Directv Letter from Secure Signals International

[Bubba Mike]

Ok, I know ya all have heard this before, but here is the deal. I recieved a letter from Secure Signals International in Tenn accusing me of purchasing a programmer (which I did) to use to illegally recieve programming. I did buy the programmer, to use to try to program cards for a CNC machine that I was building, I never used it and threw the unit away. I have never had Directv or any satelite service for that fact. When I recieved the first latter I called these people and tried to explain this, but was told that I would need to pay 6500.00 and turn the device over, which I no longer have and had not for a couple for years, so I told them where to put it. I just recieved another letter giving me 10 days or a lawsuit will be prepare against me and also receieved a message on my phone asking me to call them. Any suggetions short of the lawyer route. Should I just ignore it and get a lawyer if I get a summons, don't see how they could ever get anything to stick, never used the unit for anything, never got any software or cards, don't even know anybody who has Directv, any advice would be appreicated.

Bubba

[gunsmoke2]

Should I just ignore it and get a lawyer if I get a summons, don't see how they could ever get anything to stick, never used the unit for anything, never got any software or cards, don't even know anybody who has Directv, any advice would be appreicated.

Bubba



They can get it to stick if you ignore them. My advice would be to contact a lawyer now versus waiting for a summons. Calling and trying to explain your situation is not advised as it sounds as if you acknowledge having possession of the programmer. Until someone goes to court and gets a ruling we don't really know if mere possession would be a violation or not.



GS2

[Justin]

....I called these people and tried to explain this...

I'm no lawyer but if it was me,
If I had a legitimate use that I could show in court I would put it in writing along with a note that if they persue the matter you will countersue for attorney's costs, travel expenses, hotel bills, and missed income from missed work, (and wrongful prosecution?), to fight this in court.

Face it, it doesn't cost much for them to mail form letters and pay someone to make phone calls. Increase your leverage by making them understand you are innocent and it will cost them if they persue it. the more it will cost them the more likely they will be to drop it.

I would only do this if I could prove that I bought the unit for a legitmate use. Kinda like the farmer that buys chemicals for fertilizier that can also be made into a bomb.

Nobody can tell me there aren't legitmate uses for these devices. Telling them over the phone is your word against theirs and ignoring their leters makes you look guilty.

[Dean_M_Love]

...I think I would also add defamation in there as well, for alleging "unlawful reception"....

[Bubba Mike]

Thanks for all the advice, I believe I will send a letter, unfortunately my writing skills suck, anybody want to make a few bucks and write a really intimidating for me to send. I know it sounds silly but I don't want to make things worse by saying the wrong things.

Thanks
Bubba

[Electraglide]

Originally posted by Bubba Mike
Thanks for all the advice, I believe I will send a letter, unfortunately my writing skills suck, anybody want to make a few bucks and write a really intimidating for me to send. I know it sounds silly but I don't want to make things worse by saying the wrong things.

Thanks
Bubba

Yeah, a Lawyer:gg

[Justin]

I want to follow up and explain myself so people don't do stupid things. (and a little more about the strategy )

and remember I'm no lawyer this is not legal advice.

1. Don't admit anything.
Bubba already did, that is the only reason I told him (if he was willing to back up his claim) to write the threatening letter.

2. Don't try to negotiate over the phone.
These people are just like bill collectors. They make their living intimidating people, very few people are good enough to be able to play their game and win. Don't play that game.

3. Make them jump through hoops.
Again these people are like bill collectors, they love phone harassment and form letters. Without being rude or admitting guilt make them do things that can not be explained by sending you a form letter. The more work you make them do, the more likely they are to move on to an "easier" target.

4. Go on the offensive.
If you are going to play the your innoocent card. Then use the leverage of a countersuit. that's where you threaten for suing them for your attorney's fees, airline and hotel bills, time for lost work, etc. to prove your innocence. They don't want to pick a fight with someone that might end up costing them money.

5. Give them a way out
If you are truly innocent, an affidavit from you stating that you are innocent and have not commited the alleged offences may just make sure that they don't just give up on you only to pass your "account" on to the next lawyer.

The best advice of course is to hire a lawyer :)

P.S.
To add to #3 above, drag it out. example, ask for a photostat of the charge slip, then wait a few days (closer to a month), then write back and ask for a copy of the actual invoice, then a wait, then a copy of the advertisemnt, then a wait, then a copy of the proof of delivery, if a signature is missing, then another letter asking them how they know it was you, etc. Each time they have to do something that can't be answered with a form letter, and you can easily drag this out for over 6 months . Get the idea? make them work for it.

[indy 500]

here's cut and paste from another site:
copy - paste

Legal Laws, Statutes, & Procedures.
As an attorney and a fellow smart-card testing hobbist, & other, which I won't say. I will inform others so as to address most of your concerns, your legal rights, protections and liabilities.

As a criminal defense attorney, (Post Conviction appeals attorney) I have researched, read all current statutes both criminal & civil, and every single case law that has come down involving satellite, Dss DirecTV, Dishnetwork, & singal transmission, as well as rights & property rights to air & land.

Also, I have read & researched the law that DirecTV is currently using to attack dealers located in the U.S.

Lets first start out by pointing out that as far as the hardware equipment. Because of the fact, that there are legitimate uses of programmers (i.e. smart-card testing, programming various smartcards for company Id's, security, printing novelty id's, parking passes, etc......) having possession of programming equipment alone is not enough to warrant any kind of criminal or civil charge. Also, even having a programmer, software and a satellite card itself is not enough by itself enough to warrant any violation of the law or warrant any civil action. There MUST be more supporting evidence to pass the test.....

So, all of you out there in the United States, there is no need to worry about any law enforcement coming to arrest you. Also, even if you have a dish attached to your home, is still not enough evidence because of again other uses....

Now, the other supporting evidence can be the following. You are caught selling to an undercover officier, you get set up, **usually, you will always be setup by someone you know & trust, thats the way it is guys/gals...thats how over 90% of every single case got the person arrested. Someone the person knew & trusted, got the defendant to program a bunch of cards that were numbers, tag & listed on the arrest warrant, so that when you programmed the cards, the cards would come back matching the seriel number. Also, "Marked money" the money paid to you will be marked. So now your busted.

Another way is your sloppy & open about what your doing and you become "High Profile" bingo, you just caught the attention of the feds...

You need to be very aware of your surroundings, pay attention. Use your head. In almost every single raid on US dealers, it was because they made the statements "Promoting the illegal activity that their product could accomplish. Instead of just making a disclaimer statement & Not promoting the actual use of the product...Leave that up to the buyer. As long as your include the info in your disclaimer, customers can read between the lines what the products can do.

And always if you make a description do so in the statement of for testing & educational purposes with every single product. This way you are not advocating an illegal action. Bottom line it is totally up to the end user.

(ex) If a seller in another country is selling a product that is legal there where the seller and/or **Business is located, and a buyer who lives in a country where the product is illegal to sell, and that buyer orders that product, then if the product doesn't caught at customers, which BTW, is at the buyers risk, and the package passes through and arrives at buyers, than it is buyers risk to use that product. The seller has no legal liability the product is legal where the **business is located.

In the Dss satellite world, its alittle easier becuase of the fact that there are legit uses of the product, so even better for the seller and the buyer...so long as the buyer doesn't get caught using the product in the manner which it wasn't intended for**disclaimer of the seller.

Most cases in the U.S. you Must be caught "Red Handed" otherwise it is really a heavy burden on the prosecution to prove you have the "Intent" to commit a violation of a criminal law.

"Intent is a specific mind" action.....thats why you must be caught "Red Handed" suffieient evidence. You could literally have a warehouse full of loaders, with no atmel flash, have a business selling smart-card educational-testing equipment, and training products. You could have blank smart card for practice, laminating equipment to protect smartcards and all other supporting accessories that go along with making smartcards. Now, how can law enforcement prove that you are conducting an illegal business? Only one way, What is it?.....

Thats why DirecTV can only sue these individuals in civil court, not criminal, too heavy a burden to over-come(beyond reasonable doubt) so, if there is the possibility that the product could be used for a legit purpose, than you MUST acquit!!! No Other Choice. However, under civil rule, just have to satisfy " Perponderence of the evidence" thus, is it likely, that the defendant would use the equipment for illegal purposes, ..likely, yes.....thus, rule in Directv favor, & now your liable for civil award.

Of course, you can appeal all the way up to our U.S Supreme Court, which will take or about 5-6 years ha ha ha Directv!

Alot can happen in 5-6 years. As for these letters they send out with threats...." The Art of War" the greatest tatic, put your opponet on the defensive, out-spend them, cause them to fold, it will cost less to agree to give up, then to fight......well, if you guys only knew....here it is.....1st, just keep that copy of that letter, don't do a damm thing!, thats right! they are waiting for you to make the first move. "The Art of War" the warrior beat his opponet just by doing nothing, he simply out-stared him, made him blink first. He won the battle without even raising his sword once!

If they make another move, they will have to notify you as to what they intend to do. Civil law, you'll know exactly what they have on you before you even go to court, unlike criminal, you don't know until you get arrested.

Civil cases, they must prove damages first before they can even file a lawsuit, and it must meet the criteira of an act, cause & effect, with damages resulting. They must prove that by your actions, you caused an event to happen and that event resulted in the loss of $$damages.

If they can't prove it was your actions, that your actions were not qusi-legal, and that the result of your actions caused the damages that they suffered, than they have no case, case dismissed, bye bye.. Many cases get tossed right at this level..

So you see guys, there is alot of things that have to happened before your on the hook. Look, be smart, I've given you enough information (read between the lines) on how to setup & conduct your business within the confines of the law....as long as your inside the box, than no one can bust you..

Keep & list all files catageory as testing & educational materials, purchase some smartcard accessories. Microsoft does alot with smartcard programming, you'll find alot under them. Now setup a legit smartcard equipment sales, etc... Also, you might want to consider an Overseas company location where the companys main headquarters is located...there are many online services that can provide corp setup all legit with papers, 800# web-site, etc...for less than $600.00 (U.S.) dollars.

Good luck

end quote

As always, if you have any doubts please contact your favorite attorney.

After a person replied to the above post stating "so don't do ananything, right?"

This was his reply:
copy - paste
quote
Thats Right
Don't do a damm thing, The burden is on them to prove you have violated any laws. Here are the 3 hurdles to overcome, this is how I just won a case for a client of mine charged with illegal possession of programmers that I won, got dissmissed and had all the inventory returned,

In order to charge anyone of violation of a law: Must Prove:

1. Intent: intent is a specific state of mind. that the defendant intented and knew he.she was violating the law.

This is very had to overcome, since there are other legal purposes & uses for programmers. (i.e. Educational, testing, your business, inventing, etc...

They Must prove that you had no other intent to use such equipment. My client had blank smart-cards, tags, badges, laminating machine with pouches in his possession, we said that he had a home-based business making id's for students, novelty ids, and developing smart-card security techniques...

Since the morons could not disprove this fact, judge threw out the case.

2. Must have supporting evidence, its not enough that they conviscated your programmer, software files, and cards...Must show that you intented to conduct an illegal activity, an on-going enterprise, selling cards to I.e. under-cover cop, or being setup by someone, like you know & trust, marked moneym cards, audio-tape from a wire, things like these...if they don't have supporting evidence, case dismissed

3. Damages, must show & prove that your actions in violation of the law caused damages upon someone (victim) If they can't show this...case dismissed

See where I am going with this...Do yourself a favor, download microsoft smart-card tool making software, order some blank-smart-card badges, go to staples get a lamanating machine, & tags.... Now your in the smartcard business..... your welcome.

end copy-paste

[Justin]

Food for thought;

When 2 lawyers go to court, 1 lawyer wins, 1 lawyer loses.
In other words lawyers are only right 50% of the time.

[js289]

Justin, I think you might want to say-1 client wins, 1 client loses- both lawyers get paid. That's the unfairness of it all.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi indy 500
,

Unfortunately that lawyer uss the nick of runninrebel and while he is a lawyer, he is a suspended one and cannot practise law. We know all about him, his real name and the unfortunate situation he is in.

Apparently he has also scammed a few testers too who believed in him.

Any time a lawyer wants to tell you how to do an illegal act and get away with it, then he is very suspect since good lawyers would not go anywhere near doing that.

So do not get too excited about Richard Howarth because here is his situation




Massachusetts Board of Bar Overseers
of the Supreme Judicial Court
75 Federal Street
Boston, Ma. 02110
Attorney Status Report

Richard R Howarth Jr.

North Providence RI 02904

Admitted to the bar on 12/15/93
Current status is Suspended

Next Registration : September


Full office addresses for active status attorneys only.
Disciplinary History

1. 9/17/01 XXX: Temporary Suspension from Practice
Data updated every 2 weeks.



You can see this for yourself at:

http://db.state.ma.us/obcbbo/bboreg/lookup.asp



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