DTV Letter from Greer, Herz & Adams, L.L.P.

[mustang]

Got a letter from these lawyers in Galveston, TX, regarding "unauthorized puplication and use of satellite broadcast communications distributed by DTV." It was dated Jan.17, 2002. Has anyone resolved successfully to this kind of letter in the past and how? I was going to call them and tell them that I don't have any of these illegal equipments in my possesion and I'm not illegally watching DTV. Any thoughts on this?

[stlvillain]

When you find out PM me and let me know....

[phoztech]

dont ignore this letter... get an attorny (possibly a friend or family member) to write a letter back sayign that their is no merit to this claim and that you will see them in court if they chose to take you there...
they wont take you to court then and it will end their harassment of you.

[seymour_teevee]

Did you, or anyone acting in your behalf (regardless whether you assigned permission), sign for the letter, or was it a normal mailing? If you do consult an attorney (definitely recommended), show him the letter or a photocopy. (Believe it or not, the mere possession of that letter is as much for your protection as it is for DirecTV's advantage. At least your attorney will have some place from which to start.) Figure it this way: regardless of DirecTV's intent regarding actual legal action in your case, the fact that their lawyers are involved has already put you at a disadvantage. It would be presumptuous to asssume you'll be able to outmaneuver them on your own, and they have at least several years of statute of limitations time to maneuver in.

[gunsmoke2]

I don't think personally you should ignore the letter and you should contact a lawyer before you respond to the letter if you are going to...


GS2

[GhostDog]

Originally posted by mustang
I was going to call them and tell them that I don't have any of these illegal equipments in my possesion and I'm not illegally watching DTV. Any thoughts on this?

Not a good idea... by opening the lines of communication you are red flagging yourself... the truly 'innocent' would just laugh and throw the letter out...

Dime

[mustang]

Dime, thanks but no thanks. I was unaware of the letter's intention and content. It could be anything. That's the reason why I accepted it.

[BubbaHill]

If you call them, you're just making things worst.
No matter what you tell them, their not going to believe you.
This letter is to scare you, that's all. I got one last
month from the same lawyers, I say piss on them.
I have not seen 1 case that they have won, except for a few,
who did admit to something.
They are not going to waste their time in court.
Don't be Intimidated, just wait,
and see how far they will go.
Why waste your money on a lawyer at this stage.
Just a scare letter. If they had enough on you,
and a good case, they would'nt send you a warning letter.
Do you think Dave is going to take about 1/2 million
people to court.

[mustang]

BubbaHill,

Thanks for the comforting advice. Please keep me posted when you hear back from them.

[aunt bea]

Mustang, first off please go speak to a lawyer. There are really 2 parts to this letter, and if there are any lawyers present here please correct me. Don't let them think that by pleading ,"guilty", they will slap you on the wrist with a small fine. It might release you from civil litigation but not from criminal litigation. And that is what they want. If you want to open a dialogue with them, do it through an attorney. Your really setting yourself up by confessing. Don't be scared, just get some real legal advice.

[BubbaHill]

Originally posted by aunt bea
Mustang, first off please go speak to a lawyer. There are really 2 parts to this letter, and if there are any lawyers present here please correct me. Don't let them think that by pleading ,"guilty", they will slap you on the wrist with a small fine. It might release you from civil litigation but not from criminal litigation. And that is what they want. If you want to open a dialogue with them, do it through an attorney. Your really setting yourself up by confessing. Don't be scared, just get some real legal advice.

Aunt Bea, that is a sweet name. First of all, how do you know there are 2 parts to this letter? It might release him from civil litigations, but not from criminal litigations? Don't be scared? Why should he be scared, this is just a bull ---- letter. I got one last month. This is your 1st post. You sound like maybe, you're one of dave's lawyers? Please keep reading, these letters are all scare letters, and have no meaning what so ever. Thank's for joining the Den. I will be looking for more of your post, on legal issue.

[SavMan]

Well...I too recieved the letter the other day. There were TWO letters. One requiring a signature (Which I didn't sign for, but the mail lady left anyway...she does that for me. She's a sweetheart) and the other was regular mail.

If you DON'T respond to it (as I am going to do) it's just as bad. Legally DTV had made every effort to contact you. Thats all they have to do. Like when you throw away those collection notices, when you don't respond to them you are admitting to owing the bill.


All DTV has to do is SAY that they made every attempt to contact possible to contact you and they can continue whatever action it is that they are going to do.

I must say that I don't forsee any search warrents being issued. Why you ask? Why would they tip there hand? Sending that letter is supposed to get you to stop stealing the signal. I must say it is working, My wife has gotten all the stuff out of the house.

ohh well...it's just TV. I tried to tell her that this is all a buch of Sh\t but she won't listen. Could they file a class action lawsuit? Sure they could I guess. Will they win?? Doubt it.

I just want to know who dimmed me out? Was it the stuff I ordered a couple of weeks ago from emu-discounters or what it a programmer I bought from WhiteViper 2 years ago? Took them this long to get ahold of me??

[Evildss]

I believe the best thing to do is let a lawyer reply for you and request this so called information they have obtained. As TTRK says, an invoice is just not gonna get it, but your confession will....
Most likely the WhiteViper purchase got you in trouble--they and Vector turned over their data! Curious, did anyone request that WhiteViper destroy their info after a purchase???? If so, have you gotten a letter? An acquaintance I converse with on occassion, purchased from WhiteViper 2 years ago and specifically requested all info of his purchase be destroyed because he was not interested in a refund if merchandise was faulty(think he ordered a programmer for his brother-in-law). They replied and said, no problem, it will be destroyed??....interesting, huh?

[BubbaHill]

Originally posted by mustang
BubbaHill,

Thanks for the comforting advice. Please keep me posted when you hear back from them.

mustang,
Thats the end to this scare letter. Only those who call them,
will have problems. Most of this stuff coming from texas,
is about white viper, and the purchase of a programer,
and this is not illegal to own. I know so many people who
got these letters, the ones who call, are in deep ----,
the ones who don't, never hears from them again.
If you live in Texas, this may be a problem. They have
tried to scare these people with a sample law suit,
just to scare them into paying about 3 thousand bucks.
mustang, as long as we have fool's to call them back,
that means they have less time to think about us.

[BubbaHill]

I know when your wife saw this letter, she was upset,
and did the right thing, get those toys out of the house.
If your carrier sign this, and left this in your mail box,
there is no proof you receive this letter, she could have
put it in the wrong box! No, carrier is authorize to sign
for a letter, for one of there customers! This is a big NO NO
for the Postal Service. Now, her name is on the return receipt,
not yours. I got one last month, they will come for me, before
you. Please, just don't do a thing at this point. You will only
make things worst. All this is, to intimidate you,
make you scared, and say the wrong thing.
Then, they got you, it's pay up time. Also it was from white viper,
you can almost count on that. They did get busted. The programer
you bought 2 years ago, is legal.

[mustang]

Just to let y'all know that I will not waste my time to respond to the threatening letter. Why should I respond if I didn't do anything wrong? If they send me a court summon, I'll hire a lawyer.

SavMan, I have to disagree with you on responding to them at this stage. Also this is not like collection notices, which is something you definitely owe to the creditor with contractual proof.

[BubbaHill]

mustang,
You're doing the right thing! If you have more questions,
just send me a PM. Some of these guy's just never get it.
These letters, started out in August, the one's who call them
back, screw's up! After about a month you will see more post,
and will feel better. Just wait and see the February post!
You will never hear from them again. They have to many fool's
to get.

[aunt bea]

BubbaHill, thanks for the props on the nickname. No, I am not a lawyer for Dave or anyone else, just not that smart. I have seen a copy of the, "letter". Showed it to a lawyer I know and they told me about the 2 different parts, criminal and civil. I could be wrong but if the lawyers try just 1 case based on the little evidence they have, and lose, I would think it would set precedent for everyone else that recieved the letter. I really think their best hope is to get people scared and then thinking that the best way to handle this is to confess, then set them up for a criminal case using their own words to prosecute, just MHO. BTW, I can tell by the number hits on this particular subject that their might be a lot of people here that have recieved the letter. Just curious, the letter I saw said the price for retitution was for $1000.00, did anyone else who got the letter have a different price? Thanks to Pirates Den for having a forum to discuss the legal issues involved.

[BubbaHill]

They have tried to sue 80 people in California, only lost 3
because, these 3 people confess to somthing. They have no real
proof, and will not take 1/2 million people to court. If you try
to make a deal with dave, the price is between $1000 to $5000,
this is only what I have seen posted. If you get one of these scare letters,just do nothing. This is not a criminal act, for the end
user, just the big dealers.

[frankiefrog]

of the people ive talked to that got a letter dave was looking for 3grand except 1 guy i know they asked for 1grand because he was a sub in good standing (makes me laugh every time i think about that on 1 hand their accussing you of being a theif on the other hand your in good standing with dave)
i also think its funnt that according to dave the accussed people are theifs but yet he wants you as a customer as part of the deal hes cutting
anyone with any principles would want to deal with a theif would they?

[Evildss]

If you receive a letter and are a sub(on Dave's good side), just cancel and when they question why, say they are trying to sue you for something you don't have and need the extra money to pay a defense lawyer........:cool:

[alwms]

ive received a letter a few months ago called they told me i had purchased a programmer , i told them the real reason which was learnining to be a locksmith i needed it for door entry cards the lawyer ask me to call back should i call or leave it alone

[BubbaHill]

Originally posted by Evildss
If you receive a letter and are a sub(on Dave's good side), just cancel and when they question why, say they are trying to sue you for something you don't have and need the extra money to pay a defense lawyer........:cool:

You did the right thing, I also called DTV the day I got my letter,
What is this bull, I have be paying you people for over 5 years.
If I have a card, that I can get everthing free, why am I paying
you $46.00 a month. I did cancel. This is great! Everyone just do
the same.

[BubbaHill]

Originally posted by alwms
ive received a letter a few months ago called they told me i had purchased a programmer , i told them the real reason which was learnining to be a locksmith i needed it for door entry cards the lawyer ask me to call back should i call or leave it alone

Well, it's been a few months. If you call them, you're going to
open a can of worms. If they had any proof, you would have gotten
a summons by now. A programmer is legal! Thanks for this post!
We are rocking now. If any of you Guy's got a letter, don't be
afraid, to ask a question. We are all here to learn, and help
our members.

[dssjunke]

Where can I read A copy of A letter that the end users are getting?

I have looked at legal-rights.org but can not seem to find A letter recevied by A end user.
Thank You

[CARDMAN]

Search under TTRK name he has posted a ton of them here.

[bigstuff]

I posted this right after Christmas and I suppose it has gone un-noticed.

1. I got the letters
2. I had an attorney respond.
3. I have been served with a civil suit.
4. We have responded to the suit and are awaiting a reply to our request.
5. There are several other people named in the suit and I have contacted two of them. One of the defendants DID NOT RESPOND OR SIGN ANYTHING.

Those of you giving advice that DTV will not sue and it will go away are offering up some poor advice. This is America folks and I am proof that you can be sued for anything. I’m not saying they will win but who in the hell knows what any Judge will do.

I have no "card" from Vcipher, I NEVER received a receipt and I NEVER signed for ANYTHING from Vcipher. I am going to fight this and am in the process of it.

The people who ignored all this in the California court got a judgment slapped on them.

Wake up and smell the coffee people, this is not going away just yet. Yes DTV wants you to make a deal and pay them money, they are idiots! It is apparent they have to go through with these bull$hit accusations to look serious.

[seymour_teevee]

Originally posted by bigstuff
...Those of you giving advice that DTV will not sue and it will go away are offering up some poor advice. ...

Their advice is perfectly sound as it applies from Canadians to Canadians. Unfortunately too many of 'em feel inappropriately qualified to speak on behalf of U.S. legal issues to Americans.

[CaptMidnite]

I got my letter today one registered (which I did not accept) & one unregistered, I think I'll wipe my a#% with it & send it back to them.
Although the smell of sh#t probable turns Dave on. Seriously, I think this is just a scare tactic & I'm sure they will try to sue a few people to make it look legit(they will lose)I agree that taking a 1/2 million people to court is just not realistic. I,ve been threatened by worse people then this & didn't back down. I program door locks for companies & I will order as many programmers as I need.
I pay Dave every month for his B.S. overpriced subscription package now he wants to threaten me with legal action ! Dave if your reading this kiss my a#% You just try & persue any action against me & your going have one hell of a fight on your hands. I may talk to my attorney & see about filing a law suit against you for slander. In fact may be we should consider filing a class action lawsuit against Dave for falsly accusing us of signal theft, anyone interested in joining me ? Don't let these guys scare you people that's what they want. Just disregard the letter then if some sort of legal action does materialize in the future then it's time to talk to an attorney but not at this point.

[BubbaHill]

I have been keeping up with all your post.
Thanks for this up-date. Please let us know
how it turns out for you, if you do have to go
to court, and it looks like Dave is not going
to give up, hope you beat this monster. Sorry, you
have to be their test user, I know, why Me.
Please keep us posted, and good luck with this
civil suit. Just wish I could help!

[alwms]

can someone be honest with me dont have alot of money for a lawyerlike i said i could them once they told me to call back

[CaptMidnite]

alwms, Don't worry about it dude these devices have legit uses so we have the right to own them. Don't let Dave scare you & certainly don't bother to call them back !

[BubbaHill]

You already told them you were learning to be a locksmith.
I think, that was a great answer. A programer is legal.
No, don't call them back, they have probably taken your
name off their big list. Good Job!:)

[bammbamm]

A buddy of mine, bought a Bootloader online, and recently got a letter. He talked to his attourney, the atty. advised him that he shold quickly settle as he had several other clients that were bar owners that were taken to court and they ended up paying out around 3000.00 per box in their establishment. My buddy ended up paying 1500.00 for them to leave him alone, a non admission of guilt statement, and to turn over the equipment that he doesn't even have.
I have been out of the game for a while and I am wondering if his atty. gave him sound advice or not.

Bammbamm

[seymour_teevee]

Originally posted by bammbamm
A buddy of mine, bought a Bootloader online, and recently got a letter. He talked to his attourney, [who] ... advised him that he shold quickly settle... My buddy ended up paying 1500.00 for them to leave him alone... I am wondering if his atty. gave him sound advice or not.

Hard call. If your friend wasn't willing to sweat the prospect of real legal action sometime during the years-long statute of limitations, then $1,500.00 was cheap peace of mind. Had he actually had to go to court, his legal fees would have easily surpassed $1,500. Had nothing happened, obviously he'd have gotten a free pass. Just keep in mind his attorney didn't make a dime off the advice he gave. Your friend reached one of life's little forks in the road. Like Yogi Barra advised, he took it. No point second guessing now.

[gunsmoke2]

However you seem to left off a part about the bar owners


A buddy of mine, bought a Bootloader online, and recently got a letter. He talked to his attourney, the atty. advised him that he shold quickly settle as he had several other clients that were bar owners that were taken to court and they ended up paying out around 3000.00 per box in their establishment. My buddy ended up paying 1500.00 for them to leave him alone, a non admission of guilt statement, and to turn over the equipment that he doesn't even have.
I have been out of the game for a while and I am wondering if his atty. gave him sound advice or not.


Commercial establishments have been sued by DTV for other reasons. They usually have a residental agreement instead of commercial and show sports or whatever to their clients. ( copyrights infringement ) Since its mentioned $3000.00 per box in their establishment one could assume that all that was needed was to visit the establishment for proper evidence.


This is not the same at all compared with end users getting letters.


GS2

[Lager]

Commercial establishments have been sued by DTV for other reasons. They usually have a residental agreement instead of commercial and show sports or whatever to their clients. ( copyrights infringement ) Since its mentioned $3000.00 per box in their establishment one could assume that all that was needed was to visit the establishment for proper evidence.


This is not the same at all compared with end users getting letters.


GS2

*****
This is very, very correct. Being a commercial site is a whole other can of worms. Our company has done work for ESPN (Stanley Cup), Don King Productions (numerous fights), NBC (when the Olympics were PPV), NFL Sunday Ticket and several other fight promotion companies regarding this issue. We would be given a list of establishments by the client that had authorization to show the event in their place of business. We would then make a list and parcel out sections to employees to goto each bar not on the list. When you get there you note the time entered and if they are showing something they shouldn't you have to stay long enough (5 min's is minimum inside) to note an 'event specific' occurance on the screen. Something like "You are watching NFL Sunday Ticket on DTV" and note what time you observed that event. You also must note what was one just before and just after such an event. You then make note of the employees you can see with what they look like and what area of the bar they are working. Then you send it on to the client and they sue said establishments.

Now, with the letters that are going around right now from DTV. If you haven't had some stranger come over and check out your setup then I would once again ask where is the evidence of wrongdoing? If you get a letter, treat it like junk mail. If you get a certified letter I would mark mvd/no fwd and send it back. If you sign for it, then you can decide how to deal with it. Someone mentioned above that they contacted someone named in a suit that says they never recieved 'anything' regarding this. If they hadn't truely gotten 'anything' they are still not enjoined in the lawsuit. Maybe they meant they did not get a letter before they got the papers served on them (pay attention to that part Semour) which would be fine. There is no requirment for Dave to send a letter out saying they are intending to sue you. Hopefully the poster that has been served will push for a speedy trial and win this already so other people understand Dave has nothing to go on here.


Lager