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To The Real King!!
July 3rd, 2000, 03:15 AM
Hi Everyone,

This is a very serious article about what our liberal government is planning. This is REALLY BAD NEWS!

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Copyright © Montreal Gazette July 2, 2000
by George Jonas
Law vs. justice

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Having one law for citizens and another

for the police is a recipe for a police state

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Justice Minister Anne McLellan and Solicitor-General Lawrence MacAulay have proposed a law that would permit "reasonable and proportional acts" of lawbreaking by the police. Such acts would include just about every crime, short of murder, manslaughter and ---ual offences. The ostensible reason is that criminal gangs, somewhat like political terrorists, sometimes want new applicants to perform acts of initiation to prove they're bona fides - that is, to prove they aren't undercover police officers. This makes organizations harder to penetrate.
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If the proposed legislation becomes law, officers will presumably deal drugs and commit robbery to better penetrate gangs. Sounds grand. It also sounds really useful, considering that it will take about a minute for gangs to figure out what undercover officers can't do, then demand, say, ---ual assault as an initiation.
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It was only a matter of time, I suppose. This proposal has, in one form or another, surfaced many times before Officials have great fondness for being put above the law. Cops often complain they could be charged with making an illegal U-turn while chasing a kidnapper. In practice, the chances are remote. First, the authorities have a discretion whether to lay charges. Second, the police, like all citizens, have the common-law defense of necessity No court is likely to convict an officer who broke a speed limit to save a life.
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Still, existing law puts officials in the uncomfortable position of having to use their heads once in a while. That's why many would prefer to have statutory permission to run red lights as it were, and drive on the wrong side of the road.
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Politicians feel safe Introducing such legislation. The left won't be critical because it always approves of special powers going to the state. As for the right, it has a knee-jerk reaction to crime. It's unlikely to object to any measure aimed at criminal gangs.
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The ultimate arrogance of statism is the belief that right and wrong are determined by government edict. This affliction is not new, nor is it peculiar to Jean Chretien's cabinet (though it seems to have a big dose of it). Twenty-odd years ago it was expressed by Pierre Elliott Trudeau's famous shrug when Justice David MacDonald's report on the RCMP revealed that the Mounties had been burning down barns belonging to suspected Quebec separatists. Many Canadians were upset, but our P.E.T. remained undaunted. Between shrugs, he voiced opinion that if people were so concerned with the Mounties burning barns illegally, perhaps he'd make burning barns by the Mounties legal.
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Trudeau wasn't alone in believing that this would settle the matter. Editorialists at the Toronto Star wrote that "if the police need to run a red light, speed, use false documents or plant bugs, then the right to do those things should be given to them by statute law.
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To say that this missed the point is putting it mildly.

It's not wrong to burn barns because it's illegal; it's illegal to burn barns because it's wrong.
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The fact that governments are competent to introduce legislation creates the illusion that governments determine matters of right and wrong. But arson or assault committed by a police officer is still arson or assault. Making a wrongful act right by legislation is beyond the state's competence. Only in James Bond movies can governments issue 007 licenses to kill.
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Former East German police officers could point to statutes permitting or requiring them to shoot at people trying to cross the Berlin Wall. They were still jailed after unification, not because their acts were unlawful - they were not at all unlawful in East Germany's communist state but because their acts were wrong.
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Unless a state is prepared to abandon the rule of law altogether, it can't have one law for citizens and another for the police. That road leads to a police state in this world, and (if you ask me) to perdition in the next.
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It's not just arrogance or hubris that induces Ottawa's mandarins to think that they can have one law for their centurions and another for ordinary citizens. There's an even deeper error Many people fall into it, not only statist politicians.
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The error is to think of the law as some magic tree that bears the fruit of justice. In fact, the opposite is true. It's the tree of justice that may, in good years, bear the fruit of the law.
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George Jonas is a Toronto-based author and free lance journalist.
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The idea of “allowing” the Police to break our laws is just one MORE example of this Liberal Government’s criminal path towards a “POLICE STATE” and its“rule by BRUTE FORCE“. The Canadian Public should think about this and decide if THIS is the type of government they want to live under and HOW to get rid of them in the Election.
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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"

Thanks,

To The REAL King!!
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darthvader
July 3rd, 2000, 12:15 PM
This may seem like a very naive question, but to me it has great significance and relevancy...

In yours and mine, are the government trends towards a police state the result of the base instincts of individuals manifesting anti-social personalities, often called 'control freaks', or are we witnessing the results of a goal-directed effort on the part of a (non-national) few, not just to harass 'testers' here or gun enthusiasts there, but to eliminate personal freedom at any and all levels throughout the world?

In many parts of the world we see activities that hint at the latter. Usually the powers-to-be publicly identify a small group by their common activities, then proclaim them to be enemy no 1 and go after them with a vengeance. Public opinion is intententionally turned against the group, making them totally marked and hated by the rest of society. Little by little, the governments create a lot of little groups of criminals who can then be easily controlled, if not by law, then certainly by (misguided) public opinion. I think this is called 'divide and conquor'.

Wasn't it the comunist manifesto that enumerated all the things necessary for the domination of a people by their governments? Weren't absolute police power and the elimination of personal weapons two of the major goals?

The real question is, if I'm right, and we are seeing a definate goal-directed campaign against freedom all across the globe, who is going to recognise it for what it is, and how are we going to stand up to it?

dv
ps someone once said 'live free or die'

MIKED
July 3rd, 2000, 02:50 PM
You gotta be ----ting me TTRK. Is that piece of legislation for real or a belated April Fools joke?

RiseStar
July 3rd, 2000, 06:52 PM
No its real MIKED,

I first heard of its thought several months ago

To The Real King!!
July 3rd, 2000, 09:45 PM
Hi MikeD,

No it started up here 3 years ago when the crown (government or “Queen”) got permission for police to be able to operate “sting operations” with drugs, legally becuase they had LOST a big one because “they too were breaking the law”. The do-gooders got them permission to break just this “one” law by permission if you can imagine. A little like “money laundering” started in the USA, with one “good” cause where people could be fooled into believing it was RIGHTEOUS. Now that they got that one under their belt (that was unbelievable enough) now they are “going for gold”. Its just incredible how LAME these supposed “do -gooders” can be and how STUPID the rest of us can be at letting them when it seems “innocent” enough (but really is not).

For what ever reason, we are in a period of time where everyone is too busy to watch carefully and they “let things slide”.

I cant imagine their is ANYONE who does not understand that the law can ONLY work well when it is the SAME FOR EVERYONE. After all we come from a long lineage of people who had KINGS with privileges and who as “subjects” were enslaved. That DID NOT WORK so our law evolved under the rule of EQUALITY for all.

Now these F’in MORONIC A‘holes in government are returning to the old system of privilege when people seem just too busy to care. And in the name of RIGHT and GOOD they will convolute and CORRUPT our system because people are TOO BUSY to care.

I hope to try and help CHANGE THAT.

Here is another article and this cause IS garnering some attention this time. If we let this “slide through” again and do NOT stop it then in my opinion we are doomed and my SIGNATURE will become the order of the day.

Here is the article. The Jurnalist asks for us to write in and express ourselves. Please lets be OVERWHELMING in condemning this situation!!!

Two-tiered law? No, thanks

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KAREN SELICK
Copyright National Post © July 3, 2000
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Does Anne McLellan, the Justice Minister, really think that by tossing the phrase "the rule of law into some draft legislation she can make civil libertarians smile benignly at a flagrant assault on justice?
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Last month, in a paper tabled in the Senate, she proposed to grant police officers immunity from prosecution for crimes they commit during a criminal investigation. The draft bill says it will assist public officers to "effectively carry outt their law enforcement duties in accordance with the rule of law"
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Anyone familiar with the phrase "the rule of law" knows that one of its hallmarks is the principle that no one should be above the law - that the same rules should govern all citizens, from the highest to the lowest, without privilege or exception. This principle was a hard won victory for our ancestors and has rightfully become one of our most revered legal doctrines.
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Just as a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, a privilege trying to pass itself off as being in accordance with the rule of law still stinks. Criminal immunity for cops would undermine the rule of law, not promote it The Minister's attempt to obfuscate this issue is an insult to our intelligence.
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The impetus behind this proposal arises from a "reverse sting" operation undertaken by the RCMP in 1991. Hoping to catch high-level drug dealers, undercover officers posed as suppliers themselves. They offered to sell hashish with a street value of almost $1-million to Ontario drug kingpins, and even brought samples of the drug to negotiating sessions. After the deal was made, the buyers were charged with trafficking. At their trial, they pointed out that the police themselves had been trafficking in illegal drugs. They argued that evidence obtained in this discreditable manner should not be used to convict them.
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The Supreme Court of Canada agreed. (The case was called R. v. Campbell.) In response, Parliament in 1997 passed the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, which legalized what would otherwise be the criminal activities of police officers in drug entrapment cases such as Campbell
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Now, however the Justice Minister wants to go further, legalizing additional forms of police misconduct in order to combat not just drug trafficking but other perceived evils - prostitution, illegal gambling, alcohol smuggling and money laundering.
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In an age when allegations of police corruption and excessive use of force have become increasingly frequent, it is hard to imagine why anyone would want to change the rules in a way that could only make the problem worse. Power corrupts, and police officers are no exception. Why place temptation in their way when there is ample cause for concern over abuse of the power they currently wield?
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Even if concerns over the behavior of individual officers could be dismissed as rare or trivial, Canadians must question the cumulative affect of this legalized misconduct on our institutions. When agents of the state, start emulating the behavior of the criminals they are supposedly trying to combat, the state risks being transformed from an instrument of justice into merely another rival gang in the world of organized crime.
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And let's not kid ourselves - there's plenty of motivation for police departments and their political masters to lie, cheat and steal. In fact, it's exactly the same motivation that drives underworld crime organizations: money.
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When cash, cars and real estate are forfeited by suspects under proceeds-of-crime legislation, the money gets divvied up between the federal government and the provincial government where the seizure was made. The governments acquire a vested interest in the continued existence of crime. It's a source of revenue. Why be too fastedious about how the busts are made, or even whether the suspects are guilty? After all, they're probably just sleazeballs anyway.
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The white paper tries to lull us into complacency by pointing out that there are already precedents in Canadian law for police immunity - specifically, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act passed following the R. v. Campbell case. The Minister doesn't seem to realize that this technique of building on precedent is precisely what worries critics of her proposal.
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Perhaps the most frightening aspect of this proposal is that the evils it targets are creations of the state in the first place. It is not the drug trade, but rather the state's prohibition on drug trading, that has created the vast smuggling networks, the wealthy drug lords, the money laundering, the gang turf wars and the drive-by shootings. The murder rate soared during the Prohibition era, but dropped off sharply as soon as the sale of alcohol was legalized. It did not return to its former high levels until the state ratcheted up the war on drugs. likewise, prostitution and gambling are crimes only because the state says so. As far as the participants are concerned, these activities are voluntary exchanges of money and services.
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Before we make equality under the lawjust another casualty of the unwinnable war on vice, perhaps we should consider the alternative of declaring peace.
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The paper invites comments from the public by Sept. 15. If you share my concerns, write to Law Enforcement Criminal Liability Consultation, Department of Justice, 284 Wellington Street, 5th Floor, Ottawa KIA OH8.
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Copyright National Post © July 3, 2000
Karen Selick is a lawyer in Belleville, Ont.

Just do NOT let this happen folks. Its to essential to your freedom, to democracy and to RIGHT!!

Hi DarthVader,

It is my belief that this legislation is not brought by “criminal minds” who want to pervert our system or by any worldwide conspiracy. I just think all our governments are over-populated with do-gooder fools with little practical understanding of “the nature of things”. Its brought by the same IDIOT do-gooders who think “gun control” will stop all killings. The NAIVE people who constitute Government today and who simply lack experience in life to make these decisions.

Probably, these elected officials would not rise above the level of “the LOWEST of positions in 40 years of private industry work” (not STARS, shall we say) but who in Government gets voted in as Justice minister, the highest job in the country in the legal-system. Yet this is NO SHINING Star, not even close.

So this “-----for-brains” person gets to do what he or she thinks is GOOD and RIGHTEOUS. Cheat the system, help the government, give those nice policemen the right to “break the law” just a little for our own good. After all, they have honorable intentions and work for the good of the citizens. RIGHT!!! NAIVE, DUMB and IDIOTIC for the least but that IS their mindset.

This is the MOST dangerous element in our society by FAR. He who naively thinks that this is good. The danger is simple. A LAW, once on the books, will be USED and MISUSED in every corrupt way possible by every corrupt politico and will be twisted and convoluted until its used for PERSONAL gain by those in society who KNOW how to use and misuse the law. And the “lame-brain” who put the law in is LONG GONE, somewhere else to screw things up in society with their misguided, do-gooder mentality.

Its a pretty “SCREWED UP WORLD we live in, Captain Jack!!

I sure hope somebody other than just YOU and I care readers! We KNOW better but I really FEAR for our KIDS.


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Thanks,

To The REAL King!!
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Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
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[Edited by To The Real King!! on July 3rd, 2000 at 10:33 PM]

sparker
July 4th, 2000, 12:49 PM
LLTK

SammyBoy
July 5th, 2000, 02:27 PM
Isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?

MIKED
July 5th, 2000, 05:21 PM
TTRK:

I had written a very intellectual (long winded) reply to your post that was rudely deleted when my isp disconnected me before I was able to post. As a result you are spared the agony of reading the unabridged version.

What we have here is a page from Machiavelli's book (the ends justify the means). Any political science student should identify it as such and understand the negative implications of such a law.

I fear what you say is very true (regarding this is a time when many don't seem to care). I have a thesis (dumbass opinion if you will) that this is also a time in which crime is down (a result of better economies) In turn the Law enforcement machine (empire if you will) needs to find new ways to keep itself busy and to justify bloated budgets and record numbers of personnel. In this environment they have no choice but to expand their powers so they can dig deeper into the layers of crime and uncover the sorts of criminal activity that lay hidden under the more visible forms of mindless crimes perpetrated by the economically challenged (poor) among us. They know that to outsmart this more sophisticated criminal structure it is often easier to bend the rules than to play by the book (after all the reasoning here is that the crooks are not bound by any rules so they must level the playing field).

As a people it is imperative (to borrow a term from James Tyberious Kirk) that we resolve to not allow the bending or breaking of any rules, and instead demand due process from our law enforcement agencies even if doing so will tax heavily their collective intelligence and ability to be creative and resourceful in carrying out their jobs.

MIKED





[Edited by MIKED on July 5th, 2000 at 05:24 PM]

To The Real King!!
July 6th, 2000, 04:30 AM
Hi Mike,

Extremely well written reply Sir.

The part that really bothers me is that you and I can easily (trivially) see the problem here and that this MUST not be allowed to happen. And your 100% right, it IS straight out of Machiavelli. The AMAZING thing is WHERE ARE the PROTECTORS of right (the REAL ones) who can see that this is Government run amok! Where are they hiding?

These people that are trying to pass this (and may well succeed) are ADULT human beings yet they haven’t an IOTA of common sense or intelligence.

Frankly, its not that we are particularly bright to see this as I believe any reasonable person should, living in North America. There is a spotlight guiding the way.

Is our Government saturated with dunderheads and idiots that they DON’T see it, none of them?

Think of the quality of person who would even propose this outrage. And if they are LAME, what about their assistants and advisors?

Its hard to believe that the extreme dangers haven’t been pointed out to them. Do they want to go down in Canadian history as the ruiners of Democracy. If it goes through (and I see interest but no concerted and organized political opposition) it will have to be withdrawn in a few years when it is shown to be completely unworkable. This one move will usurp all the advances that have been made in the justice system in the last 200 years. Canada will become the laughing stock of the free world (except for Africa and Indonesia where we would fit right in). Our justice system and Justices will be scorned wherever justice prevails.

This is so serious that I am sure that our prestige as “peacemakers” and a small but very democratic country will go right down the tubes. And I am looking into what international law it conflicts with. I am SURE there are some.

The ramifications are mind boggling and in a short time you would see lashback as our population is educated and wont stand for what would come.

I fear that very serious ramifications would come out with people revolting against the type of actions by the police that this would bring. I mean revolts with fatal consequences where people have grown beyond this type of treatment that you could expect in the “Congo” or “Angola” where military dictators have their way.

It just wont be accepted here by at least part of our population and the result would be catastrophic and set us back 40 years.

I really hope people wake up before these dire consequences happen, preferably NOW!!

Thanks,

To The REAL King!!
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