I got the letter now what?

[ragingranger]

I got the dreaded letter from the end user development group. you all have read what it says in it so i won't get into but will tell you it is the excat same letter posted on legalrights. now need your opions on what people are doing and can they prove anything? i intend to ignore the letter and consult my lawyer. but i am still concerned as to what kind of power this company has please give me some advice thanks all.

[sugar ray]

the advice i have seen posted by others in this forum was to consult a lawyer. each and every case is different. it all depends on what they have on you?

did they just get your mailing adress from a dealer you purchased hardware from? did you email that dealer back explaining that your product arrived and is working great?

please do NOT answer (post) the answers to these questions. it's just a few questions you can ask yourself in your mind.

if indeed they plan on taking you to court regarding what little evidence (if any) they have on you, then they will have to present to the table what evidence they plan to use against you.

ABOVE ALL: do "NOT" try and contact them yourself and deal with them. that is one thing i have learned from reading these very usefull legal rights forums. that's exactly what they want people that get these letters to do.

i have read the legal forums until my eyes have bled. the over all conclusion i have drawn is YES it IS a serious manor once you have received a end user scare letter. ignoring it will NOT make it go away. having a coffee out with your lawyer which may be a minimul cost to you is what i pearsonally would suggest. exploring your legal options with your lawyer could save you a ton of pain as apposed to trying to deal with things your self.


again these are just "MY" views. basing my opinons on what i have read throughout the legal rights forums. DTV has alot of money and they are NOT scared to use it when it comes to chasing down piracy. they have, can, and will be nasty!

good luck with it!







;)

[ragingranger]

I never once sent them email telling them I had received the product. the only way I can figure they got my address from one or 2 two places were from kick a-- clone or white viper i dealted with white viper like 2 years ago and kick a-- about 1 year ago but never any correspondence with email thanks

[To The Real King!!]

Hi ragingranger
,

Both the posters here are giving you exactly the right information. The part about the E-mail is not to tell you where they got your name, both of the places you purchased were raided.

It is to let you know THAT is how they get more evidence, if you emailed the vendors. Its not known for sure but its LIKELY they have all the emails so if the vendor got a courtesy E-mail from you saying it worked well, that is further circumstantial proof against you. And they will check your sub, if you have one, and if your PPV purchases went down or you cancelled a football package, they will use that as evidence against you too.

In fact they go harder against subscribers than those who do not have a sub.

People who bought from any DSS vendor but did not get the letter yet may want to cancel their sub and get a dish network system. They may have a lot of difficulty proving you stole from them if you have a DISH NETWORK system.

So do not think they will go easier on those who have a sub with them because the lawyers have reported that is the EXACT opposite. We cannot tell you what to do but there is information that could help you posted at:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/subharmful.html

and in general there is much info here:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTVBOX.html

that ould assist you in the matter of these letters. And there are lawyers listed who have experience which may help you too.

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[rockfordpi]

TTRK,

I am glad to see some discussion about the role that DISH could play in these cases. I hope my previous post about this helped stir some of the greater minds here to contemplate that side of the issue.

It still seems like if DISH would announce and agree to grant amnesty in exchange for a three year sub, they could pick up many subscribers and everyone would win. My friend only did Dish net cards and it is going to be hard for dave to prove he used that equipment on DTV cards. Yes, he bought the more flexible and universal unlooper, he had to so he could flash it with the Dishnet code as ISO programmers are not flashable I don't think.

I know there are criminal issues involved as well, but if the Sat. company that was damaged is happy, I can't see the feds jumping in this to go after a end user who already has reached an agreement with the damaged party. Dave seems a bit arrogant to ASSUME that EVERYONE who bought something bought it to steal HIS signal. There were a lot of other good signals there to hack as well.

It know the legal system is not always logical, but it is crazy in that DTV can sue someone for damages for buying equipment that they used to hack echo and bell signals. Whats next, the AT&T sueing the executives from worldcomm for defrauding worldcomm share holders? This is crazy.

[ragingranger]

so TTRK are you saying it is a good idea to subscribe to Dishnet? to fake em out? does that work? but aren't programers and unloopers legal to have? thanks for the info!

[sugar ray]

makes a whole "HELL" of alot of sense now that i put it into perspective! T.T.R.K. you mentioned that dave is going after subscribers (mainly ones with a basic sub) more so then guys who just bought hardware and have NO subbs.


it totally makes sense why dave would go after subscribers. due to the fact that dave has (little if any) evidence that a subscriber purchased hardware designed for smart cards. so in dave's mind, he is saying, "hey! joe smith of las vegas purchased an ISO smart card reader from white viper. we have a shipping receipt to prove this. joe smith also only has a minimum subscription with us. putting one & one together tells me he is using that smart card reader to hack into our smart cards!"

with a subscription for joe smith. dave KNOWS that joe smith has a dss DTV unit. with a shipping receipt dave also knows, (or thinks he knows) that joe smith also owns a ISO. what dave can NOT prove is if joe smith actually used his harware to compromise the card.

where-as, someone who just purchased hardware and has NO subscription. it would be even harder for dave to prove a NON-subscribers guilt. guess dave would look pretty dumb if he went after a NON-subscriber and it turned out that this NON-subscriber purchased a ISO programmer for the only system he or she owned, dishnetwork!

interesting times. ROCKFORDPI: you raise a very interesting point to why it's very hard to find information on previously settled. end user civil cases.

[trapstir]

Go to the legal.rights page, I went through alot of the cases there including the florida case. Looks like alot of people are being dismised from the suits. I don't see were DTV's Attorneys are having much luck in the courts. They may need to stick to the threat thing and hope they can collect that way. Just my thoughts.

[REDx]

the settlement price i know of
is 1,800.00. i know the people
i know 1 of the attorneys the
number of people i know personally
who have the letter is now over 12.
the difference is what agreement
the people end up signing.
as far as the endusers group is
concerned all i know is what i read.
when someone emails me for advice
i refer them to:
http://www.legal-rights.org/uslawyer.html

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

Some of you are really getting the idea now.

This whole thing is about threats and intimidation, not Real Evidence.

Have you EVER heard of someone sending you a sample lawsuit before they sue you. That is done to further intimidate. And they have more info on their own subs than anyone else.

So if you have not got the letter yet but you did buy, then you will get it. If you have no satellite OR you have a dish network system, then HOW could you steal DirecTV®. the DISH system cannot receive DirecTV®.

Now someone could make the implication that you got the programmer to hack DISH but nobody is suing you about that. The court will not be interested in that and if they asked you say no and nobody will refute that. So it may be wise to read this particular page and be sure not to have anything to do with a company who wants to terrorize you and grab you for money. Even if your just now considering a satellite system, get one that wont get you into problems for buying a legal programmer. Get a Dish system and have nothing to do with DirecTV® now or ever. It may go a long way to saving your bacon too.:

http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/subharmful.html

Do you really EVER want to encourage someone who is intent on HARMING YOU. And if you have even a FULL SUB they will allege that you did it to steal their PPV events so NO SUB will help you in any way. But a Dish network one makes it difficult to prove that you stole DirecTV®. How can you do that with a Dish system?http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[ragingranger]

Hey TTRK, I live like out in the woods and I do mean the woods, my question is how the hell will thay even know if I have a dish period. They can't just stroll on my property to see if i have a dish on the house, that would be trespassing right? So what proff would they have then besides the invoice from one of those companies? Like I said before I had never email them about how my device worked or even asked for tech support, just placed an order and my deivce arrived to me. So what would that prove? so what I have a device, just wanted to see what it was and ordered it. Thanks for all your help

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

The usual way this goes is that people hire a lawyer and the lawyer tries to negotiate the best deal he can. Probably the best deal is where they simply DROP the issue with both parties paying their own costs. In order to negotiate that the lawyers have MOUTHS and they will talk. You lawyer would say " he has a Dish Network system, not a DirecTV® system so how COULD he even steal. You bluff is full of hogwash and if you continue this we will see you in court and with a countersuit."

Nobody went into the woods to see what you have :)

In order to negotiate properly your LAWYER gets instructions and information from YOU. And he can negotiate based on YOUR input to him. Don't go and see a lawyer and fail to give him any information. Its not a question of telling "you handle it Joe". You have to help him and give him all the ammunition that you possibly can and telling him that its impossible to steal DirecTV® with a DISH network system is one of the best ammo he will have.

Get the idea???

If this is a case of BLUFF, Intimidate and pseudo-logic, two can play that game.

Don't you folks have ANY idea how this goes? It does not involve people trespassing and going to see what kind of dish you have. Its a GAME of negotiation and bluff and like any war your side needs ammunition. Enough said!!!http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[ragingranger]

Well saw my lawyer today and told him I was not receiving a dtv signal. I also told him yes I purchased the equipment, but it was for a home security project that I had thought of doing but didn't work out so I sold all my equipment. he also informed me that this was a harrassing letter and that the state I live in does not condone that so he was sending it to the state attorneys general here and in calif maybe also a letter to the place that sent the original letter. So Ya see from what I found out they are harrassing me and ALL OTHERS PERIOD. Fight them back all!In turn if they continue I can sue them back. Thanks for all the help guys and to TTRK keep all advice coming!!!!

[Arlodawg]

Sending the letters to the state attorney general is a very good idea. But don't be surprised when Directv lies to the state attorney general about what you bought.
If you don't mind, keep us posted on the attorney generals reply.
EVERYONE should send their letters to their state attorney general!!!!

[REDx]

by all means if you purchased
the equipment for something
other than progaming dtvs cards.
call the the D.A.report his ass.
BUT!!! if you have EVER programed
a card. the last person you want
involved is the calif.attorney gen.
right now all you are talking about
being out is some money.you get the
D.A. involved you could be looking at
jail.by the way what is the phone
number for the d.a.'s consumer fraud
division? what department did he file
it with? also if its the consumer fraud
division ask for Trent he sould be very
sympathetic with your cause ;)

[ragingranger]

Letter from my lawyer is on the way to the end users group asking for an apology and asking that they never send another letter to me again. my lawyer was pissed off at the tone of the letter saying we were gulity even before there was any prof he also sent the letter to my state attorney genral and to CA gonna fight this all the way.. one more thing war is on and they can bluff all they want, my lawyer said we will counter them for harrasment suit.... they are not allowed to send that type of letter in my state plus it is impossible to steal there signal with out a dish period get the picture.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi ragingranger,

Sounds to me sir like you have their number. Not everyone has the great case you have with no DirecTV® dish but when I hear about people who do and who WILL fight them, it really makes my day.

Somehow, someone is going to hammer them and the courts are going to hit them for "abuse" of the system. Their blanket accusations are outrageous and are the equivalent to accusing everyone in Chicago who has a kitchen knife, because someone gets stabbed.

Its pretty obvious that anyone typing "access card programmer" into Google or any good search engine will come up with a PLETHORA of DSS dealers who sell them. How on earth would this person become aware of what a contentious issue exists here. He would just visit the site, see that the programmer does what he needs and order the damn thing. Its not a big deal or a life or death decision today with prices under $200.00 and sometimes under $100.00. To make such a big deal of this and make accusations of theft across the board is BOUND TO PISS off some very legitimate people.

Lets just HOPE that they do this to the WRONG person, maybe that sir, is YOU.

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