locate?

[ipavlov]

To someone smarter than I:

How would the ambulance-chasers go about locating someone who has moved? This is, of course, assuming that you didn't leave a forwarding addy and you don't have a judgement against you (which I believe is public knowledge). I'm curious about the legal (and illegal ways they could do this). Can they query the credit bureaus?DMVs? SSN?

[sirjohna]

I will explain what happened to me (non DSS related).

I acceptted a job in the US, went to Miami for 1 week and then West Covena for 2 weeks. Then I moved to OKC.

Well I disconnected my phone in Canada when I went to Miami and had a bill, well since my mail was being re-directed (which going from Canada to US really sucks) after I moved to OKC, the bill was really overdue.

So 2 weeks after being in OKC (Oklahoma City) my phone rang and it was the phone company back home asking if I was going to pay the bill. I explained I had not received it yet, but I was going to pay it. After I hung up I thought, how the hell did they find me so quick.

So they have some really nice ways, because this was 7 years ago.

So they have alot of way, I have no idea how the did, but if they want to find you they can.

[JD490]

A good investigator could easily find you if you have a real life unless you live like the unibomber in a shack. The phone companies have a system for unpaid bills. They usually won't let you start up another phone service until you pay off the old phone company. IF you dodge a summons they can run an add in 3 newspapers and mail you the summons if you don't show up you get a default judgment. Check some of the dockets on www.legal-rights.org. This has happened. I have heard that these guys ended up with 75k judgments against them OUCH.:(

[Lager]

Ok, practically speaking Dave isn't going to do a whole hell of a lot when it comes to the situation at hand. At most (think 100K defendants) they would likely be willing to pay 25-35 bucks for a 'locate'. Our company is very very low priced (we are damn good and fast=volume) compared to real companies that do what we do. We don't bother with things like you credit report. To give you an idea, I would get a copy of anyones phone bill that I know you know. If they are calling you I will have your phone number. I would check with the cable, electric, water, gas and phone companies to see if you left them a forwarding address. I would run your ssn thru the larger cell phone companies like sprint, att, verizon, cricket etc to see if you have an active or previous account. I would get you last bill and see who you were calling if you had one as well as whatever address you had on file with them. The IRS is a no-no. Nobody including the government can obtain your tax records unless a court orders it and you are under inditement. That doesn't mean you cannot obtain that info, but taxes are paid quarterly and knowing where you worked 3 months ago isn't normally worth much when the person has moved. Of course I would also run you thru any local utility companies in the area where I thought you had moved to (if I had that kinda lead already). That is just some of the things we would do to find you. In short, if you really really want to hide, put nothing in your name when you move, don't give friends or relatives your phone number (call them but not collet) and get a pre-paid cell phone in the state of a relative so you don't have to get the bill yourself. Dave isn't going to persue people that take more than a directory assistance call to locate. IF someone finds out that Dave or someone affiliated with them had accessed their credit file in an effort to locate them (I can easily see this happening) you have a slam dunk law suit against them for violation the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Unless you are asking them for a line of credit or you *already* owe them money then they cannot access your credit without your permission. Them wanting to sue you isn't a legal reason to run your credit.


Lager

[ipavlov]

Lager,

Wow, that was an eye-opener. I presume that you do this for a living. I guess I was naive about one's abilities. I didn't realize you could call companies and attempt to query them about an individual. Do they always comply with you? Also, might I ask, these methods i.e. probing the utilities, etc., are they *legal*, or gray? My curiosity is defintely heightened.

Thanks,
Pavlov

[Lager]

Obtaining information (in the manner my company does) is perfectly leagal. We have (in the past) done work for 3 federal law enforcement agencies in the US. They had to clear our methods prior to doing work so they would not have our information be the cause of having a case thrown out. I won't say how we obtain most of our information but I will say this much. If you pay someone at said utility company to get the info you are breaking the law. If they unknowingly give it to you then they are liable civily but nobody is on the hook in a criminal manner. There is no 'hacking' involved and it is about 90% phone work. The absolute one nono is anything IRS related. While we have access to that kind of thing we never use it (one gov angency told us to stop doing it). Both Dateline and 48 Hours have run shows regarding people who do what we do. Without giving my company away I can say that we were actually on one of those programs as well as a couple of spots on AMW regarding missing persons cases. On the original topic, anyone can be found if you are willing to spend the money. To give you an idea of why I say Dave isn't going to take it far.....Just about everyone has heard of US Search doing what they call a 'locate' for $50. What they actually do is run a few cheesy public data bases and send you a list of anyone with the same name (or similar) that you are looking for. It doesn't matter to companies such as this that you didn't get an actual address but something more like a mailing list (typically with old address). You get that kind of info for $50. That is one end of the spectrum. We are on the other end. As I stated before, we are very very reasonable in out pricing structure considering the level of service we provide. We get 200$ to tell you where someone lives or 200$ to tell you where they work. We typically find around 95% of the people we look for. We only look for people that other companies have attempted to find already. The 5% that we don't locate? It comes down to losing money to find them. There are others that are on the same level of quality (giving you good info) as us but they typically start in the $350 range. Dave simply isn't going to pay that kind of up front costs for someone on the scale of these scare letters. This is why I have said in the past that I would never reccomened someone signing for a certified letter and marking it moved/no fwd.

Lager

I know I didn't really give you an indepth answer to your question but it's the nature of the business.

[POTI]

There is a great book called how to hide your identity by John A Newman veyr good read...doesn't help most of you now as you were not implementing these tatics when you purchased your EQ....but you may wish to start them now..

not sure what press made the book as it doesn't say on my copy. I picked it up at defcon2 so its quiet old.

[FrostedGlass]

Don't know about that exact book title, but similar ones can be found at loompanics website.

[ipavlov]

Lager, POTI, et.al.,

Thank you guys for the good info - I have already begun to look for the books. I have been increasingly fearful of privacy issues, particularly since the US Executive branch has gone Orwelian in this post 9/11 world. DTV has illustrated the dangers of the naivete most have with regards to privacy matters. Now, the innocent will suffer with the rest. Thanks DAVE.

Pavlov