need to demonstrate legal use

[bobsmith123]

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[Salty Jizm]

Bob, change your options so you can get private messages through this board.

But to your request, a very simple example would be flashing the ISO code into the loader/unlooper so you can talk with normal white smart cards. Obviously, that is not the most cost effective way to talk to a white smart card, but it is absolutely valid.

The reason somebody might do this is because some smart cards are very picky about baud rates. So, you could program your PC to talk at one rate to the loader. You could setup the loader to talk at another rate to the smart card.

If you fried your generic white smart card while doing software development for it, you might decide to write some unlooper software to fix it. That might be the reason why you wanted a loader instead of an ISO programmer to talk to the generic white card. You could potentally unloop it and cut the developement expense for what ever you are developing on the smart card. If I'm not mistaken, I think some people have fixed DTV cards using these devices when thier IRD malfunctioned and damaged thier card. I'm glad my IRD has never damaged my subscribed card or I might have to spend the time to learn how to use one of these things.

[TestCardStore]

There are a million uses. Lets say you developed an iso7816 based security system and you wanted to check out the integrity of it. If you were a thief, how would you compromise the system? You would probably start by glitching the card to break into it and dump code. So if you wanted to 'think like a thief' and test your system why wouldn't you be trying this with so many available??? Also in the time of testing you screwed up some cards.. so what - ya wanna fix them instead of constantly buying new ones. Many dealers are already working on drivers and Microsoft certification. ISO 7816 IS A LEGAL STANDARD.

[bobsmith123]

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[shep2]

Originally posted by bobsmith123
sorry about that. i enabled private messages now.

thanks for the feedback guys.

so if i understand:

1. an unlooper can be used to load an image on to a card. (imo, i don't care what the image is... as long as it is not related to directv). and this would work with white generic cards.

2. an unlooper could perhaps, in some cases, repair a generic white card.

3. an unlooper could be used for security testing, in that, it could be used to see what happens if a hacker tries to use it on a generic white smart card.

those all sound like legal uses.

the unlooper in question is a Vector UL Pro Unlooper.

Q: do all unloopers have the ability to load images on to generic white cards? (or at least the Vector?)

Q: do all unloopers have the ability to pull images off of generic white cards? (or at least the Vector?)

thanks for the feedback. the directv lawyers were claiming that there was absolutely no legal use for an unlooper. this is the type of information i need to fight them... and i am fighting them. they're going to pay. :)

Shep2
There is an add in Poptronics June issue page 76
They sell a kit of everything needed to program
smart cards for security use.
Should make for a logigical use for unloopers.

[TestCardStore]

The viper is an older unit so may not have the dipswitches but you could still manually lift pin 1 on atmel, or mod it yourself with a switch to make it into an iso7816 programmer.
If not, ya know what?? Well I guess I bought the wrong thing.. and that guy in IRC told me to go to White Viper and buy this programmer so I could experiment with white cards.. never could get the bloody thing working....

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

An Unlooper is nothing but a PROGRAMMABLE ISO-7816 smart card programmer.

Don't be mislead by the generic white card stuff however. All cards are white (including DTV's) before the graphics are printed on them. This seems to make the suggestion that there is some type of generic white card. There are in fact HUNDREDS of cards by various manufacturers depending on the TYPE of card. Some have microprocessors and some are pure memory storage and dumb.

The lift pin 1 stuff is also what people know about DSS unloopers. These unloopers which are really programmable ISO-7816 programmers/glitchers are totally controlled by the program on the Atmel chip. They are TOTALLY cost effective and can be purchased for $100.00 when GemPlus programmers that are less capable sell for $1000.00 and more as are many others. These are a REAL BARGAIN.

These is NO necessity to lift any pins and the Atmel chip can be programmed to make the ISO-7816 programmer do virtually anything. Compared to normal programmers which do one thing and nothing else and cannot be easily altered to function with various cards. The Unlooper can be programmed (via the Atmel) to program virtually any ISO-7816 card that was ever made.

What you need here is a university professor who teaches smart card programming to be qualified as an expert in court and state the multitude of uses. You may have to show him one and the 20 or more flashes that are available. These in fact can contain ANY DATA AT ALL and are capable of self programming as far as the ATMEL is concerned. This also makes them an ATMEL AT90S2313 type programmer as well. In fact there is a flash that allows you to program bootstrap code to an Atmel and then place it in a bootstrap board. Any data that fits in that Atmel can be programmed in this device making it a multiple purpose programmer. It is simple to place NEW DATA in the shell flash and thereby program any data onto the Atmel.

Since they are fully programmable this makes them capable of being used with FUTURE models of smart cards that have not even been designed yet. These are EXTREMELY cost effective and are multi-purpose in that they can also program the Atmel AT90S2313 family of chips on top of everything else they can do.

It is WRONG to call them unloopers since they are really Programmable ISO-7816 Progrmmers/reader/writers and Atmel Programmers that can be altered by any reasonable programmer to suit any smartcard currently available or to become available in the Future. For under $100 bucks that an INCREDIBLE BARGAIN with even MORE uses by far than a ISO-7816 programmer. But unlooping generic white smartcards, I dont think so. Most of them are just memory with no capability to become looped. But Microcontroller based ones that YOU put developement code on couldhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

But please KNOW what you are talking about before you delve in too deep.
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Thanks & Good Luck,

To The REAL King!!

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[Salty Jizm]

After reading TTRK's post, I realized that I could use one of these loader things to load software into Atmel parts. Atmel parts are used in thousands of designs and are very useful parts for designing embedded processor circuits. But, in an embedded processor design, the processor has to have code inside of it in order for the circuit to function correctly. The processor comes from the factory in a blank state. I need a way to get my code inside of the processor.

If I can use these loaders to put code into my Atmel parts, (and obviously, I can) I better run out and buy one of these loaders!!!

[TestCardStore]

Yes.. Atmel offers an AVR flash microcontroller starter kit. The new Digikey catalogue has it on page 226. You could do the same thing with a programmable iso7816 programmer, and you could also use an 8515 socket attached to 3 resistors, a tantalum cap and a DB-25 to program the 40 pin atmel line. Effectively doing what this kit does.

Interestingly enough they also offer a Jtag system on the same page as well as an emulator. I have found much of this very handy for my robotic projects as I have always wanted to get on 'robot wars'.