Worst case scenario

[cyberpsycho]

What if you dont accept the letter? Dont do anything, and Dave gets judgement. What will happen? How can he collect? Can they guaranshee your wages? Also in court how can he prove much the damages are? Most courts want proof of the amout of damages.

[seymour_teevee]

Worst case scenario? As long as DirecTV can show through receipts (postal registered or certified mail receipts are accepted by the courts) that they attempted reasonable means to present a demand letter to you, it matters not one whit whether you accepted the letter or not. A court summons would be served personally and the server will dog you until it's served. If you don't show, DirecTV automatically prevails. They don't have to prove anything if you or your representative is not in court. All they have to do is have their lawyer show up in court. Instant judgment. Of course, this cuts both ways. If you show, and DirecTV's representative doesn't, you win. Do you feel, lucky? Presuming DirecTV wins, though, guarensheeing your wages would definitely be an option. So would a mechanics' lien on your real and personal property. But, don't worry. The loss of your car may not be too great an inconvenience since many employers just terminate an employee rather than go through the paperwork hassle of a guarenshee. And, there are always privately run charitable homeless shelters for you and your family. Fortunately, debtors' prisons fell out of favor in the last half of the nineteenth century when the legislative bodies realized that people could be ruined very effectively without incurring any obligation to feed, house, and provide even minimal health care for them at state expense. Enlightened social progressism at its finest.

[cyberpsycho]

You answered the first part of my question but hoy does the judge decide the amout of damages without proof of use?

[seymour_teevee]

Actually I did, but to re-hash: if you or your representative do not to show up on the date of your civil hearing, a summary judgment for whatever amount that DirecTV requested is entered against you. As I stated, they have no burden of proof for anything in that case.

[Dean_M_Love]

you are actually incorrect seymour (once again).

though they may get a default judgement, they DO still have to provide evidence to support their claim for the amount.

that is done through a seperate hearing, and in some jurisdictions you must be served with notice of default judgement BEFORE they can set a hearing to determine damages.

[gunsmoke2]

you are actually incorrect seymour (once again)


Ya that's not too hard to miss ;)


Losing your car.. mechanic lien on your property.. guarensheeing your wages.. homeless shelters..


What a good job your doing :D You forgot to mention permanent emotional stress resulting in loss of hair and teeth ;)


Now for a reality check.. in one case DTV offered to settle with returned of illegal equipement.. signed agreement to never pirate again and pay a $1,000 fine. This defendent had been a customer of DTV which was taken into consideration.


GS2

[seymour_teevee]

The topic was, "Worst case scenario" in which the demand letter was ignored as was the summons. Reality check: In the U.S. (where you two don't live) the summary judgment is for the full amount requested by the plaintiff if the defendant's a no-show in civil court. I sat as a juror on a civil case in which the defendant didn't show less than a year ago. Once it became apparent that the defendant was MIA, the judge thanked the jury for its time and awarded the plaintiff the whole enchilada.

[gunsmoke2]

So you base your conclusion on one case in one state that you sat as a juror


Figures


GS2

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

Worse case scenario! Seymour_teevee becomes GS2's attorney! he! he!
Actually, I'm still have trouble understanding that everything is based on a piece of paper, isn't that kind of a "reverse-onus" issue. Do not they have to proof without a shadow of a doubt that one is quilty, in a Court of Law [or, does DAVE own them too!]?

[EUGENE1]

Actually worst case scenario is DAVE makes you watch tvland reruns 24 hours a day. HE HE!!

Basically if its a first offence you most likely will get what Gunsmoke quoted.

Chill its only pirated TV ...world is gone nuts real crimes like murder and rapes are going on and this crazy world wants to put people in jail for stealing tv signals??.

Same old story... the rich want it all and want to see the poor buried.:confused: :confused: :Z

[gunsmoke2]

Worse case scenario! Seymour_teevee becomes GS2's attorney!


What a scary thought.. :eek: I rather plead no contest



GS2

[gunsmoke2]

Basically if its a first offence you most likely will get what Gunsmoke quoted.


To clarify I am just quoting what someone posted on another forum. This is civil proceedings so there is no first offence or criminal record. I assume the $1,000 fine is the settlement that DTV wants if this person agrees.


Here is his post:


I just got a certified letter from Dave's Attorneys saying business records were surrendered that showed I received illegal theft equipment (big long letter saying I'm in trouble). They said at the end since I'm a long standing and current customer with them they will let me only pay a fine of $1000.00 and hand over all equipment and illegal cards and a written statement that I will not ever have these cards again.
Has anyone received one of these letters and what did you do? It said if I ignore the letter they will initiate legal proceedings. What can they do to me? How can they prove I did anything? Help please, I only have 14 days to do anything about it.



I can't vouch for this post but the $1,000 if true does not even cover their ( DTV ) legal expense. If the funds are available I would fight this based on been a long standing paying current customer.. lack of evidence.. and that I caused no financial damages to DTV since I am a current paying customer.


GS2

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

Now that's legal wisdom! I respect a man who knows the Law. - eh!
So, anyone else who has serious DAVE legal issues, just ask GunSmoke2.
[No, pun; nor, smart-ass remarks intented here GS2.]
Yes, seymour_teevee you can ask GS2, too!

[cyberpsycho]

Seymour_teevees did you ever think of applying for a job for dave? you couldnt be a better advocate!

[homesli]

I don't know what Dave can do to you for signal piracy, but it couldn't be much worse than sitting here reading Seymour's idiotic posts.

"....whats that judge? 10 to 15 for signal theft or spend a day with Seymour? hows the food in jail?....."

-- homesli

[To The Real King!!]

Hi EUGENE1

Actually you should NOT minimize this because theft is theft. The real point is that this supposed theft is NOT proven by any invoice. But you too cyberpsycho are presenting a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE suggestion.

Certainly anyone who becomes a defendant in one of these cases needs to contact a lawyer and follow his advice if its reasonable. And that does NOT include minimizing the claim or accepting it as fact of any theft. This is simple financial TERRORISM buy a BULLY company who hope people will cave in and pay off. Anyone who have any reasonable defence will win the case since an invoice proves only that someone made an invoice. It provides NO PROOF of any wrongdoing. Any lawyer will tell you that right off the bat.

A defendant has the right to depose the plaintiff to understand what his proof consists of. Its a DISCOVERY process and takes place BEFORE any trial.

A smart lawyer will show them up to have nothing inculpating at all even though they will bull---- about the only purpose of an Unlooper being for illegal purpose. That's CRAP.

I have a friend who buys receivers and Access cards at garage sales and Flea markets for a pittance and removes any illegal programming and or Unloops cards making them fit for sale. He does not even have a system but has made plenty of bucks with this hobby over the last few years, simply buying, fixing and selling at multiples of his buying price.

There is absolutely NO LAW against doing this and in fact its one of the very popular ways to make a buck today. These flea markets and Garage sales have an enormous following and thousands make great money by buying and selling just about anything. Satellite equipment is just another way to turn a buck LEGALLY.

People DO NOT give in to DirecTV® 's ECONOMIC TERRORISM and do defend you rights. These people are as bad as "Bin hidin" and his cavemen. Their letters are full of crap and not worth the paper they are written on as any good lawyer will tell you
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[cyberpsycho]

I am sure in a perfect world everone would have the means and courage
to do just what you suggested.But the reality of it is some people
will not have the money to hire a lawer or just ignore it in hopes it will go away.
That is why I started this post.

99% of the lawers make the rest look bad!

[To The Real King!!]

Hi cyberpsycho,

Well if you look at it that way, a person who has little or no property (house, car, belongings) has little to lose.

Even if they get a big judgement then you go bankrupt if you have no property to lose.

They are going after the masses and most people over 25 (and many under that age) have plenty to lose and therfore need to fight them but those who don't have much to lose really dont have anything to worry about. Often they don't have DSS TV either :)

They can garnish wages and seize property with a court judgement but thats about it. most jurisdictions wont allow them to garnish if that does not leave adequate wages to live on but that type of scenario varies from state to state and no overall answer can be given. Again you pretty much have to check with a lawyer to find out your rights in your jurisdiction or go to the court house or library and study the law..

So the worst case scenario will vary widely depending on the laws in each jurisdiction and what property a person owns.

If a suit is NOT defended (which you suggest) the court will usually grant the full damages the plaintiff has asked for and they do not need any proof. They will get a DEFAUT JUDGEMENT.

I wish everyone the best of luck on thathttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
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[gunsmoke2]

you go bankrupt


You can name DTV as a creditor that you can't pay. However DTV would have a right to examine it.



GS2

[bigcountry]

TTRK and all who tell people to fight this but how much money do you think it would cost someone to pay a lawyer and get a expert witness to fight this?

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Bigcountry,

Its not quite that simple and many of you seem to be missing the point. People who made deals usually had to take a full sub and pay them a couple of thousand dollars or more as can be seen here:

http://www.legal-rights.org/docketaug.html

Read the damn things and you will see what p r i c k s they are.

I go to a LOT of trouble to post this stuff for you all to read and be informed but I really wonder if anyone bothers :)

They pre sign you up, as part of the deal, to pay them between $100,000.00 and $500,000.00 if they EVER catch you in the future. That is part of the deal. Its a PRE-AGREED JUDGEMENT for the future. Look at 301 for $447,500 or 311 for $145,000.00 for example. Those are PRE agreed entitlements for PERMANENT injunctions. Anyone who signs that is as crazy as a coot.

What is it worth to not have that hanging over your head.

So you probably wont save any money (depends on your lawyer) but once you get one the chances of them going through with it are much lower. If they KNOW you are well defended they will be much more reticent to actually go to court with it.

Once these B A S T A R D S get any admission they will hound you to the DEATH. As I have said many times, these are NOT fine folks but rather the dirtiest ****ers you can imagine or WORSE.

So its not just a matter of a few bucks more or less this way or that. They want your ass in a NOOSE.

This is VASTLY more serious than most people seem to realize and you can clearly see what the ramifications of making a deal are. I have posted several dockets now for all to see. All you have to do is READ THEMhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Oh and if you have nothing NOW, dont let that bother you. They will get a permenent injunction and if they cannot collect now, they will appear in 10 years when YOU ARE successful and DO have something to lose. Then you are fuc k e d!!! These are BAD ASSES guys, VERY bad asses.
A Happy, Healthy and Prosperous NEW YEAR to ALL!
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[EUGENE1]

Dave knows you cant fight back and he is counting on that. He knows laywers cost big big money. If you have to hire a lawyer here in Ontario it will cost minimum 1500 dollars for simple charges. If it needs to go to trial most lawyers will charge a grand per day.

Also apart from lawyers making all the money the court system works much like your local hair salon. Cases are all stacked. That means you will lose work days by constant pre trials and continuations before you ever get to your actual trial.

Its all a god damned joke!!!

[Evildss]

US sucks for that reason, anyone can sue anyone for stupid sh*t.
Everyone getting accused should ban their resources together, put up a legit fight! Start a petition, website, or some kind of organization, to protect your rights! Hopefully Canada can prevent this type of hidden democratic communism....:confused:

[hien122]

For those that received the letter:

If you go to trial, say that you bought the equipment and planned to hack DTV but decided that it was not worth the risk (due to recent busts/arrests). You then emailed the supplier of your unlooper/emu/bl and asked if you could return the item but never got a reply or was denied a refund. It is now up to DAVE to prove that you did hack their system and received free programming.

[gunsmoke2]

I'm sure these posts are made with good intentions but honestly no lawyer would advise you to lie or make up stories.


GS2