Some thoughts and ???'s on letters and lawsuits

[bullseye]

I have been reading all the informative posts regarding the letters and lawsuits. I first would like to thank TTRK for all his time and effort to help all of us. There are many other s who have contributed as well, and I thank you as well.

I always seem to have random thoughts after reading, and this is the first time I have put them down in a thread, so PLEASE bare with me.

I understand the best thing to do is consult a lawyer for peace of mind and legal advice. I'm cool with this. Now let's say you bought a programmer and nothing else. You don't own or subscribe to DTV. As I have read time and time again, the lawyers will have a difficult if not impossible time proving you have done anything illegal with that ISO programmer. So I ask in a cut to the chase manner, why not defend yourself? Simply put, how can I be found guilty for something that no matter how they slice and dice it, they have ZERO proof that you have used this legal device in any illegal fashion? Of course I say this tongue and cheek.

But in closing arguements, whether it be a lawyer or just regular Joe Citizen, when he or she says "There is zero proof or evidence showing/proving/documenting/making the connection/ etc. of my client/myself using that device to steal DTV" Isn't that the crux of the arguement? Isn't that lack of evidence in itself, regardless of how much technical information DTV lawyers provide, how the programmer might be used for illegal activites, how much piracy is costing them, etc. enough to dismiss or win the case on your own behalf?

Another thought has come to mind. Let's say Joe College student gets a letter. Joe has credit card debt of $10k, college loans and federal grants totalling $50k. He has a old car that for all purposes is worthless. And he maybe works a part time work study job for minimum wage. He has NO $$$ for a lawyer, and in all reality, could not pay a judgement totaling $1000, let alone $100k. Do you think the firms run credit checks to decide if they want to pursue a lawsuit? I mean, will they really waste time and $$$ suing someone when for all intensive purposes they willl never collect a judgement?

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Bullseye,

Your questions are quite logical but there is more to this than meets the eye. While they DO want money part of their purpose is to set an example for PUBLICITY purposes.

What they want is to cut down on their piracy problem. Instead of acknowledging that they have used a crappy security system by a possible "Pirate" (according to depositions in the Canal + affair) they expect to win anyway regardless of the screw ups they made.

So yes they will go up against anyone because they want a default judgement that is LARGE so that they can use it in their publicity. That is one of their MAIN goals.

But the issue is NOT quite so clear as you see it. Most defendants are NOT all that realistic as to what they have and have not done and what they can realistically expect. And sometimes the "circumstantial" evidence is much worse that the defendant realizes. And that is the truth. So a intelligent lawyer is needed to bring people down to reality since that's the only way a settlement is possible. When EVER you go into a court, there is a chance that you will be the loser. SOMEONE will WIN and SOMEONE will LOSE.

And it wont always be DirecTV® who lose.

So this needs to be looked at realistically and in a down to earth manner.

Next there is the fact that if a defendant slips up, the JIG is over. They will use the recording against you and you are probably cooked.

But the lawyer has lots of leeway. He can say he got defendants mixed up or any of a number of things. And the bottom line he is also an accomplished bluff and must convince them that there is a price for which you settle and for which beyond that, you will go to court.

Frankly most of you (not all) are just not the greatest at negotiation. Lawyers are PRACTISED at mediation and negotiation and as they are NOT talking for themselves, they have a lot of leeway.

Nut if anyone THINKS they can do a good job themselves, go AHEAD. But at the end of the day you will find that those with a lawyer will have done MUCH better than those without and that includes LEGAL fees. So probably Mr. Zakarian can negotiate his $400.00 fee and the settlement of say $1800.00 or a total of $2200.00 when the defendant alone would probably spend $3500.00 to settle it. I have seen this time and time again.

Don't believe me, please feel free to go ahead and negotiate alone. But here is a comment from one lawyer that I received today among some 20 others. This is the end of the letter but is TYPICAL


Unfortunately, my client attempted to negotiate his own deal before realizing he was in over his head. Please keep reminding people to talk to an attorney before acting on their own.


I have said this TIME and TIME again but people often do not believe me but even an innocent statement can queer all possibilities and increase the settlement by $2,000.00 to $2,500.00. But if you don't think so then please be my guest and go it alone.

But anyone who wants to use a lawyer DO NOT CALL THEM LEST THAT QUEER THE WHOLE THING. Lawyers work with a strategy and any calling you do can screw that up.

Good in fact excellent legal advice can be seen on this website. Where it says police, you write in DirecTV®.

http://www.cyberlawaz.com/DUI%20Aggravated%20DWI.html

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT and shut UP !!!http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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Thanks & Good Luck,
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To The REAL King!!

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[bullseye]

TTRK, thank you for such a quick and informative response. Although I never, ever would call any lawfirm and try to settle anything myself, I was just curious as to the some of the points I was thinking.

I was under the impression that the lawfirms "representing" DTV are telemarketers first, lawyers second. Meaning they would much rather settle than go to court. (Although I'm sure all lawyers would rather settle than go to court) I'm not taking away their abilities to sue you and be a pain in your ass, but it seems like this is not where their expertise lies.

Although I have never read anything specific, I also was under the impression that the firms make its $$$ thru settlements and split or share the winnings with DTV. Much like the way a salesman who works on commision earns his or her $$$. DTV gets the exposure and some $$$, minus the hassles of filing lawsuits,minus the cost of keeping multiple lawfirms in every state on retainer, while the lawfirms get a share of the prize. No settlements or court victories = no $$$ for the lawyer. Again, like a salesman who works on commision.

Therefore, a case that may be harder to prove, such as the one I described (ISO programmer, no subscription, plus maybe someone who is not financially sound) would not be in the firm's best interests, as opposed to someone who cancelled their memberships or lowered viewing packages after buying multiple unloopers, programmers, bootstraps, loaders, etc. who is middle class, family, car payments, mortage, etc. This type of person has a hell of a lot more to loose than the guy I described earlier..



Hi Bullseye,

I think you are right about how these lawyers get paid and about the ease or difficulty of settlement. But They may have guidelines and have to turn it back to the Washington lawyers for any final settlements. And they may go to court on a difficult lawsuit as a FURTHER part of their bluff. Remember they can withdraw at anytime if they make a settlement. I would not doubt that they would go this far with a bluff and probably do. They file suits and if they eventually think they will lose, they will drop it before it goes to a jury. But they also increase the chances that a defendant will settle too since the suit is no longer threatened but has actually Been filed.

They have a lot of strategy here and you never now what they are really up to. Sometimes they may file just for the publicity value of letting others know they WILL SUE and they get reporters into the game to report it. Even if they withdrew the case later on they would not necessarily report that so the value of trying to scare people by the publicity is still valid

Personally I would not trust anything they do. Its all about making up for the fact that they took a risk and used ----ty inferior technology so now they must "scare" people to try to cut piracy down. And I am sure the bluff works with some people and with others it ensures they will never go near a DirecTV® satellite system. Lots of people tell me that these letters will keep them from ever buying DirecTV® and I understand that and I cannot say I blame themhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

To The REAL King!!

[REDx]

part of the problem is that
to defend yourself you are
going to spend way over.
2,200.00 and the odds are
you will lose in the first
round.on appeal you stand
a better chance.the fileing
fee not includeing attorney's
fee's for a civil appeal is
around 3,500 give or take a
couple hundred.
in America you only get as much
justice as you can afford.:mad:

[bullseye]

Thanks for your input REDx. I was hoping you might be able to go into a little more detail as to the costs of defending yourself in a civil proceeding. I have very little knowledge about the inner workings of our legal system, other than what I have seen on "The People's Court" and "Judge Judy" lol. I assume there are court fees, but am unsure how much those are? I also was under the impression that court fees are paid by the person suing? I did sue someone once in small claims and it cost me only 12 bucks in court costs. I imagine that this dosen't apply here? Also, the 3500 bucks or so you described to appeal a decision, is that another court fee, or something else? And one last thing, is it true in a civil proceeding, you have to supply your own council and there are no court appointed lawyers?

[REDx]

to file an answer to a suite is between
150.00 and 500.00 depending how you do
it. this doesnt include attorneys fee's.
then comes discovery this can get exspensive.
but its also the fun part. here you get to
give it to ole dtv and vice versa lol.
its true you have got to get your own lawyer.
some thing to remeber JUDGE JUDY is a tv show
and is by no means a example of a civil case.
right and wrong dont come into play in a real
trial. only the law and proceedures. one miss
step and your toast. what i was getting at about
the appeal. is that the circumstancel evidence
will be such the judge for the most part will
side with Dtv. you will be placed on the defenecive.
this is wrong so it can be used in your appeal.
no matter lets say you win. DTV will appeal.ya
see he cant let you win. if you do then the flood
gates open. it amazes me to listen to people who
want to go toe to toe with a multibillion dollar
corp. as i have said before you only
get as much justice as you can afford in the good
old U.S.ofA.
ill go ya one better my company did the electrical
hard wireing for a smart card security system.
the Litronic's rep gave me a netsignia 210 with
software.if for some reason i was to get the letter
from Dtv's lawyers i would settle. i would stand a
very good chance of winning in court.
lol whats funny is i didnt know it could be used
to alter dtv cards .till after i purchased a reader
writer lol.i never open the package the reader/writer
came in. i gave it away.
i dont know how the 3,500.00 breaks down all i know is
i paid 3245.00 to appeal a suite i lost. i won on appeal.
the guy went bankrupt.so i got a default.didnt get a dime
i spent 13,000.00 lol.but by god i won lmao.

[bullseye]

Great response REDx! That is exactly the type of info I was hoping to hear. I know that even if you win in court, DTV can and most likely will appeal costing one even more $$$. BTW, I was just kidding about comparing Judge Judy to civil law.. Although, I bet she would loose her mind on DTV for these frivilous lawsuits!