problem now is that pirating satellite is causing interference with Police radios?

[captbly]

Sounds far fetched to me

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/sf05757e.html

Interference to Public Safety Radiocommunication Systems from Pirate Devices used in Direct-to-Home (DTH) Satellite Equipment

Frequently Asked Questions

1. Why is Industry Canada so concerned about this particular interference problem?

Public safety and Search and Rescue agencies are critically dependent on their radiocommunication systems to provide services to the public. When their radio systems are interfered with, the ability to protect and serve the public is impaired, leaving human lives and property at risk.

2. What is causing the interference?

When manufacturers produce devices such as satellite television receivers, their devices must be tested to ensure that they comply with specific technical standards. The purpose of these standards is to prevent the devices from interfering with other radio systems. The manufacturers ensure compliance by enclosing their devices in specially shielded cases, which limit interfering radio signals from escaping, or leaking, out of the device.

There are a variety of non-standard attachments, generically known as AVR cards, that can be purchased for use with Bell ExpressVu satellite television receivers. These AVR cards are designed solely for the purpose of stealing satellite television programming. Combining them with a compliant satellite receiver defeats its shielding and permits radio signals to "escape" from the receiver, spread through the air, cause interference to nearby radio receivers and mask the detection of signals from emergency locator beacons.

3. How serious is this interference?

It can be very serious.

In one case, the interfering signals prevented a police dispatcher from receiving a request for help from an officer on patrol.

In another case, the interfering signals led Search and Rescue personnel to believe that an aircraft had crashed. They immediately launched a search and rescue mission that was not only costly and unnecessary, but it tied up critical limited resources that might have been needed at a real crash site elsewhere.

These "leaking" radio signals may also mask legitimate signals transmitted by distress beacons, preventing Search and Rescue personnel from detecting them.

4. How did Industry Canada establish that "AVR cards" were responsible for the interference?

Industry Canada's radio equipment testing laboratory evaluated several "off the shelf" Bell ExpressVu satellite television receivers. All receivers were found to be compliant with the appropriate technical standards and free of radio signals escaping into the environment. The standard is the Broadcast Equipment Technical Standard No. 7 (BETS-7).

The same receivers were subsequently tested after being fitted with AVR cards. The combined devices transmitted excessive radio signals, some of which fell on channels used by Police and Search and Rescue agencies.

Removal of the AVR cards subsequently eliminated the interfering radio signals.

5. What is Industry Canada doing to resolve this interference problem?

In the first phase, the Minister of Industry has made a determination that AVR cards are causing or likely to be causing interference and has taken steps to give notice of this determination to persons who are likely to be causing interference to radiocommunication.

These steps include a Gazette Notice which can be found at: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/sf05730e.html

The next steps could include prosecution of persons who fail to comply with the Radiocommunication Regulations or the Radiocommunication Act.

6. Where does the Minister of Industry get the authority to take such action?

Section 50 of the Radiocommunication Regulations, as established by Parliament, states:

"50. (2) Where the Minister, taking into account the factors mentioned in subsection (5), determines that a model or several models of equipment cause or are likely to cause interference to radiocommunication or suffer from or are likely to suffer from adverse effects of electromagnetic energy, the Minister shall give notice of the determination to persons who are likely to be affected thereby.

(3) No person shall manufacture, import, distribute, lease, offer for sale, sell, install or use equipment in respect of which a notice referred to in subsection (2) has been given.

(5) A determination pursuant to subsection (2) shall include the consideration of the following factors:

(a) the electromagnetic environment in which the equipment is being used;

(b) the circumstances under which it is being used;

(c) the technical characteristics of the devices being interfered with or being adversely affected by electromagnetic energy; and

(d) the technical characteristics of the devices causing interference or the adverse effects of electromagnetic energy."

7. Do users of AVR cards realize that they can cause this interference?

In most cases, they probably do not. That is why Industry Canada has initiated this information campaign. Interfering with radiocommunication is an offence under section 9(1)(b) of the Radiocommunication Act.

8. Are there penalties for people who ignore the prohibition and continue selling or using AVR cards?

Yes. Section 10-(1)(d) of the Radiocommunication Act provides penalties for failure to comply with the regulation. Individuals, convicted under this section, may be liable for fines of up to $5,000 a day and/or periods of imprisonment of up to one year. Corporations who ignore the prohibition are liable for fines of up to $25,000 upon summary conviction.

The Contraventions Act is also applicable in some provinces which permits Industry Canada Inspectors to issue tickets or Summons to Appear in Court.

Moreover, any material related to the offence may be seized and held as evidence until the case has been heard in court. This includes all the hardware associated with the DTH satellite receiving system. Forfeiture could also be ordered.

9. I have heard of black market devices being used to pick up satellite DTH signals. Are these the same thing?

Black market decoders are designed to circumvent the DTH signal scrambling (encryption) systems so that pay-TV or other channels can be viewed without paying the required subscription fee to the lawful distributor. AVR cards are one of the many black market devices currently available.

10. What is the government's position on the use of black market satellite television decoders?

The Government's position is that manufacturing, importing, distributing, leasing, selling, installing, modifying or possessing devices designed to circumvent DTH encryption systems is illegal.


11. What could happen to me if I own or use one of these devices?

Federal Inspectors have the authority to take the necessary steps to resolve the interference, including search and seizure of DTH equipment. Should that be required, prosecution could result in fines and/or imprisonment as well as forfeiture of the DTH equipment. (See Question 8.)

[captbly]

I know there is some RF associated with items such as this, but enough power to disrupt police communications?

I agree this puts out there another another means for prosecution which is the big issue.

[Bowen13]

If our essential communications services can be so easily interupted, how shakey must our vital communications system be?

If this is anywhere near being true, should they not be more concerned about revamping the whole system? They seemed more concerned about the AVR boards than what the real problem would be.

They should now be made to explain why our critical communications system is so easily interupted and why. Who is responsible for it? What are they doing to correct it? Why are they putting peoples lives at risk?

Or tell us that the AVR boards are not really a risk:gg

[owenscott]

I have a scanner and listen alot. As far as i can tell this is pure BULL****. I never get enough rf to do diddle squat.Total bs in my book. rf is also wasted energy .. right? Well to think these ppl can time gltches at precise exacting standards but design sooooo poorly that rf is strong enough to block a police radio ... give me a break. I found out along time ago how to read between the lines in a story, if these actually happened they would describe each incident as such and such happened in EXACT name of town and exact nature of lost police call. Possible that they wouyld have included an interveiw with the officer, but i will admit that it is possible soooo ......... thank god for ul4s and the new glitch points that allows us to glitch in less time. Thank for doing your duty to god and country !! :)

[directvp4]

Pure B.S. Time to put the crack pipe down!!!!

[Flash Lighting]

Ofcourse this is B.S., I've personally had 25+ yrs. experience in police communictions and still service the equipment,from the ole' 'T' power low band 'tube' sets to the now 'Digital Trunked Encrypted' were as my city has over 5000 portables. I'll tell ya a quick story, there's a section in my city that has a problem with 'rodents' and in the cold weather, people were known to buy a device called a 'mouse' erradicator, this device was cheaply built, 'poor oscillation and bad capacitance' what ended up happening, the device radiated 'RF' thru the 'a.c.' line out the house up the poll thru our local (comm. ed.) lines, which acted as an antenna, blocks long, and oscillated into one of our 'TX' radio towers messing up one of our communication channels. Can't see any 'RF'being generated from any iso device........by the way I've connected an attorney on my behave due to letters received and we're taking one step at a time.....

[TBIRD]

If this was true than no satelite broadcast could be made without interferance. Its just a signal. Your microwave will put out more interferance than a satelite dish. Proof of that is take your cordless phone by your receiver and no interferance. Go next to your microwave while its running and noise city. So whats next. No car alarms, microwaves, ham radio antennas, flouresant lights, and than those power lines and transformers that buzz and leak rf all over. Give me a break. Do these guys really believe they can get pewople to believe this.

[amex97]

The interior of the receiver is full of rf coming from all sorts of components. The metal box provides shielding preventing the junky hash from getting out. The avr simply acts as an antenna for the internal junk and out it goes for all to hear. It shows up on my scanner bigtime.

[prowl]

Electronics have to be made to a code, one of them being can't transmit enough of an rf signal in certain ranges. In the case of AVR boards, when used in conjunction with the ird, the board emits an rf signal that is in the EMERGENCY range, which is a range that you cannot legally transmit in except for emergency. Satellites will not transmit in this range cause they have been designed/tested not to.

[llurkin]

Again, the sleight of hand of the magician has distracted every one. Or has anyone realized that Dishnet (aka Bell Expre$$VU) is the system that uses an avr board. Gee whiz. Next they will probably be reselling all the illegal avr baords that they find to someone driving a viper??

[gunsmoke2]

Actually prowl has it right. This is about an AVR board used in a receiver. Its not about the receiver or any hacked card as it relates only to an AVR board used in a receiver.


I believe this is a problem for the FCC in the US also and I will try to find any info on this.


GS2

[ekati]

Not only does it show up on the scanner at 121.5(emergengy freq) but also at 122.600, 123.975, 125.00, 125.25, 126.00, 126.825, 126.975, 127.100, 486.000 MHZ If you hold your own rat shack scanner about two feet away fron the AVR.
If you are emulating with an AVR board with Bell/Dish you will hear a beep on your scanner everytime another line of code shows up on the program if you watch your pc monitor.
You guys that think it's bs better try it for yourself.

Will anything but done about it? Who knows? But i really doubt Bell/Dish will be driving around your house looking for it.

[TBIRD]

I'm sure it might put off a little bit of a rf emmission but not enough to bother police radios. your microwave will do the same thing in the 2.4 ghz range but its not enough to bother anything unless its close. They said the same thing about radar detectors bothering stores and gas stations that use satellite to call in credit card transactions but unless that radar detector is close to the unit sending to the dish it can't happen. Now the gas pumps that have the credit card units in them where you don't have to go in send a radio wave to the inside of the building to the unit that sends the signal out and it can bother them a bit. but were talking a few feet not a car driving by down the street and if it did it would be just a small drop in transmission for a second and not enough to cause them radio problems. That was my point of all this. My Ham radio equipment would cause them more problems than the avr board. I don't get any rf feedback of any kind from my AVR to any of my radio gear ham or citizens band and they are only about 4 feet from the sat. receiver.

[Daveee]

TBird and others.. This has been covered before here and on ID. On the ELT frequency 121.5MHZ.. I have with one AVR board here.. I can take my PRO43 and walk to the end of the block and have almost full quiteing.. this is about 100 yards. Being that strong and being 1.5 miles diagnally for the end of an active runway.. I cant have this. I know pilots who tune their second RX'er on 121.5 all the time.. even if you get a blank carrier most of these guys will inform SAR just incase.. and being a member CASARA I can tell you that even if we can tell it might not be an ELT signal.. it will get reported.

Not everyone gets this signal.. I would say atleast 50% do. It really depends on the AVR and how long the traces are.

This problem can be fixed by sheilding the AVR board as the IRD is making this signal.. the AVR only helps rediate it.

And using my FT817 (Yes Im a ham too..) I can find a pile of strong frequencies that come from my 2700.. even my DR420 puts out a big signal around 147.060.

So yes what IC is saying is correct.. but its still the government running IC and I have never seen IC send out a notice worked quite like the one the put out about this "interference." I would bet cash that some BEV goon chumed it up with an IC guy, Copps and the IC head dude.. to print out what every radio person can clearly see is pure propaganda.

Daveee.. somewhere in VE5 land.

Just ran my scanner thur 150-170 and found really nothing.. the ones I came across were nowhere near public service frequencies.. not going to bother with 800 fleetnet/cell freqs as the harmonic would be so weak.. it would be nothing to worry about.

[morgation]

With regards to all of this, i have read that the police now have some type of device that can detect illegal satellite signals by simply driving by your house and picking it up. Do you think that this is BS as well or have you heard the same?

[NotHome]

I have looked at the "red" board unloopers and yes, they sing like mad on a spectrum analyser. Put them inside a shielded case and they are nice and quiete. Fast stuff is normally noisy unless it is all impedance matched, which the unloopers are definately not.

NotHome

[jheron]

I am an electrician that does alot of work for tower building companys, I know of one tower in Acton ont. that was put up a couple of months ago with special anttenas (spelling :R ) in conjunction with a van carrying special equipment to trace avr interferance. When I heard this I dissmissed it as bs... hmm I will see what else I can dig up...
regards jheron

[morgation]

Thanks. Two more questions. Where can you get one of these shielded casings? Can the signal detector pick up a signal only when the receiver is on? (May be a stupid question but had to ask)

[NotHome]

Any metal case with small openings will shield the signal if you ground the case. The Receiver is never 'OFF'when it has power, it is alway processing the data stream, so yes the emissions happen with the receiver turned off.

NotHome

[giveupdave]

I'm a radio techincian and deal with RF all the time. This devices do give out RF, I have seen it on test equipment myself. BUt, it doesn't have much range, maybe 50 to 100 feet on average. By sheilding the case properly, you would elimate this RF.

You don't need a special antenna to receive this RF. If someone really wanted to drive around and try to detect this RF signal, all they would have to do is have the test equipment on there front seat.
Chances that the police have this equipment is well about zero chance.
Chances that someone has a tower site with special equipment, is about zero aswell. Industry Cnada would have the equipment but why check? No one is going to go house to house checking for these signals.

[bill41]

Even if they were going house to house so what...this is Canada...and how are they going to get inside your home to make sure it is an avr....?? Do you think any justice would sign a search warrent based on rf emissions! IC has created this blown out of proportion threat to essential service radio to appease thier other friends....bev and *choice...if this is so then the stupid liberal government is just wasting more tax dollars on another useless effort...
They would have been better off telling everyone through health Canada that avr's cause brain cancer due to excessive rf emissions... in reality there are lots more items that cause radio interferance than that...such as hospital equipment, certain electric welders and don't forget those rebel truckers with thier amplified c.b. radios...they are responsible for all the Volvo accidents (unintentional acceleration):R

[Jeet]

Originally posted by morgation
With regards to all of this, i have read that the police now have some type of device that can detect illegal satellite signals by simply driving by your house and picking it up. Do you think that this is BS as well or have you heard the same?

You mean to tell me that seeing multiple 18" dishes or a dish that is not pointed at Bell Expressvu or Star Choices bird in the sky is not enough for them to determine that you are watching illegal satellite.

[Phase]

Originally posted by Jeet
You mean to tell me that seeing multiple 18" dishes or a dish that is not pointed at Bell Expressvu or Star Choices bird in the sky is not enough for them to determine that you are watching illegal satellite.

Ok well how do you prove the dish is connected and being used without obtaining a search warrant and entering the house?

[mitnick]

EARLIER POST:

Not only does it show up on the scanner at 121.5(emergengy freq) but also at 122.600, 123.975, 125.00, 125.25, 126.00, 126.825, 126.975, 127.100, 486.000 MHZ If you hold your own rat shack scanner about two feet away fron the AVR.


I am not a radio user and only familiar with CPU and IRD.

Anyhow I thought the key phrase there was "about two feet away"
So would that not mean that a police cruiser or Airplane would have to have it's radio 2 feet away for this serious and dangerous problem to occurr?


Also I am not familiar with the court system or legal boundaries in Canada. Do they use the "Innocent until PROVEN guilty" approach that the US uses? If so, then wouldn't they HAVE to show this in action in a court room to PROVE the case and thus find anyone guilty?

If they cannot get me brute force front door with an AVR saying I am pirating, and this is just a mere "loophole" they are trying to create in order to prosecute, won't it still end in yet another stalemate because they won't be able to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this is REALISTICALLY a threat?

OR do most ppl here feel that MY having an AVR and using it for testing WILL cause planes to get lost or even crash and police to miss out on all the action??

Just how plausible is this?
:Z

[Sore Winner Supreme]

All I know is, I had a cop standing not 5 feet away from my still-running 2313\232 emu system. No problems.

[yesitisme]

Depending on the spectrum analyser they are using, the signal can be detected up to approx 100 feet away. That should show you that it is really weak in nature. So to truthfully be deemed a hazard to other communications, you would need to have several thousand of these things running right next to the emergency services tower, to have any kind of affect on their tranmissions. But this will not stop the government from trying to use this as a scare tactic against anyone using the avr boards. The best method to put a stop to all this is to sheild the avr board. Probably people never will do that, but it is a solution though.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

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[yesitisme]

Yes, I do believe everyone knows this is BS, but it is something that once stated gets repeated so often, that we then get people who know absolutely nothing about these things, stating them as facts. Which then snowballs to those who like to panic first and think second, calling for an immediate end to this hazardous situation.

Hell, the present government is way more hazardous to the people of Canada, then this will ever be, but much as with this, we also can not do much about it, until election time, and if as time has shown me so many times, the majority of voters are sheep, and easily deceived by political promises. I personally do not find any of the choices here in Canada for leaders appealing, and to be honest with my feelings, I would have to say, I would want most of our politicians to magically disappear permanently. That way we may get some new more palitable choices.

As for the satellite situation here in Canada goes, I am not so sure that even if another party was to come to power, that the same political payouts and backroom dealings, will not again bring us to the same place we are now.

I see that we all have moved back from the idea of free and open communications on the internet, with no restrictions at all, to a more restrictive stance of, "somethings are just too offensive to have open to inquiring minds". This scares me, as it means we are erroding our freedoms under our Charter Of Rights and Freedoms. It is this kind of well meaning wedges, that are the building blocks of the wide open acceptance of our rights being freely given up, to the ideas of a better world without it, theories. I am not so sure, that now that it has started, that we get stop it. Yes it is all nice to say that we will fight it to the end. But that is just not realistic in actual circumstances. The costs of these fights are huge, on your families and of course your finances, and in the end, you know all wins are just appealed over and over.

The only way I think we can win, would be to banned together and start a new satellite dth service licensed here in Canada, that would be customer owned and non-profit. The trouble is, there are not enough truely committed people to make that fly. Yes everyone whines and says how they are committed, but the dollar amounts that this would take to get going, means you would need at least half the present satellite and cable subscribers, to give you solid finacial commitments, and since we can not seem to get even a few hundred people, to agree on anything, why would anyone think this time would be different. So since this probably is not do able, and the present fights are almost unwinnable, then what is the next option?

We are soon going to have weapons in space, controlled by a country that has already shown they could careless for anyone other then their own interests. Does that give anyone a sense of security? The time has come for people to look at what our technology has brought us to, and to understand just how it will be abused, and used against you. Now in order to protect us against that, it means restrictions will have to be in place. So along with those restrictions will then again come our giving up rights and freedoms. It does seem to be a vicious circle, does it not?

Now that is looking at the whole big picture, of what might come to pass, but for now we have only our small fight at hand. Can our small victories here make a big difference in the over all scheme of things? Well I for one am not sure, and yes I question these things daily, which probably helps keep me sane, or maybe one day will drive me insane. I am not so sure that we will be looking back from some where in the near future, and saying, "gee even these bad times, were really the days of freedom", that will soon be lost forever.

Errosion of of rights and freedoms, has been happening quite steadily for the last two decades, and much like weather and soil erosion, it is hard to see until you look back from where it takes you to in the future. Yes I would like to look at myself as a large big tree holding the soil together so it will resist the errosion, but yes these times are making me feel the tugging at my roots, so to speak.

[cablemonkey]

Industry Cnada would have the equipment but why check? No one is going to go house to house checking for these signals.

I know for a fact that IC <b>does</b> actually drive around looking for sources of 121.5 interference. They don't care about black market / grey market IRDs, dishes, etc. They just want that SAR signal off the air.

There have been documented cases of the SARSAT falsing from signals from a group of homes all with AVR'd IRDs.

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

It's true, History does repeat itself! - eh!
This story was flowing on the sites about two years ago. In fact, I recall a person stating his job was to repair police radios and he knew for a fact that the implications were the purest of "crap". A Bull couldn't dump it as pure as this report has.
Definitely, someone's turning over the old manure pile.