We are hearing about alot of 'letters', but....

[GhostDog]

has Directv actually won any suit for this $10,000 that they seek? Have they even pursued any case against an end user, AFTER sending the infamous '2nd letter'. I havent heard of any cases against any end users that have bought from whiteviper and others, interested to know if any lawsuits have actually been filed.

[DougPirana]

Check out legal-rights.org.

Wow you have 1216 posts.

[gunsmoke2]

has Directv actually won any suit for this $10,000 that they seek?


No because no one has gone to trial. DTV either wins by default or a settlement.


If some one would take it to trial they could win and damage all the other lawsuits by DTV..


If only some end users could get together and work out a plan. We did here in Canada. Rifgt now DTV can't lose even though they can't prove that anyone used any device to receive their signals without payment


GS2

[Lager]

I won't be backing out or down when I get my letter. I ordered from 3 raided dealers and still haven't gotten my letter yet. I give my word that I am going to take it all the way but I doubt Dave will.


Lager

[jones07]

So what your saying is all these post I see all over the net about "I will fight DTV till the cows come home" Is all talk. when it comes time to put up or shut up. Most, if not all.Shut up, Hand their money over to dtv. and walk away with their tails between their legs. As I said before it easy to tell someone else to fight it out in court.But when YOU get that letter it's a hold new ball game. For us in the USA anyway.

[thegeek50]

Its often cheaper to settle than fight is the problem and they know it!

[To The Real King!!]

Hi People,

Please understand that this is just a big BLUFF, but a BLUFF that DirecTV® are winning against MOST of you. In most of these cases they do NOT have sufficient so-called "evidence" to win in any court at all, STARTING OUT. But unfortunately, they are PROS at this and most of the letter recipients are "babes in the woods." So from the MOMENT you call them (never do that) they begin to build a better case. And it can just get better for them from there if you do not play it well.

They are suing YOU (and yes they DO file against everyone who gets the letters) and so it is up to THEM to prove their case. So the correct way to fight this (if you want to win) is NOT to give them ANYTHING AT ALL, not even your name.

Its a battle of wits and your side needs to convince them that YOU will win but WITHOUT saying so. You lawyer should get DISCOVERY FROM THEM (what evidence, if any, that they have). The conversation should NEVER go to talking about YOU, what you did do or did NOT do. It should be restricted to obtaining information from THEM as to what "evidence" they have, if any.

Your lawyer is NOT obliged in any way to defend your position but rather to know what EVIDENCE THEY have. If they see a hard nosed attitude from your lawyer, ONLY getting to the real point IN WRITING, they will be plenty worried. But if your lawyer talks to them in a way so as to convince them that you are not guilty, that is already in THEIR FAVOR. Its about YOU knowing what evidence they have and that is all clearly written in the RULES of the Federal Court. Your lawyer should NEVER deviate from that until THEY ask if you would be willing to settle. But YOU never suggest that but rather wait until THEY do. And they will if he plays the game correctly.

I wont go through it all but you need a PROFESSIONAL LAWYER, one who KNOWS how to negotiate, how to get information in line with the RULES OF THE COURT and who is in no hurry or rush. They have to do all (100%) of the proving, not you.

Bye the way, that is exactly why those who are fighting have not got to court yet. It's a LONG SLOW game and positioning is the major part. WORRYING THEM!!!

So folks, if you are considering either WINNING IN COURT, or getting a GOOD settlement agreement then you NEVER let them know you will settle until you have made them jump through every hoop the law allows. If that is done correctly, they will begin to think that they have the wrong person in you to bamboozle because that is just what this is. A Bamboozle. And the LESS your lawyer tries to show them that you are innocent, the MORE worried they get. After all, they KNOW what the game is since its their game.

If they had adequate evidence they would get the court to PROCEED against you CRIMINALLY as they ALWAYS do in a RAID (where they get REAL evidence). Whenever they have EVIDENCE (such as in a raid of a dealer) they ALWAYS go criminal. But in these cases they do NOT have evidence that leads to conviction. So they bamboozle and unfortunately most people play that game very poorly and in their rush to show how innocent they are, they give up the ball game. And believe me, no crown attorney would EVER go to court criminally on the evidence they have (or rather do NOT have).

So IF you really want to either WIN or get a low settlement (also a win) then you must take the time and have the PRO to play the game properly and slowly. It takes the time it takes and when they see what YOU are up to they will delay it further. They cannot afford to lose a single case against them with the case law that creates. Because right now they are milking the golden goose and they don't want that upset.

Remember they DO use the "economic factors" to their advantage just as the greek says. They KNOW its costly to litigate but frankly, even if it takes a long time, its no more costly to do it PROPERLY. There is no charge for waiting time and your lawyer should always be in the position of waiting on answers from THEM.

I have seen hundreds of post here on the den and I have answered hundreds too but it is becoming more apparent that the majority of the questions are really irrelevant to a good, well fought case. Those that I KNOW are fighting are not posting (look at the Florida Thread) but rather are biding their time and asking for more and more disclosure. They are the ones who will win.

You CANNOT WIN or even get a good settlement if you make it apparent that you are in a hurry or that you will settle (before you have 100% of all the disclosure necessary). Do NOT take them for dummies and they know if you are not at the settlement point by receiving all the disclosure, that any talk of settlement at this point, is a sign of WEAKNESS. And only the STRONG will win at this by playing the game out to completion.

If I sound HARSH, so be it but this is in fact the way it goes.

I wish everyone the Best Of Luck but LUCK is related to HOW you do this. And from how you do it, its totally apparent as to what you will do. So get the best lawyer you can afford and let him pay it out FULLY as that is ultimately the ONLY way to win or get a good settlement. And that can be much less costly to you that a quick $3500.00 per device settlement, especially when you give away enough to put THEM in a winning position, which many unfortunately do.

Each person needs to do what is best for him but you have to put up a good battle if you expect anything less than their numbers, good luckhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[gdmanry]

Guess I should have read this post before replying to the "dealer" thread, so ignore my questions in that thread.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Although I have never gotten a letter, and frankly don't expect to, I like to keep up with what's going on in case one hits my door.

There's no better defense than being prepared to mount your offensive without delay through your attorney if the letter ever comes. Let them know right off the bat what they're in for without all the avoiding and waffling up front.

Great Post!!!

[GhostDog]

Thanks for all the thoughtful answers...especially TTRK, clears up my questions.:)

[BubbaHill]

This was posted by a lawyer on another site. I did not edit, and
I hope this is OK with the Mods.


I have said many times over and over.......there is not one case that I will ever lose based upon the facts that some individual who placed a purchase order from whatever dealer for any product, (i.e. loader, programmer, unlooper, ) and then after a year or more, receives a letter from the idiot representatives of DirecTv informing them that if they fail to respond they will be exposed to a lawsuit......Please!!!!Don't insult my intelligence nor don't embarass yourself!

Lets break this down one more time for the last time.

1. The purchase of these products "alone" by itself....is not evidence. Due to the established fact that there are legitimate uses for these devices, (i.e. Microsoft sells the same type of devices) and this is not enough for ANY ----ING COURT or JUDGE to issue or allow a lawsuit to even be establsihed!! Don't even say it is, or you got to be the dumbest ----ing moron on the place of the whole universe.

2. The whole purpose of the sending of these letters, which by the way, are being addressed off of sales records that have been handled by a 3rd party. ( Issue of accuracy) The letters are being sent in hopes of getting a response, so that NOW, they have some credible evidence, that if you responded to the letter, then you must have been the correct one to have purchased the product.

Now, and listen up all you stupid people out there!!! The whole point that the letter request the individual to call the number....is to now get additional "Taped" evidence of your responses to their questions.

Because, even at this point, they know as well as all the real smart attorneys know, that even if you admit to being the individual that was the one who purchased the product from whatever dealer, that was too lazy to set their operation up properly to avoid the raid in the first place, that they still need more supporting evidence to go forward for any legal action against the individual, ................they will ask you a set of questions that have already been designed and are worded in the correct way to illicit the answers they need to meet the burden that is required by "Law" to satisfy before being allow to file the lawsuit and/or file criminal charges.

Now, based upon these answers, which no matter which way you answer them, are going to get you in trouble. *Remember, they already believe your a piece of ----, just for buying any device from these dealers.....they think there should be no reason for you to be buying any device of this type unless your using it for the purpose intended for.

The very first thing that is taught in law school is:......Never ask a question, you don't already know the answer to. Thats why these questions are designed to illicit the type of answers they know and want to get from you and its all on tape!!!!

So, I have read the so-called posts from PD, and a whole list of other sites.......these individuals who say they didn't answer and ended up getting a default judgement against them is total BULL----! and I will challenge any individual to prove me wrong! I will pay 1 million dollars to the person who can prove to me that they had a default judgement issued against them for failure to answer any letter from these representative of DirecTV.

If a default judgement was ever issued against anyone, then its was for facts not disclosed by the person, that they had to in fact sign a service of a complaint when served and then failed to answer.......or some other set of circumstances not disclosed.

Before ANY ----ING LAWSUIT CAN EVEN GO FORWARD IN THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE! the defendant MUST be notified and proof of notification Must be filed with the court! Proof being a signiture of the defendant that shows the defendant was served with notice of the pending suit.

Thus, if the defendant has been served and then chooses to ignore, then a default judgement can be issued. But, prior to this, and even before a lawsuit and/or a criminal charge can move forward, the plaintiff or prosecutor Must satisfy the requirements for filing such a suit or warrant for arrest.

Must prove and have proof, that the defendant has violated and/or committed a crime. Not just the hearsay statements and/or hearsay records from a 3rd party.

Now, if all these dumb ----ing bastards have is sales records and they send you a letter...like I said before and I'll say it again, wipe your ass with it....because, if they really had anything concrete at all......they wouldn't be sending you out a letter in the first place. They would have already filed a criminal charge and arrested you or had you served with notice of a civil lawsuit.

OK!.......Why waste time, money, and legal fees........if they had anything at all on you already! Since when do the ----ing authorities wait to arrest because they want to know if you'll respond to a ----ing letter! Please!

Don't answer, and you won't have to worry.....the burden is always on the plaintiff to prove your guilt or actions were in violation of some law/rule....otherwise.....go back to the drawing board.

Everyone Understand ?

Wait until either you get served with a notice of lawsuit or a criminal warrant has been issued for your arrest.

Also, listen and pay attention to this one.........NEVER NEVER NEVER! Sign for Certified Mail!!! Never!

If a lawsuit has been filed against you. IT MUST BE SERVED ON YOU BY A CONSTABLE!, SHERRIF, OR LEGAL/PARALEGAL.

YOU CANNOT RECEIVE NOTICE OF A LAWSUIT BY CERTIFIED MAIL IN ANY ----ING COURT WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. IT IS REQUIRED BY THE RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE! THEY ARE NOT AMENDABLE! THEREFORE, UNLESS OR UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN SERVED NOTICE, THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!

A criminal warrant of course can and probably will be served by the local police department. In most cases, however, involving this type of matter, due to the non-violent nature, the local police department will contact you to inform you that there is an arrest warrant out for your arrest and you should contact an attorney and turn yourself in. Sometimes they will come to your home, arrest you, then arraign you, and release you on PR (Personal Recognenze)

So, based upon all the information I have read and all the post about wheather or not to respond to any letters......my advice is don't......the only thing to do if you do, is contact an attorney who has the ability to understand the issues involved and the nature of the charges. Contact the legal-rights.org. they will help you. everyone on staff has experience in this field. it is a specialized area of law in terms of civil.

Criminal law is criminal law no matter where you are. The Federal rules of criminal law are uniform in all 50 states.....only state laws vary, thats it.

Thats why Dave is too afraid to file criminal charges against the so-called end user because they can never meet the burden to file criminal charges.......and then win a case beyond a reasonable doubt......heck, the reasonable doubt begins at the very beginning, how can they prove the sales records are accurate and how do you know beyond a reasonable doubt my client did in fact receive the product and didn't use it for its legal purposes and/or he/she did use it for illegal purposes, can you prove this beyond a reasonable doubt?.........NO, would you like to try for double jeporady? case dismissed! bye bye.

[ex-subscriber]

I remember a while back that TTRK posted that a lawyer in the Northeast has successfully defended three cases. The guy that Bubba just quoted claims to be a lawyer in Mass. who has successfully defended three cases. For anyone who is reading all they can on legal issues, then i would urge you to read this guy's posts as well as all the reading you do here. Whether or not he is the guy TTRK referred to, or whether or not he is actually a lawyer, i have no idea. But i'll tell you this, the guy does make you stop and think. He seems to be very passionate about all of this. Anyway, if you know where to look you can find him. He's got like 25 posts, and as far as i can tell, they're all in that one thread in the legal forum. If you ever wanted to "decode" something, then you know where to look. This is no slam against the den and the wealth of information here, it's just another source of information for people who are interested and who are trying to read all they can on this matter.

[Lager]

Bubba


Wow, I been preaching the same thing that was in that post :)


Lager

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

I do not know who this is BUT If it is a person who goes by the name or nick of Runninrebel777 then there is a slight problem. Both myself and several other people have contacted him personally and asked him for the names of the cases that he has had and claims he won. He claims in a letter to me that it is in the Rhode Island/Massachusetts area. However I cannot find a single case on the PACER system there. Now I asked him to forward the names of the three cases and his response was that it was really 2 cases and that he would get back to me.

Well unfortunately he has not and his letter to me was on the 13 of July. I have also had other SERIOUS PEOPLE who are litigating cases and he has not answered them either.

I have seen several of his posts and he does not completely seem like a lawyer to me but I hesitate to go harsh on him IN CASE I am wrong. Most of you know that 2 cases won in court would provide VERY VALUABLE case law.

But look at his spellings. He wants to "illicit" information? I don't think so. I would try to ELICIT information but illicit is something that is illegal. Would a lawyer not know that? And twice above does not a typo make.

Think about it and look at his posts. He often makes this type of error. Lawyers usually don't. But I stand ready to be corrected. Its not impossible but my initial hope has waned a lot since its almost a month now, no response to a very IMPORTANT question. A lawyer knows how important it is. .
But some continue to be impressed and some of what he says IS CORRECT or logical, but also some is not. I would expect a lawyer to have more correct and less wrong. I saw him encourage "Theft" in one post and I do not EVER expect to meet a lawyer who would do that, especially not in public. He could be disbarred for that. It was very suggestive for the least and I believe it was suggestive enough to be a possible 'crime' by him. I don't ever expect to see a lawyer post anything even remotely like that.

Oh and do not believe Dave is too "AFRAID" to not TRY to get criminal charges filed against you, its just that he cannot file them. He has to convince a crown attorney to do that and while I agree that there is NOT sufficient evidence (and I have said that before) its NOT for the reason he states near the end of the post.

So my opinion is that this person has avoided sending info to back up his claims and when I see him write" illicit the answers" twice in one letter well, I wonder.

Here is what the term "illicit" means
illicit adj.

Contrary to accepted morality (especially ---ual morality) or convention; "an illicit association with his secretary."

And here is the term "ELICIT" which is a verb, not an adjective.


elicit v.

To derive by reason; "elicit a solution.

Anyone wish to tell me which you think he meant to write, twice. I ain't an english prof but I do know fairly simple terms :)

So I leave you to decide by yourselves and I wish he was a lawyer with 2 won cases. I do not wish to improperly criticize him but one who boasts of 2 wins that are invisible so far and does not answer direct questions about them, may be exaggerating just a tad. He certainly DOES know a fair bit about the law and SOME (quite a bit) of what he says is correct but what should I think about the not answering?

Sorry folks but I am a believer only when I see the cases. Then I DO get excited but I do lose faith over time when for whatever reason this fellow Runninrebel777 does not respond. Of course only BUBBA knows if this is HIM or not.

I would also say folks that I will not talk off the top of my head and I got excited when I got his letter. But no so excited as to relate it here without confirmation. But that's just me, I don't want to provide anyone with false hopes because I know this is bad enough in the first place that defendants in these cases do NOT need false hopes.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[Lager]

I haven't seen any of this guy's post until this one but I wouldn't base much on spelling. The large majority of attorney's never actually write anything. They dictate it and have a para legal or secratary actually type it up and proof it. At least that is the experience I have seen.

Lager

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Lager,

I agree and I said that a couple of times.

I have seen several of his posts and he does not completely seem like a lawyer to me but I hesitate to go harsh on him IN CASE I am wrong.

But WHERE are the two cases he won and how come they are NOT posted on pacer and he hasn't answered. Those DO count. This is why, added to the term he couldn't spell (its a legal term), I have some doubt. But I would LOVE to see those cases. I also saw a post where he came borderline to telling people to hack away. That one I found a little dicy.

I do NOT want to rag the guy at all but without the cases I remain VERY dubious. He gave me his name followed by "esq." too but I cannot find it at either bar association. There is a bit more than what I have said but I would NOT disrespect him by posting his E-mail. I still have a 10% HOPE he is real.

Not because it affects me, I am not even in the USA but I do feel for the defendants of these outrageous lawsuits that I look at as "economic terrorism." We have enough of the "T" word last September, so I sympathize totally.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

I hate to see people bamboozled in this way.

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[ex-subscriber]

Originally posted by To The Real King!!
Hi Guys,

I do not know who this is BUT If it is a person who goes by the name or nick of Runninrebel777 then there is a slight problem.

Yes. This is the same guy. He goes by the name runninrebel now. There is no 777 after it. If he's not a lawyer, then i would think he is a narcissistic law student with a vivid imagination. He claims to have "high end" (non dtv) clients who pay retainers between 10K-30K. He claims to handle dtv cases for 3K to 10K. When he posted that, someone scoffed at the 10K, and said they don't want to buy his house for him, so he replied that he has suits that cost more than $10,000.:D

TTRK, i would say the guy has definitely had the time to reply to your email. He's all over that thread over there, and he posts at length. He has referred people to legalrights on several occasions, so it would seem to me that he wouldn't hesitate to provide you with anything you requested. Also, in his very first post in that thread, he states that he is a lawyer who also tests dtv.

[Lager]

TTRK,

I concur with your assesment. If the guy has come out and said he defended a case and won, there should be a record of it. I also agree that once he offered corespondance with you that he owes it to you to at least reply. The only thing (I really am not trying to make an excuse for the guy) would be that he has apparently (post just above mine) posted that he tests. So he admitted guilt if he makes his name public then Dave has cause to file an action on him. That said....I doubt Dave would have trouble finding out what attorney in the New England area had won 2 cases against them and find him that way :) About 90% of what I saw in his one post 'squares' with all of my experiences with the legal system in the states. The rest isn't way out there, but goes where I wouldn't reccomend (at least not publicly).


Lager

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

I don't totally disagree with the guy and he is right about 90% of what he states. He does that a little unprofessionally but everyone has the right to be that in a different forum to his normal lifestyle I suppose. He is not presenting there as soliciting customers for his law practise. Its not even impossible that he won the cases (but out of court) and boasted a little too strongly. He seems to have a bit of an ego, not unusual for lawyers that I have met :)

But I wish he would just say so and them we could move on and evaluate him. I have a lot of people in his area but I cannot recommend him without full honest details. If he won 3 cases in that they dismissed them, there is nothing WRONG with that. Its in fact very good performance, if not quite what he stated.

His letters (about 8 or 9 of them) were also quite nice and revealing so I have nothing bad to say except that he has not been properly up front with me. Its hard to recommend someone unless they are able to say OK, I screwed up in overstating my case. They were not court wins, just out of court wins. But I wanted to convince people so I stated my case too strongly.

To me that would then be acceptable for people to consult him to determine if they wanted to hire him.

One of the bad things is we may be NOT getting benefit of a good resource just because of an exaggeration. Its not worth it so I wish he would come clean.

I will make one more attempt on him (already had 3 others try) and hope he comes through but unfortunately at this point, people cannot take what he says to the bank YET. But he could easily make that right if he I a big enough man. And in many ways he does seem to be. But I hope people realize that this is quite bad from an "ethical" point of view, no matter how good it is. Other traits may just be fatal.

Only things that need cleaning up is the exaggeration if that is what it is and the posts that come too close to him having a problem himself stating he is testing. If that ever came out in a court case it would be DEVASTATING for his client. So why would he even begin to state any such thing, true or untrue. And if its true then it could be serious. I personally find it a problem no matter WHAT. But others may not feel that way but I have a real problem with that. Maybe its not true and he thinks that will endear him to some. I really have no idea becaue he sure did not say that to me.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[GreenFrog]

I just received a letter today, and I was planning to ignore it. (I kind of wish I hadn't signed for it, now.) I remember the advice always used to be to ignore them, and nothing would ever come of it. I am wondering now if I really face being sued by DirecTV, and if they have actually sued anyone who didn't reply to the letter. After reading this thread, it sounds like I may have a problem...

[Dbol]

So if you got a letter should you get a lawyer and have them write a letter back saying leave the person alone, or should you just ignore the letter? So many conflicting answers I am confused. Right now I would lean towards a lawyer but I could be wrong.

D

[owenscott]

^^^ he does sound confident so my guess is that he is prolly a law student. ^^^

[gunsmoke2]

Someone posted the same thing in this thread


http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=132998



He is NO lawyer and sounds like a Jerk



GS2

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

This guy actually is a lawyer an someone contacted him about what I said above and I have answered what he replied in the thread at:

http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133021

I know he does not seem like a lawyer but it is the same lawyer who I had many emails with. He is kind of unorthodox to say the least and even in his reply to me listed in the post above, he made a few unusual suggestions in the last paragraph that I find very strange for a lawyer.

But he really is a lawyer and I have his full name and phone number.

Apparently he will open a DSS hot line that will answer peoples questions on these issues. I do not know if it will be a pay site or what it will be.

I will NOT be telling people what they should or should not do based on him but he is in the Mass and Rhode Island areas. I am not sure what states he is licensed to practise law in. He apparently is a DSS dealer as well but I do not know the name of his Internet site although apparently he does have one.

I will stop short of making any recommendation about him either way because people need to be free to make their own choices as to the attributes of the lawyer they select, but I can say he really is a lawyer.

I had requested that he supply me the names of the cases that he stated he won but now he apparently says they were all dismissed based on motions that he had stated he would send me but he did not. If he does send them I will post them on legal-rights. He claims one was rescinded voluntarily and that 2 were ordered dismissed based on motions he made. I would think that when that happens the case would officially become public knowledge but I have no evidence of this and these cases are not posted on the PACER system. He admits they would not be found because they were both dismissed in Pre-trial motions. Not being a lawyer, I don't understand that. I know what it means but normally if a judge dismissed an issue that must be recorded in the court record.

Anyhow people can read the post and make their own decisions on this whole thing. I stated above that I could be wrong and apparently I am because he is a lawyer. Those who wish to follow him and his advice certainly can.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

So that's IT folks, mystery resolved, he IS a lawyer.

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[Pirate_PuLsAR]

Well if he has had the cases dismissed , I would like to hire him.
I would like to see if the cases are the same, how they were dismissed & use this to clear me. I reside in MA

I want this to go away as much as the next guy. If we are onto something, we need to put the fire out before it spreads & the innocent get burned. A record of a purchase of an unlooper & emulator is the evidence thay have on me. The say they have an expert witness to prove that its main purpose is to pirate tv. If it can be dismissed I would like to contact him for a consultation & have him do for me what he did for the alleged others & put this to bed. I can give him a lot of business as well.

The letter that I got was from McLughlin & Sacks, LLC attorneys at law. They are in Northampton, MA. Make sure that nobody ever hires them for anything.

I think I am going to call Dave & cancel no matter what. I will never buy a GM product, or anything from the parent companies.

PP