Sign letter or not?

[hien122]

If and when the cetified letter should come my way, should I sign for it or say that the person doesn't live here? Can dave get judgement if the paper was never served?
Thanks

[Lager]

If you are in the states.....When the postal carrier brings it to your door (anything certified) ask to see it. If it is not something you are expecting then decline delivery and write MOVED/NO FORWARD on it. You have to be served in a legal manner in order to become a defendant in a lawsuit such as this. IF Dave wants to get all pissy about it then they will actually pay a process server to come serve you papers, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Lager

[seymour_teevee]

Whether or not DirecTV can get a judgment depends on how much and of what quality evidence their lawyers can present. And the vagueries of a jury's mindset. If it's a civil case seeking restitutution and/or damages, it requires a "preponderance of evidence", and if a jury trial, a simple majority of the jurrors. If it's a criminal trial, the burden of proof is greater, requiring "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt", and if a jury trial, a unanimous vote to bring in a decision. Given the lesser burden of proof for a civil case, it doesn't take rocket science to predict which path DirecTV will pursue. As to signing for "The Letter", it doesn't really matter. It's only a "demand" letter summarizing your alleged infraction and setting forth the plaintiff's desired remedy. Your denial of the terms or refusal to accept it carries no weight or legal hoop jumping whatsoever regarding the plaintiff's right to proceed to trial. All that's required for DirecTV to proceed to trial is to show the court by documentary evidence that they at least tried to contact you with the demand letter. The plaintiff gets a preliminary receipt from the post office for certified or registered mailings and the mail carrier's initials that "The Letter" could not be delivered to or was refused by the addressee at his last known residence of record is accepted by the courts that there was a good faith attempt to deliver the damand letter. If DirecTV feels their case is weak, they may well decide to let the matter drop. At least until or unless subsequent events or evidence implicates you further - you'd need to check with a lawyer regarding the statute of limitations. However, if they're comfortable with the evidence they have against you and wish to proceed to trial, subsequent communication in the form of a court summons WILL be legally delivered by a summons process server (either a civilian professional, or if necessary, a uniformed officer with citation/arrest authorization) charged with tracking down the defendant. Refusal at this point is NOT an option unless you relish subjecting yourself to a fine and/or perhaps cooling your heels for several hours in a police station holding cell until you or your lawyer convince yourself of the folly of your stubborness. Refusing to accept a summons is roughly analogous to refusing to accept a speeding citation. You're not admitting any guilt by accepting either - merely agreeing to participate in the legal proceedings being brought against you. If you subsequently fail to appear for your own trial date, a summary default judgment will be entered on behalf of the plaintiff against you, and like the speeding citation analogy, carries the prospects that the penalty will be harsher than if you and/or your counsel elected to show and argue your side of the case.

[morgana]

Now I want people to take a close look at what Seymoreteevee has said. It pretty much sums up the DTV stance to all of this. Now why is that? Well I will not try to make any decisions for you, here is some other things though that he has not said.

1/DTV has shown that they are maliciously proceeding with these actions when they really know they do not have much hope of winning them. This should leave the door open for people to get a large class action suit against DTV.

2/You should have your lawyer check with all the proceedings still pending in your state and apply to have it heard as a class action. This will then also make DTV have pay some very large costs when they fail to win their actions.

3/Have your lawyers file grievences with all state bar associations against all the lawyers and law firms who have helped bring this malicious prosecution to the courts.

4/Get as much publicity that you can about large companies trying to strong arm the little guy. Stock holders do not like these events and they tend to react fast and furious to them.

5/Never believe anything DTV has to say to you. Act in accordance to the law, if you are served and seek lawyers before you do anything and never talk to DTV. Let your lawyer do that.

[Kuni]

I don't know much about unloopers, but if these things have "any" other use than Daves Cards then I would say that is what I use it for. I.e. I bought it to fix the Access Card for my Tool shed. I know a lame excuse, but they have to prove that u are using it on their Cards. Say that your cousin in Bangladesh had you order it for him. Deny everything, tell them it broke and you threw it out. You get the idea I hope. Then sue for harassment.

Nuff said.

[Lager]

seymour

A good faith attempt at notification? Sorry but it doesn't work that way. IF they actually want to sue you then they have to serve you in a legal manner. The ONLY 'good faith attempt' that counts in the eyes of the court is if they were to take out an ad in 3 area newspapers where you live and publish the fact that they are serving you notice. If the court accepted people saying, we tried real hard but never did catch him at home then we wouldn't need people licensed as process servers. While it does vary from state to state there are basic rules of service for everyone. The idea of marking mvd/no fwd on the original demand letter is to force Dave's hand. If every person that got the letter did that then Dave would actually have to pay out of pocket to have process servers attempt to serve each of those people if they wanted to take them to court. If you sign for the first letter then they at least know you still live there and would be an easy target to serve. Thinking you had moved will increase the cost as they will have to pay someone to find you prior to attempting service. The rest of your post was so far ahead of the original question asked that I will simply ignore it. Again, nice idea on the good faith thing but it is 500% wrong.

Lager

[BubbaHill]

Originally posted by hien122
If and when the cetified letter should come my way, should I sign for it or say that the person doesn't live here? Can dave get judgement if the paper was never served?
Thanks

Well, if you are single, and live with your parents, or some guys, and don't get any utilities bills at that address with your name on them.
You can proberly get away with that trick, and most likely you will never hear from them again. I'm sure there are many that have moved
since they purchase these toy's.

[hien122]

Well, I moved when I graduated from college. All the bills are under my parent's names. The only stuff I get are bank statements and junk mail.

Thanks for all inputs.

[seymour_teevee]

Lager, re-read my post. You're confusing the requirements of processing and delivering a demand letter with that of an actual court summons. Before a summons is authorized by the court (and THAT does require a formal legal serving of the defendant as you correctly stated and I also outlined), an attempt to contact the defendant with a demand letter must be made. If successful and a mutually agreeable resolution can be arranged between the two parties, or their representatives, the court is delighted since it doesn't have to further involve itself. Failing that, or inability to actually verify that the defendant accepted the demand letter is NOT grounds to suspend further legal action against the defendant in a civil case. As you also correctly pointe out, if the plaintiff wants a defendant in court badly enough, he WILL be there or face a summary judgment in favor of the plaintiff. Again, a documented good faith attempt by the plaintiff to serve the demand letter is all that's required for the court to advance to the next step: a summons. And, again as I outlined, THAT will be done by whatever considerable legal means are necessary and at the court's disposal. Anyone who believes that refusing to accept the initial demand letter absolves himself of facing his day in court is delusional. Our past and present elected legislators weren't/aren't that stupid. The question really boils down to whether a potential defendant is comfortable with the cloud of legal action hanging over him for the duration of the statute of limitations. There could be several years of unguarded and optomistic calm before someone answers the door, or his boss excorts a process server to his cubicle, one fine day and is handed a summons. My standing advice is do NOT play games where the threat of legal action is concerned. Just accept the damned letter and make an appointment with a trusted lawyer (who's really going to need to see the letter anyway) to discuss the available options as soon as possible.

[gunsmoke2]

Before a summons is authorized by the court (and THAT does require a formal legal serving of the defendant as you correctly stated and I also outlined), an attempt to contact the defendant with a demand letter must be made.


A demand letter must be made ? where do you come up with this seymour ? where is this written seymour ?


Again, a documented good faith attempt by the plaintiff to serve the demand letter is all that's required for the court to advance to the next step


Again ? why ? :R


GS2

[gunsmoke2]

FYI Seymour so you don't have to be corrected so many times. :R


The Litigation Process


A - Summons & Complaint



Summons - A Writ notifying the defendant that suit has been filed against them. This Writ is accompanied by a copy of the Complaint.

Complaint - Sometimes called a Petition, the Complaint is the first pleading on the part of the Plaintiff. Each complaint must contain or specify:

The name of the court in which action is brought, establishing the proper jurisdiction.
Title of the cause of action:
money due on open account
money due on Promissory note
money due on contract
repossession or replevin of merchandise
foreclosure on real estate
Correct legal name of Plaintiff and Defendant.
Concise statement of the facts constituting a cause of action with each allegation distinctly numbered.
Demand for the relief sought by Plaintiff.


B- Service



The summons & complaint is served to the debtor either by mail or in person via a Sheriff's or Baliff's office.

Personal Service vs. Personal Delivery - Some jurisdictions require personal service on the debtor. This means that the summons & complaint must be hand delivered to the debtor. Other jurisdictions only require personal delivery, where the summons & complaint can be left at the premises with a person of suitable age and responsibility.





*****I hope this helps ya.. there is no requirement for a demand letter and in some jurisdictions the summons can be left at the premises with a person of suitable age and responsibility.


While it is thoughtful of you seymour to write such lenghly detailed explaination posts it would be nice though if you had the correct details :R


GS2

[Lager]

Lager, re-read my post. You're confusing the requirements of processing and delivering a demand letter with that of an actual court summons.

-There is no such things as a requirement for a demand letter. You don't have to notify someone that you intend to sue them in any way. You can simply file the complaint with the court and they simply stamp a copy for you to serve on the defendent. You can sue anyone in the states for any reason. If I don't like the color of your shirt I can have you served and ask for remedy (what could also be called a demand). My idea of remedy could be that you burn the shirt or pay me cash to go out and have a round with my pals with your cash. The court would likely not grant me a remedy, but you would have to file a defense.

-Again, there is no kind of restriction, process, procedure or method required to send someone a demand letter.

Before a summons is authorized by the court (and THAT does require a formal legal serving of the defendant as you correctly stated and I also outlined), an attempt to contact the defendant with a demand letter must be made.

-No it doesn't. Trust me on this one, I used to serve papers for a living during a 5-6 year period of my life, and it is not that far removed. There is simply no reason to even bother with a demand letter if you think you are going to win. People use demand letters soley to get you to do something without a fight and it has no legal meaning at all.

If successful and a mutually agreeable resolution can be arranged between the two parties, or their representatives, the court is delighted since it doesn't have to further involve itself.

-The thing a demand letter concerns the court with is if the person sending it can both prove that the party they sent it to recieved it and then it ONLY shows that they were willing to try and work something out. Legally it means zip. It is just something that helps the judge think you are trying to keep the legal system less burdened.

Failing that, or inability to actually verify that the defendant accepted the demand letter is NOT grounds to suspend further legal action against the defendant in a civil case.

-You are missing my original point. Dave is sending these letters out to make people agree to something that might or not be a valid arguement on Dave's behalf. MY point is that if you don't sign for it and mark the letter moved/no forward, Dave is NOT going to pursue it further. If Dave thinks you have moved they are not going to pay someone like me 100-150 dollars to tell them where you live. Then they get to pay a process server 10-15 bucks per document served (likely 3-4 per person based on what they would be asking you to do in the papers you are served.) Then of course since the law allows for it, they will also be charged 4-6 bucks per mile one way to the courthouse from the location the person was served. (oh yeah, all numbers are based on the state in which I reside) Now, with the costs in mind, imagine Dave going through with this for tens of thousands of people per month???? I don't think so. More likely Dave is going to ignore the guy with no forwarding address because of the costs involved and the small likelyhood they would win at trial.

As you also correctly pointe out, if the plaintiff wants a defendant in court badly enough, he WILL be there or face a summary judgment in favor of the plaintiff. Again, a documented good faith attempt by the plaintiff to serve the demand letter is all that's required for the court to advance to the next step: a summons.

-Honestly buddy, there is no need to prove to the court that you did anything in anyway to settle it out of court. Goto the small claims court in your local city and you will find out that 10-20 dollars from your pocket will get you a ready to serve summons on anyone who's name you write in for any action you claim they perpertrated against you. If you don't care if your papers ever get served the county law enforcement apparatus where you live (Sheriff, Constable, Justice of the Peace, Parish (if you live in LA)) will charge you much less, likely around 25 dollars to make three attempts at service.


And, again as I outlined, THAT will be done by whatever considerable legal means are necessary and at the court's disposal. Anyone who believes that refusing to accept the initial demand letter absolves himself of facing his day in court is delusional.

-You are really confused here. I can't repeat it enough that a demand letter means NOTHING to a court. I also never claimed it absolved you from anything by not signing for it.

Our past and present elected legislators weren't/aren't that stupid.

-I would be willing to debate that :)

The question really boils down to whether a potential defendant is comfortable with the cloud of legal action hanging over him for the duration of the statute of limitations.

-Not really. In this particular case it boils down to the idea that Dave is or is not willing to shell out money to pursue a case they cannot and will not win the first time someone goes to trail

There could be several years of unguarded and optomistic calm before someone answers the door, or his boss excorts a process server to his cubicle, one fine day and is handed a summons. My standing advice is do NOT play games where the threat of legal action is concerned. Just accept the damned letter and make an appointment with a trusted lawyer (who's really going to need to see the letter anyway) to discuss the available options as soon as possible.

-Do you work for Dave or something? You are making this out to be some grand issue and it is nothing. I have normally only skimmed your posts but I will pay more attention in the future. I have a strong idea you are affiliated with Dave.


Lager

[seymour_teevee]

Originally posted by Lager
"...-There is no such things as a requirement for a demand letter."

Now we're finally getting somewhere. Both you and GS2 are wrong insofar as U.S. courts in most (all?) jurisdictions are concerned. And this is true for both small claims as well as general civil cases. Ergo, DirecTV's demand letters going out to suspected U.S. pirates. Since DirecTV is offering to settle for well under the $5,000.00 maximum for a small claims case in at least some cases, a small claims court summons would certainly be an option to them, too. Oh, I DID check my information, but I doubt that makes any difference to either of you - especially when you've both at different times interjected the implication or outright accusation that I'm affiliated in some way with DirecTV when you've been otherwise unable to argue the actual "merits" of your position effectively. In any event, you may both have the final words on this matter as attempting to explain anything to either of you is proving to be an exercise in futility. Enjoy your hollow "victory", gentlemen. Obviously this unresolved court protocol issue will hurt neither of you, nor me. But, what about the people struggling with the prospect or the arrival of, "The Letter"?

[Lager]

-Ok, maybe you are not affiliated with Dave. That only leaves the option that you like to talk about things you have no knowledge of.

Now we're finally getting somewhere. Both you and GS2 are wrong insofar as U.S. courts in most (all?) jurisdictions are concerned.

_Yes, my information is both correct and factual and yours is something you are making up as you go. Show me where my information is wrong. Bow out of this topic now and don't ever pretend to know what you are talking about again, or simply put up the information now.

And this is true for both small claims as well as general civil cases. Ergo, DirecTV's demand letters going out to suspected U.S. pirates. Since DirecTV is offering to settle for well under the $5,000.00 maximum for a small claims case in at least some cases, a small claims court summons would certainly be an option to them, too.

-Of course you understand that with Dave using lawyers to send these letters out as well as pursue the couple of people they have sued that small claims court is NOT an option for them. Lawyers do not participate on behalf of a 3rd party in small claims actions.

Oh, I DID check my information, but I doubt that makes any difference to either of you -

-By all means, tell me WHERE you checked your information. *I* have checked mine because I am IN the industry. I work with both petitioners and defendants on a daily basis. I testify in court numerous times a month for both sides depending on who I think is right.

especially when you've both at different times interjected the implication or outright accusation that I'm affiliated in some way with DirecTV when you've been otherwise unable to argue the actual "merits" of your position effectively.

Please go back and read what I have stated in prior posts on this matter. If my listing out the way the legal system works in the states and including things like costs involved is not arguing merits then you need to go back to school. You continue to just preach bad information and don't back it up. I will fully apologize as soon as you show me where I am wrong and you are correct. This means pointing me to a refrence where I and everyone else can tell you are right. It doesn't exisit, you are wrong, wrong and wrong.

In any event, you may both have the final words on this matter as attempting to explain anything to either of you is proving to be an exercise in futility. Enjoy your hollow "victory", gentlemen.

-There is nothing hollow in being right. There is no victory unless the uninformed such as yourself learn anything. You talk about your debating this being an excersise in futility but you haven't cited ONE factual piece of information aside from agreeing with a couple of my points. PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE GETTING YOUR INFORMATION.


Obviously this unresolved court protocol issue will hurt neither of you, nor me. But, what about the people struggling with the prospect or the arrival of, "The Letter"?

-If you are struggeling with the concept of getting a meaningless piece of paper in your mail box then you are wound too tight and should take a break. It's put up or shut up time pal.


Lager

[gunsmoke2]

Now we're finally getting somewhere. Both you and GS2 are wrong insofar as U.S. courts in most (all?) jurisdictions are concerned


No seymour the only one who is wrong and misinforming people are you. You do not have to send out a demand letter and you can simply file an action without doing so ( sending out a demand letter )


Its so basic seymour and if you want to pretend otherwise it only reflects on your creditbility of believeing what you say.


A demand letter is done in hopes of stradegy that the receiver will comply as DTV hopes for. Strong cases don't require a demand letter and I personally skipped that myself and filed suit in Conn to let the defendant know I meant buisness and wasn't in the mood for playing around.


GS2

[BubbaHill]

Lager,
The post you made above, was the best I have ever seen.
It was worth every dollar I paid to join the Pirates Den.
Keep up the good work, and I will look for all your post.
Thank You!:)

[Lager]

Thanks. I don't post here much and very rarely in this section. There are others here with far more knowledge than myself. I just happen to know about this specific topic first hand and don't like to see scare mongers spreading misinformation. Being a member will give you more value than my one decent post in 140something :)

Lager

[gunsmoke2]

Since DirecTV is offering to settle for well under the $5,000.00 maximum for a small claims case in at least some cases



Seymour aren't you aware that some states.. counties.. the maxium is as low as $2,000.00 for small claim cases.. Geez you live in the states and you try to project yourself as some sort of legal begal of US law..

For some counties in NY state

The maximum amount you can sue for in Small Claims Court is $3,000.00.


What does it matter if they offer to settle out of court on amounts less then small claims courts. ? Seymour it really only matters when they actually file a suit specifing what damages they seek.. and how they suffered as a result of the defendent's actions.. will they convince the court that defendent would have been a paying sub ? paid for DTV Platium for five years ? or will it be for the free to air programming that's available ?


You make it sound like DTV is so nice by offering to settle for well under $5,000.00.. what a bargain is what you are trying to say ?


:R



GS2

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Folks,

In order to make this clear and in simple language what this letter is, is exactly the following.

It is a B U L L S H I T LIARS intimidation BULLY letter that DirecTV® sends to anyone whose name they get through lawful seizure in the USA of a dealer or that they obtain as STOLEN PROPERTY (a crime in itself to possess stolen property) or through illegal and improper means of obtaining information through unscrupulous lawyers or other people. They don't care HOW they get the info but if they get your name they will likely send you this vastly exaggerated LYING and BULLYING INTIMIDATING letter. They really have NO IDEA of whether or not you did anything illegal and they just state that you did to SCARE YOU.

Why? Well that's obvious. Its in the HOPE that you will be intimidated enough to burst out with a confession and they don't care whether you REALLY did anything illegal as some may have done or DID NOT DO THAT at all. If you are willing to confess and cut a deal because you are intimidated with the court system that they threaten to use, that is FINE with them.

But alas, in all cases where mega-corporations threaten the little guy who does NOT have unlimited money, it is still necessary to contact a lawyer to advise you on HOW to defend your rights especially when you have done nothing wrong even though they state totally without any evidence and in thousands of cases that they really know NOTHING about, that you committed illegal acts.

And if you DID commit an illegal act it may be more important to have a lawyer you can trust to act on your behalf.

Just LOOK at the type of letter they send which all generally follow this type of thinking and style. Not only do they send this "intimidation threatening letter" but they throw in a sample lawsuit for EFFECT and some people think its a real lawsuit because they do not understand LAW or LEGALESE. But its NOT a LAWSUIT folks its just what they THREATEN, and worth jack s h i t.

http://www.legal-rights.org/newwilsonlettertxtNONAMES.html

But people should realize that it needs to be shown to their lawyer who will then advise you what your rights are and what action YOU can take.

Many people who do NOT even have a dish have received this letter and I would LOVE to know HOW a person without a satellite system (which go up and come down in an hour) could POSSIBLY steal Satellite TV. Talk about an outrageous LIE!!!

What an outrageous ideahttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
A Happy, Healthy and Prosperous NEW YEAR to ALL!
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Thanks & Good Luck,

To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
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[Evildss]

TTRK speaks the truth! Also, after these greedy people start losing enough cases, they might start to reconsider.....and a little publicity would probably hurt them bad...;) the public don't like helping big corporations that pick on the little hard working american.....few newspaper articles and a little air time would probably HURT........:)

[Iceman2367]

$1500 in local here, been there done that.