my situation

[johnny five]

i got my first letter in feb. (certified) i was very nervous so i called the law firm. i got a answering machine left my name and # never heard from them. i got my 2nd letter in june (non certified) stating the same BS and that they were giving me one more chance before they took action. this time they had a sample law suit attached. so i contacted my family lawyer. he asked me if i knew why i got the letter, and i told him yes it was because of a programmer that i had bought 2 years ago. a couple of weeks ago, he wrote a simple (non threatning)letter to the law firm basically saying that he represented me and asked for proof of any wrong doing that i had done. he contacted me yesterday, and the only proof they sent him, was a invoice, that had my name and old address on it. that was all. in their letter they said that i had bought a "device that was flashed for illegal pirating" and that was my "sole intent". they also said that they were looking for 3 to 4 thousand dollars!! me turning over any illegal devices, and a written statement saying that i'll be a good boy from now on. they said that they had already sent settlement papers, so my lawyer said he would contact me after he looked over them. i told him that if i do settle (which i can't afford to defend my self) that they are not going to get 3 or 4 thousand, i won't sign anything that says that i'm guilty, and i will cancel my sub and convince as many other freinds and family to do the same. oh yeah they said in my letter that i'm not a paying customer. i didn't have a sub when i ordered the programmer, but i've had my sub for the last year and half or so. it sounds like they don't know anything about what they are suggesting, other than i purchased a programmer. i'll post again next week after i talk to my lawyer.

[BubbaHill]

johnny five,
I agree with you, 3 or 4 thousand is way to much. I'm sure
your lawyer will negotiate a better deal. Thanks for your
post, and let us know how you made out with these ass holes.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Johnnyfive,

If they do not know you have a sub you may be better off that way. If they know and you did not buy as many PPV after the programmer or you reduced your sub or any such thing, they will want MORE MONEY and are harder to settle with. So I would not advise them if I were you. But you may want to ask your lawyer but read this first:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/subharmful.html

After receiving emails on nearly 100 cases, this seems to be the case. You may be best to cancel the sub and let your lawyer play hardball. The art of negotiation is of finesse but the harder you appear to be initially, the more it worries them since they have nothing. This invoice prove nothing and its all they have in most cases and in some they appear to have name and addresses ONLY with no indication of what was purchased. They SAY it was a boot loader because they know this is the hardest one and they HOPE you will say "I did not buy any boot loader, I bought a Programmer."

Bingo, you gust gave away the whole game. After all HOW can they go to court against you if they do NOT even know what you bought. But many will not listen when I say not to talk to them yourself and without realizing give them what they need when they COULD NOT go up against you before you told them.

But this is the way it is and people often don't listen and bury themselves. Unfortunately it happens far too often.

So folks, BE CAREFUL, they are very TRICKY, SLIMY SNAKEShttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[zardoz77]

.

[johnny five]

thank you so much ttrk for the reply!!! my question is what if they do think i bought a boot strap or anything other than what i did buy? then what? i mean if they say i bought a boot strap, and i keep quiet, and never correct them what do they do then? won't they persue me for a boot strap? do you know where i'm going with this? i'm just a little paranoid and confused right now as if you can't tell by my babiling on. if you could give me some more insight on what you were talking about, i would deeply appreciate it!!! thanks

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Johnnyfive,

Its very simple. If they continue to believe this, let them sue. If they were silly enough to do that (but they wont be) then you let them go all the way. They have to PROVE to the court that you purchased this and you DID NOT. So how are they going to prove that. If they bring an invoice for a bootstrap,(it will have to be a false and fabricated invoice) then you need to get the name of the owner of the company you purchased from and depose him. Its a CRIME to fabricate false EVIDENCE. He cannot testify that you bought it if you did not. Ask for proof of payment, proof of delivery and all the things that would prove the purchase. Since its your credit card or payment, would the price paid match the price of what you bought. I highly DOUBT that and the past owner could not testify that the price is wrong but they still sent the wrong thing. How could that be?

People please understand that they cannot just allege a purchase of what ever they want.

They have to prove that you ordered it.

They have to prove that you paid for it.

They have to prove that you received it. YOU not someone else

And THEN, most important of all,

They have to prove that you USED IT to steal their signal.

How does them having the wrong information about the purchase alone PROVE THAT?

IMPOSSIBLE is it not.

But that is where they are stuck. So if they have it wrong as to what you purchased how can they prove it. With a phony invoice?

They can NOT prove what did not happen so if you did not buy a bootstrap they cannot meet any of these BURDENS listed above and you my friend, have NOTHING to worry about. But they do if they fabricate a false Invoice which is "fabricating evidence". That is a criminal offence.

They have an almost insurmountable burden NOW even if you did buy something, that does NOT prove that you stole anything. And people need to understand that.

If I had a case like that I would simply appear in court and wait to see their PROOF. They cannot have REAL PROOF if you did not buy it. So this one is quite simple, they cannot have real proof about what did not happen and that's it. Case dismissed.

But understand that they will not be going to court when they do not know what you purchased. They do NOT want to lose any of these because if they do it will harm their ability to INTIMIDATE which is what they want to do and ARE DOING. People PAY THEM only because its the cheapest thing to do, not because its the FACTS. They do not KNOW the facts. And that's the shame in that they are using ECONOMIC TERRORISM to defeat people, not the law as it should be applied. Some people ARE going after them and I am aware of this and they will ultimately get caught. But its not there yethttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

They are playing a dangerous game here and many are aware of it and some are setting traps. Just keep your eye on the ball because it WILL come out. If they do get caught they may be charged criminally because its criminal to do some of what is being done. But I cannot say more now.

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[johnny five]

hell ya!!!!! thanks so much ttrk the more i read from you the better i feel!! thanks again!! i appriciate it.

[terre2005]

hi to the real King,

thanks for the note above, now I feel better

I have a question, who is involved in this matter,
the one whose name is in the letter, whoever
signed the package as received, or the people
living in that address or who?
I ask this because I received the letter but I do not
live in that address I just borrowed it for receiving
mail or products. I live outside of USA.


What seems to be my situation here


thanks in advance

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Terre,

THe point is can they serve you at that address now. If they cannot serve you and its not a proper address ten you may be OK. You should talk to a lawyer, get information on that and tell him where you actually live. THey will TRY to get a default judgement no matter where you live (they have one against me) but they may not be able to do that if they cannot serve you.

But do not take my word for it you need to hear it from a lawyer since I could be wrong.

But if I was in line for a letter, I would THINK you are in a favorable position.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

One thing I dont understand is that if people bought but did not get a letter yet, they may be MUCH better oof cancelling their sub and getting a DISH network system which is a free swap. Firstly why deal with someone who wants to harm you and secondly you can show that you swapped because you dd not like their line up. Most people do not steal what they dont like and it may provide several iother ways of helping you. But there is NO TIME to waste and people should take action now, before they get anything. people may want to read this at;

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/subharmful.html

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[Salty Jizm]

TTRK, you said:

They are playing a dangerous game here and many are aware of it and some are setting traps. Just keep your eye on the ball because it WILL come out. If they do get caught they may be charged criminally because its criminal to do some of what is being done. But I cannot say more now.

This is like watching a chess game. (And of course, I'm cheering for the underdog!) TTRK, when the advisary steps in a trap, can you please tell us the whole history of how the trap got set, how it was baited, and how they mis-stepped into it.

(I realize you can't discuss it now... But when the time is right, please remember and post ALL the details! :)



If they can be trapped and ensnared in the trap, they will also be charged with a criminal offense. The people who are doing this are VERY MAD and they have the funds to go all the way. And they are documenting everything 100%.

So don't worry because if they do get caught then that will likely be a defence for 100% of the people getting these love letters. The people who are working on this know it and that is one of their goals.

So don't worry, you will hear from me big time :

To The REAL King!!

[XIS]

I have seen a lot of posts from people receiving the letter, but none from anyone saying "I got summoned"... Why is that?

[To The Real King!!]

Its because you don't read enough. Many have said that and I have posted a whole raft of lawsuits with many more to come at:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/civildocketpage.html

Each lawsuit covers multiple names too.

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/dtvdocketpage.html

For instance in one case here are the people served and notice they are suing the WIVES too.


JIMMIE SIMMONS, husband
dft
[term 02/27/02]
JANE DOE SIMMONS, wife
dft
[term 02/27/02]
BILL STANLEY, husband Robert G Swan
dft FAX (602)257-0009
[COR LD NTC -]
-
714 N 3rd St
Phoenix, AZ 85004
(602)257-0008
JANE DOE STANLEY, wife
dft
WILLIAM QUEEN, husband
dft
JANE DOE QUEEN, wife
dft
JULIA HOUSER, wife Julia Houser
dft [COR LD NTC pse] [PRO SE]
-
3809 N 424th Ave
Tonopah, AZ 85354
LARRY HOUSER, husband Larry Houser
dft [COR LD NTC pse] [PRO SE]
-
3809 N 424th Ave
Tonopah, AZ 85354
JENI KENYON, wife
dft
[term 03/12/02]
JERRY A KENYON, husband
dft
[term 03/12/02]
TOM TAYLOR, husband
dft
TERESA TAYLOR, wife
dft


And I think this may give a problem since only one person bought anything. But what they are trying to do is include wives as they may perceive that they are weaker and if there is testimony they feel they can catch someone up or something.

So its getting more an more disgusting and their actions are progressively getting worse. I suspect that they may now begin to get people REALLY mad and many are now complaining to the Attorney General in their state and to various boards of authority. These actions wont be looked on lightly and they may now have gone one step too far.

Now I think we will see some countersuits by wives who may not quite like this. And watch out if they do not have the proof.

But it shows people just WHO they are dealing with and the quality of the people therehttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

So XIS, you have fallen well behind in what is happening and you may want to READ more of the posts on this site. And there are MANY of them:)

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[XIS]

TTRK (or anyone with input), what do you recomend for someone who has recently recieved the letter? There hasnt been anything related to any ISO equipment anywhere on the premises for some time and it was never used for DTV, infact COX cable is installed in the house. I keep reading posts by people saying to just ignore the letter. Thanks for your input.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi XIS,

That would be a critical mistake and only an IDIOT would do that. I have posted time and time again that they get DEFAULT judgements against people who do that.

Listen READ the various LINKS off this page:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTVBOX.html

I hope the HELL I did not spend endless hours writing those articles and downloading REAL law suits so that you instead listen to some idiot giving you fatally flawed advice. Or maybe that's what you WANT to hear? Well maybe now but not if they get a $75,000.00 default judgement as they did to some other poor fool who listened to the dorks who don't care since its YOU who will suffer.

Take a look at the weeks of work that I put into these articles and then ask yourself, "did he do all that to mislead me" and then ask yourself what it cost some fool to give you terrible advice to forget the letter.

Once you have thought about both of those things, you will probably know what to do all by yourself :)

But I hope you don't think that it was a thrill for me to put all those articles together. I have over 100,000 pages on legal-rights that I put together in over 31/2 almost 4 years now of almost full time work. It was NOT for my self-education towards a law career, I can assure you. I am 60 and supposed to be retired so that's the kibosh to that idea.

Look at the civil case I copied and pasted from PACER and then at the MANY lawsuit page. You will see if the suits are a figment of anyones imagination. Those DOCKETS are all court dockets from REAL CASES and I still have about 50 more civil ones to post with more being filed everyday. I got a bill today for over $700.00 for all the downloads and that comes right out of my pocket.

And you will see that they are now suing Wives too so I wonder what they good lady will think of that.

Anyhow think it over and follow the advice you want to follow. That's your choice since your the one who will pay the PIPER.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

It always amazes me that people hear what they WANT to hear, much louder than the TRUTH when they really don't want to hear that. Funny human trait, that is.
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To The REAL King!!

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[johnny five]

hey ttrk i've said many times and others have to, thanks for everything you are doing!!!! i appreciate it so much and so should everyone else!!!!! please keep up the good work.

[kene1024]

I wholeheartedly agree. TTRK knows what he's talking about, and he's doing all of us a great service by providing the information on legal-rights.org.

You have to realize that of all the people telling you to ignore the letters, probably one or more of the following is true:

1. The individual is not an attorney (or at least not a responsible one).

2. The individual has not received a letter himself (and therefore has absolutely nothing to lose by telling *you* to forget it).

3. Perhaps the individual is a DTV troll, trying to set more people
up to get default judgements entered against them. While you're ignoring the letter, also ignore the summons that will probably come sooner rather than later, and then see what happens.

I don't know about you, but I'd hate to lose my house because some idiot told me to ignore a letter, and I didn't check it out further with an attorney. That would make *me* the idiot.

[reflog2003]

From all the posts I have read, the series of letters one receives includes: 1) 1st a generic form letter for one of the law firms 2) 2nd a follow up letter with more detailed information possibly with the name of the vendor you purchased from and a draft of the lawsuit 3) a summons for to appear in court.

My question is then, wouldn't a good plan be to ignore the first letter and hope you never receive another letter (this may be wishful thinking, but you never know since they are sending out 100,000's of letters and many of these have to be going to wrong addresses, etc. If you do receive a second letter though and do not have an excellent defense to their accusations then I would contact an attorney and have the attorney work out the best possible settlement to avoid actually getting sued which could be very expensive.

Does anyone see a fault with this plan? That is the correct series of letters, right? 1st letter, 2nd letter, summons?

So, I guess I am thinking ignoring the letter is good or bad advice depending on which letter we are talking about.

I plan to ignore the first letter, but if I receive a second letter then I will take it very seriously. And, of course someone would have to be an idiot to ingnore a summons if they receive one.

What do you think of this plan TTRK?

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Friend,

There is nothing wrong with that plan unless the letter sequence changes. But currently that sounds right to me.

But remember, there is noting WRONG with being well prepared in advance either and the lawyer who gets contacted by a defendant (on the first letter) will probably try to look into the matter but not necessarily contact them. He may ask what you purchased and where, if you have a copy of the invoice, if you can pull your credit card billings to see who the charge was to and when, if there is a shipping slip, if the shipping documents are available from the shipping company and such things. All this in preparation for a possible lawsuit in the future or to see if he can destroy their case.

He may even ask you for all you DTV bills for 6 months before and all bills subsequent to the purchase. If your rate of PPV buys has increased, he will see this as positive but if they went down drastically and you cancelled your sub to Playboy too, he may caution you that this is circumstantial evidence against you.

Generally lawyers are pretty smart and they know what can serve as "evidence" both for and against you. He may point this out and then let you know that he thinks he can get them to drop it, failing which he thinks there is evidence that will go towards proving that you did not steal anything. Or the opposite.

From THERE he can advise you as to what you should do.

So it never hurts to be prepared or to get a head start on the case, especially if you are likely to fight it. The other letters WILL follow, you can be sure of that.

So there is also NO DISADVANTAGE to starting early and get a good head start.

That depends a lot on how YOU like to do things. Personally I like to be ready for an appointment 10 minutes ahead of time but I know others who are always 10 minutes late.

Whatever works BEST for YOU is what is BESThttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[reflog2003]

You made some good points TTRK. There are some definite advantages and disadvantages to contacting a lawyer after the first letter. The advantages include getting the head start you spoke of, and possibly getting DTV to drop everthing before it goes any further, plus the peace of mind if you can get the situation resolved. The disadvantages are that you immediately have the lawyer's fee, then if they contact the law firm that sent the letter then you have opened discussions with them and are going to have to follow through to resolve it even if it costs you.

These disadvantages are only disadvantages if you consider that there is a possibility that you will never get a second letter. Again, it is wishful thinking, but I thought they might just mass mail the first letter, then possibly only mail the second letter to people who contacted them or bought lots of equipment, then only sue those who bought lots of equipment and DTV had a strong case against. If they are sending out 100,000's of letters, then there is no way they can sue everyone. If they can't sue everyone, then it would make sense to me that they would go after the biggest purchasers and their strongest cases first.

This poses a couple questions:

1) Has anyone received a first letter then never received any follow up letter?

2) Does anyone know if the the law suits which have been filed only include people who bought lots of equipment, or if some include people who just bought one programmer?

Personally, I don't mind the lawyer's fee, but what if I am unsatisfied with the best settlement the lawyer can negotiate. If you know you don't want to go to court, then you have to be prepared to pay the best settlement your lawyer can work out.

I have heard all kinds of different dollar amounts for settlements, so I wouldn't know what to expect. The uncertainty of this settlement fee is why I have not contacted a lawyer.

If DTV came out with a blanket settlement of say $1,000 + 1 year subscription + no admission of wrong doing I think they would have a lot of takers.

Do you know anything on the 2 questions I asked above TTRK? I apologize if I have missed this info in another thread.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi reflog2003

I agree with most of what you say but there is ONE substantial error in there.

They CAN and will sue everyone.

What they have done is have their regular lawyers Wilson etc. in Washington state take all these lists and separate them by state.

Then that legal firm parcels them out to various lawyers in various States on a contingency basis. They seem to give the law firm only a certain latitude and if the law firm cannot come to some arrangement (with pre set boundaries to what they can and cannot accept based on various factors) they then make the decision of what to do in WASHINGTON STATE. And if they give the go ahead to sue, the local lawyers wait until they have 7 or 9 defendants in that area and sue them all under one lawsuit. This is the clear picture that has emerged. What they did at first was different but once they had the experience of knowing how people would handle this, they then started in earnest.

That's why there have been no finalized court cases yet. They just recently began to do this on a bigger production type scale rather than on the "test" scale that they were doing earlier.

You will see the number of suits grow exponentially now that they have decided on a procedure and a degree of automatic handling of it within certain boundaries. Now they can move up to FULL SPEED.

These people are intent on doing this on a big scale and believe they are RIGHT to do it. They realize they have a substantial piracy problem but they will not admit to themselves that they brought this on themselves by using a cheap C R A P P Y technology and the wrong supplier who it seems by the canal + lawsuit act only in their own interest, not that of their clients. Is there ANYONE here who does not understand where the first fixes actually came from???.

So now that they have a problem, well the answer is to blame it on anyone else except themselves an just SUE, SUE, SUE.

EVEN the INNOCENT. They don't care because there have been no consequences for their wrongful actions SO FAR. Its like they are just LASHING OUT at anyone because of wrong decisions THEY made. They are setting out on a road that may make their company HATED by the public and they may find new subs heading SOUTH at a tremendous rate. And by the time they wake up and realize this was a bad move, it will be far too late to correct it.

But hey, that's their problem. I am SURE that most of the people reading what they are doing here have advised their friends and everyone they CAN, NOT to get involved with doing business with this company. This action sure wont get them recommended by anyone and the DISH NETWORK is catching up to them VERY FAST.

Is there any DOUBT as to WHY??http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

And in my opinion the results of what they are doing NOW will only be realized fully in the FALL when people's minds again turn to TV. They will turn TO TV and away from DirecTV®, in my opinion. Especially if people make this known.

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