Paypal Frozen

[incredible]

Mckenzie has had Paypal frozen for most sites. He sent a copy of the
judgment, & told them he would hold them Liable for any money released. If you have any money there and it is still available pull it out NOW!!!!

[denverb2b]

Hi Incredible,

How is this possible after what happened yesterday with the Injunction and all :( Are you saying all money donated is now froozen.. Man o Man

[simple]

Man....mckenzie needs to be put on a leash....a short one... and hopefully the owner of that leash yanks on it real hard from time to time so as to cause alot of discomfort.... he does not quit... I wish Eddie could sue him for alot more then just 1mil... someone should look into criminal procedings... I would love to see this ---- in jail. I have a few friends in a few jails that would be willing to do just about anything for a pack of smokes.


Simple.

[GhostDog]

i've been saying paypal sucks for awhile now!

check out this link for further info:
(please delete mods if innapropriate)

www.paypalwarning.com

[bandit73]

I noticed that a few site that had a donation button using paypal have Been taken Down today !

[SatStuffDirect]

That explains why my account has been restricted. Will the "stay injunction" get us our money back? Do we have a legal foot to stand on here?

[T Hell]

Opinion only:
Someone should send paypal the injunction and explain what he is doing is possibly illegal. That it could place paypal in a position to be sued if they act on his false and misleading statements.

[Dean_M_Love]

That certainly is no surprise, what else do you expect from a guy who will lie stone-faced to a Judge.....


Expect MORE of this kind of harassment, and especially anything that would be designed to hamper efforts to challenge the Supreme Court ruling (ie Charter ruling, Injunction etc), I heard him on the radio earlier today, saying that the injunction was gotten on an "ex-parte" basis, basically saying they said whatever was necessary to get the injunction and he wasn't there to respond....gee, sounds kind of funny coming from a guy who specializes in using ex-parte orders, and abusing them to the point of financially bludgeoning defendants into submission before the "ex-parte" order can even be challenged, by having assets seized, and accounts frozen, all supposedly for the purpose of "evidence preservation and copying".....


Trust me people, I have this guys number and I will not relent.....

He has made serious errors here in Manitoba, and by dealing with them improperly he has now potentially put his career on the line, by failing to follow the Law Societys rules and his obligations to his insurers. And I will see to it that he is made to pay for his mistakes, no matter what the cost.

[chubba]

Originally posted by T Hell
Opinion only:
Someone should send paypal the injunction and explain what he is doing is possibly illegal. That it could place paypal in a position to be sued if they act on his false and misleading statements.

Exactly !!! PAYPAL would be liable for HEAVY HEAVY damages if the case(s) go against BEV and McKenzie. If even ONE merchant went out of business because PAYPAL froze his account, the potential for civil damages would be extreme. I can't believe PAYPAL is stupid enough to fall for McKenzie's yellow-bellied, hollow rhetoric.

:(

[incredible]

We have to wait til the full charter challenge is filed.
Paypal is just taking the easiest way out.
At this point you will have to wait 6 months to get your money back!!!

[BrainDamage]

Originally posted by simple
Man....mckenzie needs to be put on a leash....a short one... and hopefully the owner of that leash yanks on it real hard from time to time so as to cause alot of discomfort.... he does not quit... I wish Eddie could sue him for alot more then just 1mil... someone should look into criminal procedings... I would love to see this ---- in jail. I have a few friends in a few jails that would be willing to do just about anything for a pack of smokes.


Simple.

Hey, BigDog4All, do you think we could borrow a leash from you? I don't know GhostDog well enough to ask. :cool:

[GhostDog]

Originally posted by GhostDog


www.paypalwarning.com

I don't think some of you really understand how paypal operates, read the horror stories at that site... when you open a paypal account you agree not to ever hold them liable for anything, and they have the right to hold your money up to 6 mos. without ANY reason. It's all in the fine print which everyone who opens an account agrees to! Call a lawyer, they will tell you that you are screwed and the only option you have is to wait 6 mos. to get your money back, and if you dont get it in 6 mos. you can proceed with legal action at that time. But for now, there is NOTHING you can do but wait it out.:o

[SatStuffDirect]

After calming down a bit ... I'm thinking on a more legal level. When I called PayPal this afternoon to get an explanation as to why my account was "restricted" the CSR on the other end started asking me questions about what I sold. I just told her that it was electronics. She told me that someone else was going to call me back.

My opinion (and that's all it is) is that whatever was sold and processed through PayPal before the ruling on Friday is a legal sale. Whatever sold after Friday would be illegal depending on what province you live in and as of today only Ontario has the stay.

I'm going to call a lawyer in the morning before this CSR calls back and see what I should do or say.

[GhostDog]

satstuffdirect, no CSR will call you back from paypal, i'd bet my bottom dollar on it, not sure who you think your dealing with but paypal dosent return calls...lol... dont waste your money on a lawyer, nothing they can do, call jacoby and meyers in NY who are suing them (class action) they will tell you your rights, which are you have no rights for 6 months at least.

[SatStuffDirect]

Funny how they were real quick to call when I withdrew $5 K in 2 days ... " Sir, is there a problem? Is there something we can do to help?" and all that polite bullsh!t. Now that they have my money, Ghost is prolly right, no return phone call for this sucker.

[GhostDog]

lol...sorry, forgot to mention, your scenerio is the ONLY time they call. They are super secretive of their phone numbers, but check out the site i posted, some nice direct lines to managers etc...

[gunsmoke2]

heard him on the radio earlier today, saying that the injunction was gotten on an "ex-parte" basis, basically saying they said whatever was necessary to get the injunction and he wasn't there to respond....


What a Putz.. it was filled against Industry Canada and the RCMP.. not BULLExpressPuke.



But he will intervene on the Charter.


If theres one thing we learned from him was filling injunctions ;)



GS2

[gunsmoke2]

To those who are not familar with wild Bill sorry you had to find out the hardway...


To those with frozen paypal accounts you'll probably need a US attorney as paypal is in the US. Wild Bill in all likelyhood said in his submission to paypal that the funds were a result of " proceeds of crime "


GS2

[SatStuffDirect]

Proceeds of crime !!! It was all legal before Fridays ruling. Wild Bill huh? First time I hear of this guy and from what I've been reading around this board ... sounds like he's not well liked.

GS - Any news on Quebec today?

[Dean_M_Love]

He also said on the radio that he would be there on Tuesday the 7th to oppose continuation of the injunction....


He also said on an earlier program that there is "nothing to the Charter, it was lost in all the lower Courts when it was raised, and I wish it would have been dealt with in the Supreme Court, because there really is nothing to it..."

[TestCardStore]

I was wondering what had happened to Paypal. Is there any grounds we can sue Mr. McKenzie on here? Harrassment? I would certainly think so if he has no proof that your Paypal account was not used for any other form of commerce, if any transaction from web sales at all went through the account, and finally if any of the items sold through Paypal are in fact illegal. Last time I checked ISO7816 was a standard, and code free devices working with smartcards are just 'ISO 7816 compliant devices' until someone does something with them. If I sold pipes would my account be suspended because someone 'may' smoke crack with it?

[GhostDog]

Originally posted by Dean_M_Love
He also said on the radio that he would be there on Tuesday the 7th to oppose continuation of the injunction....


my question is, how does he even have the right to speak at this injunction hearing? considering its against IC and the RCMP not bev..

[SatStuffDirect]

This may be or not a good idea but I'll throw it out to see if someone's interested:

I haven't been a member her for long but, I have been in this game directly or inderectly for the last 5 years and I have yet to see a forum section dedicated to dealers. While you're laughing right now I want everyone to think for a few secs. Some of you are probably thinking " wow, we'll never agree about anything" well that's just it. In another section I saw a dealer who, obviously had problems with another, set the past aside to help in this effort. Hell, I've had problems with other dealers and I'm sure there are dealers that still have problems with me but, if there was ever a time to get together and exchange ideas and help one another, that time is now. PayPal is only the first, what next, our component suppliers will be scared to ship because Wild Bill sent them a nasty letter?

Like I said, just an idea.

It's up to the site bosses to see if it'd be worthwhile.

[udaddy]

i orderd through paypal today. every thing went through, i was wondering how ordering from a site they can freeze your account? my biggest concern is the dealers rolling over and giveing up their clients.

[SatStuffDirect]

They aren't freezing customer accounts, just dealer accounts. The money isn't supposed to but, will go into the dealers account and he can't touch it. I was reading up on what Ghost posted earlier about www.paypalwarning.com , makes think now what was I doing dealing with these guys. Hind sight is always 20/20.

[TestCardStore]

A dealer class action suit could carry considerable weight, and a 'members only' dealer password locked area might be a good idea. I used my Paypal account for far more than this company.

My question is Rise, was your frozen?

[TestCardStore]

payments will no longer go into a frozen account. If you wade through the reading you will see it updated. Being accountable to the SEC has changed a lot for Paypal. I don't think legal recourse with them is a hopless as it was pre IPO.

[ssiend]

Originally posted by SatStuffDirect
They aren't freezing customer accounts, just dealer accounts. The money isn't supposed to but, will go into the dealers account and he can't touch it. I was reading up on what Ghost posted earlier about www.paypalwarning.com , makes think now what was I doing dealing with these guys. Hind sight is always 20/20.

I am more inclined to be worried about paypal releasing its records for transactions to dealers. Don't think for 1 minute that DAVE has'nt already compiled a list to go after. Injunction or not, there will be quite a few people implicated from an audit trail. This thought alone should get the people straddling the fence's attention. Just a thought.

[Simpleton]

As an aside, it is well known that the FBI work very closely with Paypal on credit card fraud. The Paypal formula is based on their ability to spot anomalies in your use patterns. The FBI is learning a lot from them. It might well be assumed that they also are capable of gathering data about a users purchases... and subsequently share that with the FBI also. Americans beware what you charge to your Paypal account. I closed mine... International Postal Money Orders only for me. I made my decision based on info gathered at:
http://paypalsucks.com/
Let the Buyer Beware!

[SatStuffDirect]

You could be right about Dave running up a list but my question would be this: How would Dave be able to determine what I sold to "Betty Boop" in Alabama? From what I can see from my PayPal records all transactions give an order number but not the contents of that order. PayPal only has the "buyer" info and order # and the amount of the transaction. Dave would have a hard time figuring out if was purchased to hack D** or Charlie. Who's to say I didn't sell Betty a JTAG cable (not illegal to sell cables, I think)? The worst they could get is a list of customers and even at that, they'd have a hell of a time convincing a judge to seize the records of PayPal without having 100% certainty that the was illegal activities being conducted.

On the other hand, if PayPal gave up the lists they'd be setting themselves for a hell of a lawsuit. All kinds of privacy and rights things to argue there.

I'm no lawyer (mom says I should've been), just my 2cents

[Simpleton]

SatStuff, In principle I agree with you. There should be plenty of safeguards in place. I am more concerned with individuals buying from a dealer and having a transfer of $ to a known dealer in their history be noted by someone in authority. You cannot assume that the US Justice department does not work tirelessly to help Dave. I have no illusions that the US is a country of freedom and law. That is only for people with lots of cash. Paypal would give a buyer up in a minute if Ashcroft yelled 9-11!

[udaddy]

i dont understand why so many sites use paypal when paypal sucks. why not use another source for transactions.

[udaddy]

if there is an injuction, wouldnt paypal be liably for lost revenue and possibley a law suit by the sites that the injuction applies too. Would it still be legal to operate as usual?

[GhostDog]

Originally posted by udaddy
i dont understand why so many sites use paypal when paypal sucks. why not use another source for transactions.


its because its tough to get a real merchant account when you are dealing with hacker products, also dealers experience chargeback levels that even when they are low, are still above what is normally accepted by a regular merchant account. But, I agree, paypal sucks...BTW... which dealer posted on the paypalsucks.com forum?:D

[GhostDog]

Originally posted by udaddy
if there is an injuction, wouldnt paypal be liably for lost revenue and possibley a law suit by the sites that the injuction applies too. Would it still be legal to operate as usual?

lol...no way, paypal isnt liable for anything at all, they can suspend you and tie up your funds without reason, its in the contract you agree to when you join.

[gunsmoke2]

I wish it would have been dealt with in the Supreme Court, because there really is nothing to it..."


What a Putz.. he argued to the supreme court that it should not allow a charter arguement to be heard in his submissions.



GS2

[To The Real King!!]

Hi People,

I just want to say that I put up the legal-rights.org website so that people in the Satellite Community could BENEFIT from things that we KNOW DO HAPPEN. It is there to help Dealers, consumers and people of any kind who are members of our Satellite Community and especially with legal issues.

One of the things I posted 6 months ago is that it was unwise to use Paypal or Credit Cards because I DO know that they cooperate.

Please read the info at:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTVBOX.html

and it has been there for over 6 months to warn of this.

The legal-rights.org website is intended to assist you with knowledge about what is happening on these issues. There is an entire section now with the latest newspaper articles on the Supreme Court issue and on the Injunctions. You can see this info at:

http://www.legal-rights.org/supremecourt/scrlist.html

and the actual Supreme Court Ruling itself is at:

http://www.legal-rights.org/SCRrulingcanam.html

With some comment and much more to come. The idea there is to explain the meaning of it and there are also sections on WHY we made the arguments we did as well as most of the original arguments that were made. I see people who comment on this now but the info on our filing was posted during the summer of last year and that was when to read our filings and make any great comments.

If you are a member of this Satellite community, The legal-rights Satellite organization is YOUR organization, there to help you, assist you with any legal issue. Its not a bad idea to drop in every couple of days to keep up with what is happening and try to SAVE some money. Much info there would cost you a fortune for a lawyer to research for you and the rulings are there for your use and that of Defendants lawyers who DO use them.

Mr. Charles Wagman who made our Injunction used the site for 75% of his research into this and he had already acted for me in the past in making a settlement with certain Police who settled with me out of Court for something. Many lawyers use the site all the time which is WHY I have prepared books of authorities and other info pertaining to our battles.

In stead of waiting until now to get hit by paypal you could have known many months ago.

McKenzie cannot be hurt by freezing accounts until the PayPal delay is over and the Injunction does noting to address this at all.

For people who STILL do not understand, it was illegal to sell DirecTV® or Satellite Decryption devices, according to last Fridays ruling, at all times from the present and going back in time to 1991 when the act was instituted. It always HAS been illegal according to the SC Ruling. I hope everyone understands that.

Even though the Appeals court in Ontario and courts in Quebec and BC and other Provinces said it was legal, the effect of the ruling is that they were WRONG. The Government can come back for three years from the day they charge you and charge you for any action you have done in the last 3 years and if they come under the Criminal Code there is NO LIMIT but it has NOT proved to be illegal under that act either yet.

So ANYONE who did what is mentioned in the RC Act is effectively guilty no matter when they did that within the prescription period of 3 years.

If we are UNABLE to have this REVERSED by PROVING the 2B argument and thus striking the law (the RC ACT) then everyone is subject to prosecution. For some reason that does not seem to have sunk in yet.

We will fight HARD for these rights and it IS of MUCH importance to both consumers and particularly DEALERS here.

We expect NEWS on the Injunction in Quebec sometime tomorrow and will report it the moment we hearhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrkblack.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,

To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
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http://www.legal-rights.org/images/lrbanner.gif
Now open with lots of useful resources at your disposal AT:
http://www.legal-rights.org

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Por favor dona para la BATALLA EN LA SUPREMA CORTE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)<-- Haz Click aqui!

[SatStuffDirect]

Here's the answer I got back from them:

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We write to inform you that, as the
result of a recent determination by the PayPal legal department, we can no longer allow the use of the PayPal service in connection with the sale of DSS descramblers, or other DSS equipment. Accordingly, your PayPal account has been restricted. Pursuant to the User Agreement, the funds will be held in your PayPal account pending any chargebacks or customer complaints, and will be released on a rolling basis, as the risk of chargebacks and/or complaints lapses. Assuming that no additional impediments arise, the entirety of your balance will be returned to you no later than 180 days
from the date of this email.

Sincerely,
Laurie
Complaint Resolution Department


DSS descramblers ??? Anyways I'll wait.

[javist]

So you just have to wait, and they will slowy pay it back is what your saying? wtf would be the point of freezing the assets then? What a stall tatic i would say. They probally have no right to freeze them if thats the case. What happens if you ask them for actual proof the funds in your account are dss related? Alot of people probally use there paypal accounts for vary of things.

[gunsmoke2]

Pursuant to the User Agreement


That wouldn't hold up under legal scrutiny IMHO. I would have already had my lawyer on it if it happened to me and would make sure that they would notified they will be held liable for irrepitable harm and anything else.


GS2

[dssware]

They arent just hitting dealers, they froze my account as well, I dont sell anything except advertising.....

[SatStuffDirect]

I knew about all the dealers but, you're the first info site I hear of. DssWare, my guess is that froze yours because dealers are paying for their advertising with it. No laws against selling advertising just the content of what is being advertised. This one is a little more difficult. GS or TTRK, any legal advice for this?

[javist]

Seems they froze everything that is DSS related. Also sounds like if don't don't sell any more dss products through paypal they will slowy release your funds over the next 6 months?

[Simpleton]

Everyone who has had an account frozen might ask Paypal just exactly what rate of interest they intend to pay you for the use of your money.

[DECODERNEWS]

I believe that this is just the beginning of more to crackdowns to come on the 'third-party billing' services that have become so popular with test equipment dealers.

I have a gut feeling that Mckenzie with cooperation of US law enforcement is herding dealers like cattle towards other providers like CCNOW (which added a handful of dealers in the past couple days) and waiting for the dealers to build a reserve then shutting down their accounts and hitting them financially again, where it hurts the most.

Also, do not be surprised if you see 'new' services pop-up offering to handle the accounts for test equipment dealers. I would be vary weary of such offers as they could potentially be sting operations set up by US law enforcement. This would be an extremely effective way for Mckenzie and US law enforcement not only to pinch the dealer's pockets but to gather critical information on the consumers of 'test equipment'. All I can say now is wait and see, and be careful.

[ez1]

paypal frozen
theres western union avalable almost everywhere now
and only costs a couple bucks -plus you get a receit
money order
phone credit card number and amount in
bank drafts
cheques
money transfers by bank
and lots im sure i haven't thought of
who needs paypal - jerks