Bootloader

[XIS]

What are the legal uses for a bootloader?

Thanks

[ceho]

Well if its shipped with a blank atmel you could claim you used it as a carrying case for your DTV card(s) ;) lol

[Lurker]

paperwieght? doorstop? conversation piece?

[XIS]

I take this lack of response to mean there are NO legal uses for a bootloader and that it can only be used for DSS use?

[Salty Jizm]

I take the lack of response to be a very polite way of saying "This question has been answered numerous times and you ought to learn how to use the Search button."

TTRK is one of the more in depth posters on this topic and his time is too valuable to be wasted helping the Free-TV crowd one at a time when they refuse to help themselves.

[XIS]

Sorry, I wasnt aware that TTRK was the only person that answered in this forum. I had intended the question to be open to "anyone with knowledge" about the item. I am not asking a legal issue about the bootloader per se, just an idea as to it's potential uses. Im sorry if that seemed vague in my asking.

Thanks.

[jones07]

welcome to the Den. sorry about the coolness of some peeps here. Bootloader=hacking of dss H card. no other real use

[slugger]

That's correct. I bootloader has basically no other use than to by-pass a specific (damaged area) of a smart card.

[Salty Jizm]

slugger said:

That's correct. I bootloader has basically no other use than to by-pass a specific (damaged area) of a smart card.

That's correct. I bootloader has basically no other use than to by-pass a specific (damaged area) of a smart card.

Actually, I would go a little further. Today's Boot-Loaders has not been used for anything other than to defeat the security fuses in today's H card. That is not to say it couldn't be used to do something else. But, you would have to work to find another use.

[JD490]

I doubt dave likes boot loader much. I would think a bootloader is worse then buying an emulator.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi People,

My opinion on boot loaders are that there seem to be very little legal uses BUT , that said, I do know of people whose card was looped who purchased one in the hope of making it work again with the subscription they had or thought they had.

Many people have purchased things based on advice (bad advice) that they got on different web sites. So they buy one to avoid buying a new card and to continue receiving their subscription.

While its bad advise and totally misguided, it has happened to many newbies. Surely many of you have seen the incredibly dumb questions these newbies ask on the forums and many of them bought the smake oil they were advised to buy.

If a legit card gets looped (and many of them did, in error or however) people thought the best thing was to get a DPBB or Bootstrap to save the thing. When that did not work they simply bought a new card or got rid of the whole system feeling they were being harmed for no reason. Now they are getting a double whammy.

Some actually bought these in PROVISION for the day that happened to them (in anticipation of a loop) and when it never happened they were stuck with a $100.00 piece of equipment they never needed.

Each person knows why they bought it but many bought them for misguided reasons. Its no shame to have been mis-advised but the point is that if they did NOT steal TV then they are not guilty. That is the bottom line.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Being DUMB may not be too cool but fortunately ,its NOT a crime either.

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Thanks & Good Luck,
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To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
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[eeprom7777]

Educational. It allows you to study security based smart card system developement while tapping the huge resource of FREE looped and or marked and certainly DISCARDED smart cards previously used by DIRECTV®.

I have boot boards for all my discarded h cards, just in case I axadently mark em !

;)

[XIS]

Thanks for the bootloader info that's what I was hoping to see :)

[ceho]

legal use: to bypass the damaged bootsector of a smart card not belonging to DTV.
illegal use: To bypass the damaged bootsector of a smart card belonging to DTV.

So in reality, there arent many. there might be more, but i doubt it. in reality, you cant really "steal DTV" with a bootloader, so i think you might be legally safe. if you are planning to buy a bootloader, dont, H stream being shut down this month D:

[morgana]

Well I am ging to again step on a few toes when I say that a bootloader was purposefully designed with one thought in mind. Now do not get me wrong here, I am not saying just because you bought a bootloader you are toast. For one thing the bootloader in itself can not give you any ability to watch signals without paying for them. They do how ever allow a damaged DTV cards to be repaired. You need to program the card with a h card with an ISO programmer before it will do any of this. So the bootloader requires other hardware to be present and s/w to also be used. I do not think DTV can reasonably prove that you actually did the deed, especially if they can not prove you had all the rest of the material needed to make the card receive programming.

The lawyers will definitely have a tougher time when it comes to bootlaoders but that does not mean it is hopeless for you. What this really boils down to is what can they prove from all the eveidence they have. That is why if you get an attorney you will have a chance with the discovery motions that they will have to produce. I really do think this is mostly a scare tactic, but a quite successful tactic. It has done way more harm then anything else or ECM that they ever have done in the past. To be exact, ECMs may make it harder for them to prove the true loses they suffered as a result of their claim. So this may now also come into play, when damages are outlined. The civil remedy that DTV has chose to run with, has its limits and also does put the matter of proof on them. These letters are they way of getting more eveidence and possibly substantiating what they already have, through you contacting them.

Their claims to have experts willing to testitfy to things only being used to one purpose is their right to present it that way. Your lawyer has to then prove to the court that a bootloader while designed for the repair of a damaged card one 4 byte area, does not give any programming on its own. Since DTV damaged the card, and hence made it dead. They then should not have the say that the card can not be repaired by an out sider. It6 will really boil down to this taking time to prove the things they are claiming. Until we see actual court cases won or lost, we will not know really what works and what does not.

I would like to put my blind faith in the justice system, but that is not what a nervous person will do. I say design the best defence you can for anything you have ever purchased and then when the letter arrive, let you lawyer know all you have and what you have researched, then let him be the fighter in all of this. If you win, it is almost going to be a sure bet you will get costs awared to you, so if taken as a true fight and done without all the things available, I believe the costs will really be very little to you at all. On the other hand if yopu lose well the costs are going to be high, but what are the real chances of you losing, if you fight this to the end?

[gunsmoke2]

Well legal use or illegal use of a device doesn't matter UNLESS you are going to trial. So far nobody seems to be doing that.



GS2