NEW TACTIC BY DTV - SOUNDS LIKE AN ADVANTAGE TO YOUHi Folks,

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Folks,

I just got a letter confirming what I believed was a new tactic by the "end users group" at DirecTV®. I think they may just have cooked their goose and that we will now see more lawsuits and losses by DirecTV® on their outrageous "economic terrorism" as I call it.

When one side digs in their heels and demands something with no flexibility, it shows the GREED coming out and it spells the end for their successes. They have successfully negotiated settlements with people because the lawyers they appointed were flexible as needed. This obviously because many people were NOT guilty of their claims. Now they will demand $3500.00 even when the defendant is innocent and this is just one push too far in my opinion.

So far they had unfortunately extorted as I call it, maybe $1,000.00 or so from people who had no guilt at all simply because it was the cheapest way to deal with this problem. But once that is no longer the case, watch the lawsuits FLY in all directions along with countersuits. And they will NOT get convictions in many of the cases where they had previously received settlements.

I believe this is the best thing that could have happened and is the start of their waterloo.

Here is the E-Mail that I received which confirms this.


TTRK,

You and I have communicated before, I have read nearly everything you and others have posted, and I have followed your informed wisdom every step of the way. I am reluctant to post this on the website right now, since my attorney has already initiated contact, but you are welcome to use this information as you see fit.

The End User Group's investigator reported to my attorney that they have records (email order, invoice, payment and shipping docs) for the purchase of a White Viper Reader/Writer. They would not send him copies of the records, but claimed to be reading from them as they spoke. They also said they have no other information. They asserted that the only possible use of the Viper card Reader/Writer was to illegally intercept DTV's transmissions. They said this particular device can only use DTV's access cards and not anyone elses (I am aware of all of your prior comments on this ridiculous assertion).__They made a one time offer to settle all claims for $3500. "Take it or expect to be sued." They admitted that when attorneys were handling these matters, some settlements may have been lower, but DTV's Investigative Dept. now has a "no negotiation" policy.

I have been a customer of DTV's (very soon to change) for about 3 years, and I no longer purchase pay per view. Even though I have not stolen their signal, I have no records that would prove legitimate use of the card reader. I realize that I need to settle, but I cannot find any information on whether or not this "new no negotiation policy" is true. If it is, then I can see some advantage in allowing this to evolve to attorney-attorney negotiations, provided there is an intermediate step prior to a summons (no guarantees, I know). I would certainly like to know your thoughts on this new, non-negotiable stance, and if others have been able to have any success in dealing with them short of saying "bring it on."

In my attorney's response to me, he stated: "As it was apparent that Mr._____ is a functionary with no discretion, I made no effort to point out statutory and other proof arguments in our favor, e.g. that while possession may be subject to criminal penalties, there is no civil cause of action available to DTV for mere possession, but only for actual interception and use."

You are providing a wonderful service to so many, and I will continue to keep you updated from my end.
Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
name removed


Here is what I answered so that you can see what my feelings are. But I have seen lately a change of attitude by the lawyers and I believe this is the reason. Most are now beginning to FIGHT which they should.

Here is my answer.

Hi XXXXXXX,

Many thanks for this information and this new “no negotiation” deal is new but totally ridiculous. They seem to now be getting ultra greedy since these deals must be negotiated because of exactly the reason your lawyer states which is quite important in many States.

This will never work and I will take advantage of your kind offer to post this information (but without ID).

I believe its VERY important for people to know this and to therefore NOT agree to any settlement above a certain offer (for example $1000.00 say). This leaves the onus on DirecTV® and you can show that you tried to negotiate. I believe any offer of settlement by defendants now should be made in WRITING so that it cannot later be denied. If they can be non-flexible, so can defendants :)

They KNOW if they lose any of these in court that it will set up “case law” and that they wont be able to easily intimidate people in the future. Its very important that everyone know about this turn of events so that people do NOT agree to this. Its totally unacceptable and I believe many of the lawyers on the case will NOT agree to it in any way. I will also send this to some of the lawyers so that they are aware of this new “policy.” Lawyers LOVE to negotiate but this crap will never be accepted.

I am very glad to hear this because I believe that DirecTV® just cut off their head to spite their face and that they will now come up against just such an intransigent attitude from the lawyers too. Both sides can play this game and it may harm them a LOT more than it helps them.

Many thanks again for this new important information and its very much a pleasure to see people now beginning to cooperate in a big way to help each other. This too may stem from the helpless feeling that the lack of a willingness to negotiate makes happen.

Please do keep me informed because I think we are now going to see many of these cases go to court which frankly is the only real way to stop these people. A few losses in court should put the kibosh to their “economic terrorism” once and for all. So I believe this will result in many lawsuits, very few negotiations (what is to negotiate with people who state this) and the beginning of many losses for them. I have suspected that most innocent people would NOT negotiate but I was quite wrong with this. People prefer to settle than face a long crappy court event but this changes all the rules. I think we will see a very different attitude now and its one that I like and I believe will result in many WINS for defendants who did no wrong.

Best of luck,

To The REAL King!!

So that's it folks. A GREEDY new policy because they did get some settlements. These people just keep on pushing the envelope and they will do so until they lose. That is near where we are NOW and this will help a LOT.

So its GOOD news and I doubt that most lawyers will have anything to do with this and will now begin to launch counter suits and hire Smart Card experts from local universities. What they say (about the ONLY use of these devices) is totally ludicrous but its not difficult to prove just how wrong this is. And as experts make themselves KNOWN, I will post their names and contacts on the legal-rights.org website. http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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Thanks & Good Luck,
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To The REAL King!!

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[dmattear]

i read something earlier abuout someone contacting them and they said for purchases of 1-8 items the price was $3500. i feel we may see some light at the end of the tunnel. good work ttrk.

[gunsmoke2]

They KNOW if they lose any of these in court that it will set up “case law” and that they wont be able to easily intimidate people in the future.


Absolutely and I hope someone goes to trial because I personnaly think DTV's case is weak with no evidence that you received their signal without payment just because you bought some hardware device.



GS2

[JD490]

IS this just with the "END Users Group" Has anyone else had this kind of response from any of the other law firms sending the letters.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Folks,

From what I have been told this is just the "end user group" and not the lawyers themselves. Since it does not make much sense it may be that they take a stab at it and then, if unsuccessful, they turn it over to one of the lawyers.

Since this is a recent change, its not clear exactly how this plays out yet.

But it appears to me that this will only cause the lawyers defending people to get their backs up and begin to win lawsuits against them. Anyone who adopts this intransigent position in what must be a negotiation, is bound to find their opponent becoming hard nosed as well.

I believe they may have found that this whole effort of sending these letters was costing them money and not recovering their costs of operations. But I believe this attitude is even less likely to accomplish anything positive.

So we are going to have to wait and see how it plays out in the short term. They likely do not know what this will bring either. The problem they have is that they probably WERE wronged in some cases but that is not likely to be a high percentage of the people who purchased things unknowingly from these vendors. But they do not know which cases are which so they bluff everyone. Now they may be disappointed to find out that many of these people who get the letters actually did nothing and so they push even harder since they really do not know. They have no evidence of "signal theft" at all and are suing based only on a purchase.

I believe that people who did not "steal" anything from them will be acquitted in court and this will form "case law" that can harm them in all their cases.

So this attitude may inadvertently push more people to defend the lawsuit causing them major losses. Many of the lawyers who have just recently undertaken cases involving this really think the letters are outrageous and that DirecTV® will not be able to win in their state. So there will be many more actual lawsuits that they may proceed with or actually drop if they realize they will lose. So what this needs now is a little time to play out.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif


http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrkblack.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/rotate_rib.gif
To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/satelliterights.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif

Please REMEMBER OUR WAR HERO’S (http://www.legal-rights.org/remembrance.html) <-- Click here Please!


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[JD490]

I noticed that in the bottom of the letter it said Direct tv was turning it over to them to try and get somthing out of me, but I have never been contacted before by the "End users group". I wonder also if they are not happy about people posting up here what there lower amount of money they will go to when negoitating. I would suggest that people not post here what they are offered when negoitating with them. I would think each attorny taking the case looks better to his or her boss if they can get that last dollor out of you. Also it could be the closer they come to going all the way in Florida they might be just trying to get as much out of it as they can. Go out with a bang.

[ragingranger]

Hey I think the more people here brain storming the better everyone in the end will be. Its like forming a cyber gang againest these a-holes so lets get it together people. Don't be afraid to post because you are afraid of them not negoitating with you come on thats bull-s---. The more people have to go againest them the better chance we all have of them backing down thats the bottom line.

[hax0r]

TTRK,

I think you're right on the money. If Dave is stupid enough to take someone to court because they bought an ISO7816 computer interface, and make the ridiculous claim that it works ONLY with Dave's access cards and no other kinds, Dave is going to get his arrogant, greedy as handed to him.

[SammyBoy]

My question is, what is DTV doing with the money they are collecting? Are they sharing this money with the program providers like HBO, Showtime, PPV promoters, Porn Channels? If they're not, why are these companies not suing DTV?

[lamedss]

I remember seeing White Viper's Website. They only had links to legimate sources that would enable you utilize an ISO programmer. They did not have a file download section. They might have updated the site and that's why they got busted. But I do remember the links page that showed Microsoft and other legimate sites.

Just a thought.

[REDx]

a couple of things are interesting
here.
first before they sue there will be
a demand letter from there lawyer.
at that time ill wager the attorney
will negocate. 3,500 deal is just a
negociation tactic, some people will
take it. if you dont have a attorney
experinced in these matters he may
even advise you to take it.
second i never thought about it but
it would appear your lawyer is correct.
its not a civil matter to own a signal
theft device. it is a civil matter to
use it.
im going have to think about this some
more,and do a lot more reading.
god i love this place:)

[JD490]

From what I have read if Dave can find a dealer advertising on a web site that is devoted to hacking they will go after them. I would think it would not be wise to try and say white viper was a ligament business when they have already been deemed in court as selling devices that was being used to steel DTV programming, but just because someone bought something from them doesn't mean it was used to hack DTV. Although in the end most people will settle with them because it is just hard to prove what you did with them. Unless you have a job working with smart cards for some company. I'm sure a few of these cases will get swept up. As far as where is the money going I think Dave sold these cases to Law firms much like a debt is sold to a collection agency. Basically you are paying there Attorney fees when you settle. I would bet if one of these Law firms looses big time in court they will pull the plug on this.

JD

[To The Real King!!]

Hi JD490,

Just an opinion but I do not think its safe to say that White Viper or any of these defendants have been found guilty across the board. I think some of them may have settled in some way because that was the less expensive way to go. But I am not sure that any court found total guilt here.

Some of the defendants may also have sold a variety of products, some of which may have been illegal and some not. That is the problem with the courts, if they find one thing may be an infringement they may deem everything that way for one defendant and NOT for another. But a buyer who got there from a search engine would not necessarily know anything about this. He needs a ISO-7816 programmer and he does not care about satellite at all. And if the company was actively selling, its unlikely that there were any raids at that time. So the prospective buyer would assume that all was perfectly legal. After all, you do not expect illegal products to be soled openly on so many sites. That alone is a circumstantial defence in my view. Even of they WERE found guilty of something a year later, who would know that once they have purchased. People often have no more contact with the vendor.

So I am not sure which defendants, if any have been found guilty or if any who were are appealing either.

But remember a vendors guilt need NOT affect a buyer who does nothing illegal. Possession is NOT a cause of guilt in a civil matter even if it can be in criminal affairs. So the vendor's situation is no reflection on the buyer, even if DirecTV® want you to think it is. And these are CIVIL matters, not criminal.

I believe that DirecTV® thinks that anyone selling a ISO-7816 programmer is 100% guilty in their view but that is not necessarily true.

If a product like a Radar detector is illegal in one state and not illegal in another, is it the VENDOR who is illegal or the user?

This is uncertain but I don't see any illegality in selling an ISO-7816 programmer if the site did not have a files section or did not supply programs that defeat DTV's encryption in their cards. There is a difference between vendors that supply all parts of the puzzle and those who just sell ISO-7816 programmers but offer no files. Yet the products may be the same but the one who supplies the programs and programmer may have a different degree of guilt by the fact that he offers this and mentions this as a primary use. Not all vendors did that.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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Thanks & Good Luck,
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/rotate_rib.gif
To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/satelliterights.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif

Please REMEMBER OUR WAR HERO’S (http://www.legal-rights.org/remembrance.html) <-- Click here Please!


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[JD490]

I agree with you on that. Dave is just like cornered rabid dog snapping at anything because they now know there attempts at trying to secure there signal has failed miserably.

[dmattear]

noticed today that dtv had first-class mail cards going to majority of houses offering two room hookups for 29.99. odd. most of these type mailings are sent bulk rate to save money on the mailings. if i had one i would scan it. work put me where i could see this. can not take one if first-class mail.