What to do with your letter

[freetv4mee]

My hope is only to give pause to anyone contemplating the use of an attorney in responding to dave. Anyone here capable of understanding this predominately European technology is certainly capable of out-witting dave's rented lawyers!

Unless it can be shown that you have directly defrauded Dave, I suggest not spending any money on a lawyer. Why spend $1500 -- $3000 to have someone write a letter on your behalf? I've never understood why we, as americans (i'd love to hear some Canadian agreement or disagreement on this of course ;-), are so apt to believe that the "cable" company, and other "big scary" corporations for this matter, will drive us into personal bankruptcy through legal means? The govt certainly doesn't want any corporation to drive tax-paying citizens into bankruptcy, thus dave can only take his threats so far.
The worst thing I see from these letters is that certain lawyers are getting rich writing letters on behalf of more than half the people here and Dave of course loves it. Dave hopes to succeed in scaring any "thief" enough into at least paying some lawyer to ask what you already have the right in requesting: Proof of your guilt.
The rule of thumb is to always make the other guy cough up the information before offering anything other than name, rank and confirmation of receipt of the certified letter.

First of all, DTV does not control local law enforcement, and unless some form of the law enters your premises with the sole intent of establishing irrefutable proof of wrongdoing, dave and its outsourced law firm will not win many of these cases. The cases they will win involve only those who have left a money trail proving that substantial loss to the company likely occured. For example, if you bought 10 emu-cubes on your personal Credit Card and had all ten units sent to ten different subscribed person's houses, and these ten people subsequently all closed their dave accounts soon after your gift, then you probably should get the lawyer. Otherwise, the mere fact that you've purchased devices used for sometimes programming NDS cards does not in any way prove one has defrauded dave.--(it's the reason we flash those atmel chips remember?).

So, if you've purchased an unlooper or two over time and your name wound up on a list after the raid of some company intent on profitting from this black market, ask yourself who is ultimately going to prove you ever used their products to directly defraud dave? Dave's anti-piracy department can't pay law enforcement to do squat.
In similar fashion, RJ Reynolds can't pay Santa Cruz policemen to raid the houses of small time dope dealers let alone the users.
Honestly, who is going to prove anybody here actually learned how to defraud dave through ones own private intellectual property?
This is complete rocket science to the laymen and proving you possess and use your intellectual property to directly profit off dave's lost revenue is a monumental task on dave's part. Factor in that dave does have a limited legal budget and is certainly unlikely to spend it on small fish, unless that small fish makes further implicative mistakes along the way.

To everyone in receipt of a letter simply do the following:
Subscribe immediately to Dave. (Once you're a customer, dave will likely cross reference before sending letter #2, and likely won't send any follow-up to a paying subscriber).
Subscribe under your spouses name if you're the one that received the letter, but use the same address of course--(this simply legitimizes the fact you even have a dave dish on your roof!).
Better yet, go buy the two-receiver deal at your local good guys and get the dish professionally installed through the dealer--you'll get the football games on two more tv's at the very least.
Last and most delicate:
Have a friend or colleague respond to the letter on your behalf implying only that you received the letter. Request copies of anything they plan on using in a court of law, have the non-complicit friend sign and send the letter back. (protect your friend of course!don't use a fellow enthusiest of "freetv" unless they've subscribed and gone legit themselves of course).
Wait for the proof to arrive and plan your strategy accordingly, if even necessary. Remember, the DMCA is paving the way for one big backfire once everything starts going the way of TiVo-like DVRs and such. Dave's going to have other problems and is already doing enough on the datstream side of things.

Follow these steps and ultimately treat yourself to $2000 worth of golf based on the money saved by leaving the lawyers out of it. While on the golf course, enjoy your new-found peace-of-mind because that stupid intimidation letter succeeded in only getting you to go legit which is all Dave really cares about in the first place. If you ain't a kingpin in this hobby, don't sweat it!:cool:

Best of Luck to all!

Disclaimer:
These are only suggestions, please don't hold me responsible if my risky approach is not for you. my limited knowledge comes from my time at a "small-to-big" software corp. As we grew we added a legal department...they outsourced everything and all anti-piracy letters were almost ALWAYS for intimidation purposes only. Follow-up was not practical in almost all cases.

[mrself_destruct]

Dave has already made it clear that he will file suit against people who ignore the letter...so go ahead and ignore it....you will end up hiring a lawyer anyways...or have a default judgement against you.


Originally posted by freetv4mee
My hope is only to give pause to anyone contemplating the use of an attorney in responding to dave. Anyone here capable of understanding this predominately European technology is certainly capable of out-witting dave's rented lawyers!

Unless it can be shown that you have directly defrauded Dave, I suggest not spending any money on a lawyer. Why spend $1500 -- $3000 to have someone write a letter on your behalf? I've never understood why we, as americans (i'd love to hear some Canadian agreement or disagreement on this of course ;-), are so apt to believe that the "cable" company, and other "big scary" corporations for this matter, will drive us into personal bankruptcy through legal means? The govt certainly doesn't want any corporation to drive tax-paying citizens into bankruptcy, thus dave can only take his threats so far.
The worst thing I see from these letters is that certain lawyers are getting rich writing letters on behalf of more than half the people here and Dave of course loves it. Dave hopes to succeed in scaring any "thief" enough into at least paying some lawyer to ask what you already have the right in requesting: Proof of your guilt.
The rule of thumb is to always make the other guy cough up the information before offering anything other than name, rank and confirmation of receipt of the certified letter.

First of all, DTV does not control local law enforcement, and unless some form of the law enters your premises with the sole intent of establishing irrefutable proof of wrongdoing, dave and its outsourced law firm will not win many of these cases. The cases they will win involve only those who have left a money trail proving that substantial loss to the company likely occured. For example, if you bought 10 emu-cubes on your personal Credit Card and had all ten units sent to ten different subscribed person's houses, and these ten people subsequently all closed their dave accounts soon after your gift, then you probably should get the lawyer. Otherwise, the mere fact that you've purchased devices used for sometimes programming NDS cards does not in any way prove one has defrauded dave.--(it's the reason we flash those atmel chips remember?).

So, if you've purchased an unlooper or two over time and your name wound up on a list after the raid of some company intent on profitting from this black market, ask yourself who is ultimately going to prove you ever used their products to directly defraud dave? Dave's anti-piracy department can't pay law enforcement to do squat.
In similar fashion, RJ Reynolds can't pay Santa Cruz policemen to raid the houses of small time dope dealers let alone the users.
Honestly, who is going to prove anybody here actually learned how to defraud dave through ones own private intellectual property?
This is complete rocket science to the laymen and proving you possess and use your intellectual property to directly profit off dave's lost revenue is a monumental task on dave's part. Factor in that dave does have a limited legal budget and is certainly unlikely to spend it on small fish, unless that small fish makes further implicative mistakes along the way.

To everyone in receipt of a letter simply do the following:
Subscribe immediately to Dave. (Once you're a customer, dave will likely cross reference before sending letter #2, and likely won't send any follow-up to a paying subscriber).
Subscribe under your spouses name if you're the one that received the letter, but use the same address of course--(this simply legitimizes the fact you even have a dave dish on your roof!).
Better yet, go buy the two-receiver deal at your local good guys and get the dish professionally installed through the dealer--you'll get the football games on two more tv's at the very least.
Last and most delicate:
Have a friend or colleague respond to the letter on your behalf implying only that you received the letter. Request copies of anything they plan on using in a court of law, have the non-complicit friend sign and send the letter back. (protect your friend of course!don't use a fellow enthusiest of "freetv" unless they've subscribed and gone legit themselves of course).
Wait for the proof to arrive and plan your strategy accordingly, if even necessary. Remember, the DMCA is paving the way for one big backfire once everything starts going the way of TiVo-like DVRs and such. Dave's going to have other problems and is already doing enough on the datstream side of things.

Follow these steps and ultimately treat yourself to $2000 worth of golf based on the money saved by leaving the lawyers out of it. While on the golf course, enjoy your new-found peace-of-mind because that stupid intimidation letter succeeded in only getting you to go legit which is all Dave really cares about in the first place. If you ain't a kingpin in this hobby, don't sweat it!:cool:

Best of Luck to all!

Disclaimer:
These are only suggestions, please don't hold me responsible if my risky approach is not for you. my limited knowledge comes from my time at a "small-to-big" software corp. As we grew we added a legal department...they outsourced everything and all anti-piracy letters were almost ALWAYS for intimidation purposes only. Follow-up was not practical in almost all cases.

[animalchin]

i have a better idea...
get a digital camera.
Take a picture of your middle finger.
Print it (color if possible)
Mail to dave's lawyers.

Until i hear a true court story all you people that work for Dave can go suck a ----.

[jimmylegend]

i agree with Animalchin

[SpinyNorman]

I think it would be cool to have a counter by your name that other forum users can use to cast a vote if they think your a Mole. After you hit some set number, your icon would be a actual Mole.

[mrself_destruct]

Animalchin...here's a list of "true court stories" end-users being sued by Dave. This is just a list of open cases, doesn't include closed cases (settled or default judgements).

Most have been filed within the last two months, but go ahead....ignore the letter, Dave's bluffing, he won't sue anyone....

This list was taken from the PACER system:

10 DIRECTV utdc 2:2002cv00999 09/06/2002 890
DIRECTV vs. CARLSON
11 DIRECTV utdc 2:2002cv01000 09/06/2002 890
DIRECTV vs. SLAGLE
68 DIRECTV, INC ordce 3:2001cv00808 06/27/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC vs. KUTSEV
69 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00305 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. HOWARD
70 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00306 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. STOKES
71 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00307 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. THOMAS
72 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00308 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MOORE
73 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00309 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JENKINS
74 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00310 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JOLLY
75 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00311 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. HOWZE
76 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00314 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BOYD
77 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00315 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. ADAMS
78 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00316 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. WILLIAMS
79 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00317 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MCDADE
80 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00318 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MAYS
81 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00319 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BROWN
82 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00320 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. IRONS
86 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00523 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. CLAIBORNE
87 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00524 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. THOMPSON
88 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00526 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BAILEY
89 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00527 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. COWAN
90 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00528 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. DORSEY
91 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00529 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. HARRIS
92 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00530 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JOHNSON
93 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00531 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MCGEE
94 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00532 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. VESSELL
95 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00533 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. WALLS
96 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00534 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. WINFORD
97 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 5:2002cv00535 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. WOODBERRY
98 DIRECTV, INC. nyndc 1:2002cv00608 05/08/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. AMELL
99 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 2:2002cv00622 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. PAIGE
100 DIRECTV, INC. ohndce 5:2002cv00706 04/16/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BLACKBURN
102 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 6:2002cv00820 07/19/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JALIO
137 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 3:2002cv00828 08/27/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. LONDON
138 DIRECTV, INC. pamdc 1:2002cv00915 05/29/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MILLER
142 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01255 07/18/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JONES
143 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01328 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. HALL
144 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01329 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MCDANIEL
145 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01330 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. SLAY
146 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01331 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BURNS
147 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01332 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. CROSBY
148 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 3:2002cv01333 08/08/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. GARMON
149 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 8:2002cv01346 07/26/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. JAMES
150 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 8:2002cv01530 08/21/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BYLE
151 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 8:2002cv01591 08/30/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. AMBLER
152 DIRECTV, INC. nysdc 1:2002cv02241 03/21/2002 820
DIRECTV, INC. vs. ROSENBERG
153 DIRECTV, INC. mddc 1:2002cv02707 08/16/2002 422
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BEPKO
154 DIRECTV, INC. mddc 1:2002cv02962 09/06/2002 422
BEPKO vs. DIRECTV, INC.
155 DIRECTV, INC. nysdc 7:2002cv03518 05/07/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. BOTTA
157 DIRECTV, INC. ohndce 3:2002cv07199 04/16/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. CHAMBERS
158 DIRECTV, INC. flsdc 1:2002cv22256 07/30/2002 450
DIRECTV, INC. vs. LEON
159 DIRECTV, INC. flsdc 1:2002cv22582 08/30/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. SADHI
160 DIRECTV, INC. flsdc 0:2002cv61047 07/29/2002 450
DIRECTV, INC. vs. KAWKINS
161 DIRECTV, INC. flsdc 9:2002cv80728 08/01/2002 450
DIRECTV, INC. vs. MAYER
163 DIRECTV, INC., nyedce 1:2002cv02780 05/08/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC., vs. BONGAY
212 DIRECTV INC azdc 2:2001cv02140 11/02/2001 890
DIRECTV INC vs. DAVIS
213 DIRECTV INC azdc 2:2001cv02141 11/02/2001 890
DIRECTV INC vs. STIENS
214 DIRECTV INC azdc 2:2001cv02142 11/02/2001 890
DIRECTV INC vs. SIMMONS
217 DIRECTV INC txndc 3:2001cv02537 11/30/2001 890
DIRECTV INC vs. ASHLEY
228 DIRECTV INC medc 1:2002cv00093 05/29/2002 890
DIRECTV INC vs. HUTTON
267 DIRECTV INC ctdc 3:2002cv00224 02/06/2002 820
DIRECTV INC vs. BURDSALL
268 DIRECTV INC ohsdc 1:2002cv00262 04/16/2002 890
DIRECTV INC vs. ANGEL
269 DIRECTV INC flndc 3:2002cv00351 08/28/2002 890
DIRECTV INC vs. COOLEY
270 DIRECTV INC wiedc 2:2002cv00372 04/15/2002 820
DIRECTV INC vs. KUECHENMEISTER
272 DIRECTV INC scdc 2:2002cv00717 03/05/2002 820
DIRECTV INC vs. HINSON
273 DIRECTV INC txndc 4:2002cv00727 08/29/2002 890
DIRECTV INC vs. ASHLEY
274 DIRECTV INC txsdc 4:2002cv02148 06/05/2002 820
DIRECTV INC vs. SALAZAR
DIRECTV, INC. vs. FAIL
311 DIRECTV, INC. flmdc 5:2002cv00244 08/16/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. SWEAT
312 DIRECTV, INC. ncmdc 1:2002cv00266 04/09/2002 890
DIRECTV, INC. vs. UMSTEAD
313 DIRECTV, INC. msndc 1:2002cv00284 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. FRANKS
314 DIRECTV, INC. mssdc 4:2002cv00304 08/06/2002 190
DIRECTV, INC. vs. HUTTO




Originally posted by animalchin
i have a better idea...
get a digital camera.
Take a picture of your middle finger.
Print it (color if possible)
Mail to dave's lawyers.

Until i hear a true court story all you people that work for Dave can go suck a ----. :gg

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

Yes I am with mrself_destruct, Dave is just bluffing. Go ahead and forget all about it.....for now.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrkblack.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/rotate_rib.gif
To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/satelliterights.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif

Our Deepest Condolences one year later too (http://www.legal-rights.org/condolences.html) <-- Click here Please


Please DONATE for the SUPREME COURT CENSORSHIP BATTLE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html) <-- Click here Please!

Por favor dona para la BATALLA EN LA SUPREMA CORTE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)<-- Haz Click aqui!

---------

[gunsmoke2]

The first post is full of errors and gives misleading and false hopes..


If you want to ignore the letter go ahead and the second too.. then come back and report your results.


Goog Luck


GS2

[marblesetter]

Well i have gotten a 3rd letter with a complaint ( 5 flipping pages of mumbo jumbo long ) recently and they want to sue me for 850. bucks .I have ignored them all . I have ten day's to reply or a judgement will be placed . Yadda ,Yadda , Yadda .

I certainly would not have a friend reply to the letter ,let alone i myself reply , You would be cutting your own throat by admitting that you steal DAVE's signal .And i do subsribe so by doing that it still does not take you off of DAVE's list. I call Bullschit on this mass mailing of letter's .

I guess i will have to wait and see if a fourth letter comes and what it holds , And then decide what if any action to take .

[einstein99]

3RD LETTER?

I really don't think so...

850 bucks? not hardly...

If a guy won't settle a nuisance lawsuit for $850.00 they've got a screw loose...

ein.

[jones07]

$850 bucks !! The check would have been in the mail box "express next day mail" before I even posted here. :cool:

Now if you did not do anything that's another story.

But I'm as guilty as sin :R

[mandingo]

Well I too got the letter by FedEX. Wife signed for it, but Oh well. Spoke to one attorney from legal-rights, and before he takes the case he asked me three questions, and said after thinking about them to call him back. The three questions:
1)Did I purchase the hardware to steal Daves signal?
2)Did I purchase more than one item?
3)Did I know what the consequences of perjery were?

He also said he had three clients that were being sued, and others that had contacted him to say they had been served.(Actual court cases) He also said most of his clients have settled, but that now Dave has a non-negotiation policy. Well I haven't made up my mind as to what I am going to do, but folks definitely take the time to consult with an attorney. I have read the advice on a lot of forums, from ignoring the letter to settling. Do whats best for you and yours.

[gunsmoke2]

Well i have gotten a 3rd letter with a complaint ( 5 flipping pages of mumbo jumbo long ) recently and they want to sue me for 850. bucks .I have ignored them all . I have ten day's to reply or a judgement will be placed . Yadda ,Yadda , Yadda .

I certainly would not have a friend reply to the letter ,let alone i myself reply , You would be cutting your own throat by admitting that you steal DAVE's signal .And i do subsribe so by doing that it still does not take you off of DAVE's list. I call Bullschit on this mass mailing of letter's .

I guess i will have to wait and see if a fourth letter comes and what it holds , And then decide what if any action to take .


You say you have 10 days to reply or otherwise there will be a Judgement against you but then you say you are going to wait for a fourth letter. Why do you think there will be a fourth letter if they are going to get a Judgement against you ?




GS2

[jones07]

Originally posted by mandingo
Well I too got the letter by FedEX. Wife signed for it, but Oh well. Spoke to one attorney from legal-rights, and before he takes the case he asked me three questions, and said after thinking about them to call him back. The three questions:
1)Did I purchase the hardware to steal Daves signal?
2)Did I purchase more than one item?
3)Did I know what the consequences of perjery were?
.

Could you please tell me the dealer you got your hardware from that you think give you up. If you do not wish to say in open forum could you Please PM me the dealers name.

thank you

[freetv4mee]

The predominately 'gloom-and-doom' atmosphere in this particular forum regarding these intimidation letters certainly supports my belief that once dave sends that letter out, the recipient's guilty conscience will absolutely do the rest.

Here are my latest thoughts for what they're worth,--(not worth much per my wife) but here goes anyhow:
If your name isn't Shanty or Escobar or Atta, the F.B.I. likely won't be knocking on your door anytime soon. The psychology here on Dave's part is brilliant, and it will continue to work as long as people are conditioned to run to lawyers whenever intimidated.
The only horror story I've actually read thus far regarding these letters is how much money people are willing to pay lawyers!

I want everyone to imagine that dave's people aren't allowed to even post anything here regarding law because it could lead to false representation of the company.
With this in mind, start realizing that all the mis or dis-information floating around exists because absolutely nobody in-the-know actually posts here. Just as nobody really knows when the next ecm will hit. For years people have claimed to know when the cards were in 'jeopardy' but only dave and a few employees ever knew. Dave and his anti-piracy group know full well that probably less than .002% of their threatened lawsuits will actually be successful in prosecuting and jailing pirates in this community. Does this mean the postage was squandered on Fedex expenses by Dave? Absolutely not because the letters have already had their desired effects within the underground community. The paranoia has far supplanted the reality of the situation here people. Despite the list of lawsuits posted earlier in this thread, only those names that can be proven to have actually harmed dave in some monetary fashion will lead to prosecution. of this even smaller percentage, most will likely be punished with fines after proof of financial harm is proven and quantified.
The remaining 99.9% of the people who have received these letters
should experience nothing more than a little "nuisance" work in the way of simple correspondence denying any wrongdoing in the most ambiguous of way possible. How one chooses to deny this is up to the individual of course.

Now if I were to find myself in this particular situation I would be certain to acknowledge receipt of dave's letter with a short non-incriminating letter. If another letter were to follow, I would again acknowledge receiving the letter but again ask for more info and clarification of any wrongdoing.--(Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but it's a great excuse for not understanding letters written in legaleze).
...As many months as dave chooses to correspond with me I would follow suit until the letters eventually stopped or until after dave has built a sufficient case against me warranting my summons to court, which I wager 10,000-1 will never happen.

I will summize by suggesting that everyone that received a letter relish in the opportunity to F*CK with dave until the cows come home! I will say it again because it sounded so nice the first time, "If you ain't a kingpin in this hobby, don't sweat it!


"Prove that I used my intellectual property in the way you say dave!"

[directvp4]

GEO2, does the term DISCOVERY mean anything to you? Any GOOD lawyer does and it means everything in proving or disproving a case!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marblesetter]

Originally posted by einstein99
3RD LETTER?

I really don't think so...

850 bucks? not hardly...

If a guy won't settle a nuisance lawsuit for $850.00 they've got a screw loose...

ein.

I will attach the flipping letter , Cause right now i am staring at 3 letters . and it say's 10,000 for each Pirate Access Device imported into the U.S and attorny fees of 850.


and gunsmoke2 if they went out to send 3 then i bet there will be a fourth . I recieved the 3rd on the 17 th of this month . So tommorrow is the final day . This is the letter :
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Yarmuth Wilsdon Calfo pllc

As you are aware ,This law firm represents direct T.V in the prosecution of civil cases relating to the illegal possesion and/or use of devices designed to aid in the unauthorized reception of its satellite television programming . As i previously informed you , your purchase and use of satellite signal theft equipment violates federal and state laws. In my earlier letter's i requested that you contact me regarding your purchase,possesion, and use of this illegal equipment.Regrettably, I have not heard from you . Consequently, direct T.V has instructed me to give you a final opportunity to resolve this dispute prior to judical action . If i do not hear from you within 10 day's from the date of this letter,direct T.V has instructed me to file a lawsuit based on the draft complaint enclosed with this letter.

Direct T.V remains committed to resolving this matter outside of court and in an amicable manner. However, unless i hear from you within the next ten day's, Direct T.V can only conclude that you do not wish to pursue such an alternative .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There you have it , and if you read the flipping complaint it would make your eye's bleed .

[mrself_destruct]

I dont think there's any gloom and doom here, it's jsut people are trying to figure out the best way to handle this.

I think you gotta play hardcall with Dave and have your attorney DENY his allegations to the letter and threaten a counter-suit.

Of course, that's just my opinion....I could be wrong


{QUOTE]Originally posted by freetv4mee
The predominately 'gloom-and-doom' atmosphere in this particular forum regarding these intimidation letters certainly supports my belief that once dave sends that letter out, the recipient's guilty conscience will absolutely do the rest.

Here are my latest thoughts for what they're worth,--(not worth much per my wife) but here goes anyhow:
If your name isn't Shanty or Escobar or Atta, the F.B.I. likely won't be knocking on your door anytime soon. The psychology here on Dave's part is brilliant, and it will continue to work as long as people are conditioned to run to lawyers whenever intimidated.
The only horror story I've actually read thus far regarding these letters is how much money people are willing to pay lawyers!

I want everyone to imagine that dave's people aren't allowed to even post anything here regarding law because it could lead to false representation of the company.
With this in mind, start realizing that all the mis or dis-information floating around exists because absolutely nobody in-the-know actually posts here. Just as nobody really knows when the next ecm will hit. For years people have claimed to know when the cards were in 'jeopardy' but only dave and a few employees ever knew. Dave and his anti-piracy group know full well that probably less than .002% of their threatened lawsuits will actually be successful in prosecuting and jailing pirates in this community. Does this mean the postage was squandered on Fedex expenses by Dave? Absolutely not because the letters have already had their desired effects within the underground community. The paranoia has far supplanted the reality of the situation here people. Despite the list of lawsuits posted earlier in this thread, only those names that can be proven to have actually harmed dave in some monetary fashion will lead to prosecution. of this even smaller percentage, most will likely be punished with fines after proof of financial harm is proven and quantified.
The remaining 99.9% of the people who have received these letters
should experience nothing more than a little "nuisance" work in the way of simple correspondence denying any wrongdoing in the most ambiguous of way possible. How one chooses to deny this is up to the individual of course.

Now if I were to find myself in this particular situation I would be certain to acknowledge receipt of dave's letter with a short non-incriminating letter. If another letter were to follow, I would again acknowledge receiving the letter but again ask for more info and clarification of any wrongdoing.--(Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but it's a great excuse for not understanding letters written in legaleze).
...As many months as dave chooses to correspond with me I would follow suit until the letters eventually stopped or until after dave has built a sufficient case against me warranting my summons to court, which I wager 10,000-1 will never happen.

I will summize by suggesting that everyone that received a letter relish in the opportunity to F*CK with dave until the cows come home! I will say it again because it sounded so nice the first time, "If you ain't a kingpin in this hobby, don't sweat it!


"Prove that I used my intellectual property in the way you say dave!" [/QUOTE] :eek: :R

[To The Real King!!]

Hi marblesetter
,

Did you happen to notice that they are suing you for $10,850.00 and not $850.00

The minimum is $10,850.000 if you just bought one device but it would be $20,850.00 if you bought 2 devices and so on.

So why did you tell us they were suing for $850.00 when thats only the lawyers costs.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

When you get the default judgement it will be for a minimum of $10,850.00 or more.

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrkblack.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/rotate_rib.gif
To The REAL King!!

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/satelliterights.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif

Our Deepest Condolences one year later too (http://www.legal-rights.org/condolences.html) <-- Click here Please


Please DONATE for the SUPREME COURT CENSORSHIP BATTLE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html) <-- Click here Please!

Por favor dona para la BATALLA EN LA SUPREMA CORTE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)<-- Haz Click aqui!

[mandingo]

I bought an ISO programmer from white viper. I am not so much worried about that. I could probably prove that it was used for the job, since I am a computer programmer. However, what happens when my name turns up on a list for a DPBB? Now they would have proof that I possibly lied in court. That is what I am looking into now. What is this all worth to me. I too think they are reaching a bit with this letter, but as its been said over and over, the long term costs may be more costly in the long run. I have heard a figure of about 3500, tossed about. Well if you look at it this way, that is about what it would costs the average home for a full blown sub, and some PPV. Toss in their supposed fees and your right around that number. Just a thought. I will speak with my attorney later today and post back. So far all they have is that I bought an ISO programmer. Will make a decision after talking to him, and thinking about it over the weekend.

[Mellonball]

I find it irresponsible to advise someone not to obtain a lawyer. There is only one answer if you get the letter - call your lawyer.

[gunsmoke2]

Dave and his anti-piracy group know full well that probably less than .002% of their threatened lawsuits will actually be successful in prosecuting and jailing pirates in this community.


You say its gloom and doom but you go ahead and say their threatening lawsuits ( less than .002% ) will actually be successful in prosecuting and jailing pirates in the community. Do you know the difference between a Civil Lawsuit and Criminal charges. They are no prosecuters in a Civil lawsuit but rather a Plaintif and a Defendent.


Now if I were to find myself in this particular situation I would be certain to acknowledge receipt of dave's letter with a short non-incriminating letter. If another letter were to follow, I would again acknowledge receiving the letter but again ask for more info and clarification of any wrongdoing.--(Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but it's a great excuse for not understanding letters written in legaleze).
...As many months as dave chooses to correspond with me I would follow suit until the letters eventually stopped or until after dave has built a sufficient case against me warranting my summons to court, which I wager 10,000-1 will never happen.

I will summize by suggesting that everyone that received a letter relish in the opportunity to F*CK with dave until the cows come home! I will say it again because it sounded so nice the first time, "If you ain't a kingpin in this hobby, don't sweat it!


"Prove that I used my intellectual property in the way you say dave!"



I'll wager that it will happen. And if it does even with your 10,000-1 what will you do then if you are the one.? You are posting to say don't be scared and go tell DTV to F... themselves. How will that help anyone here. You also say don't hire an attorney in a legal matter and you call this good advice ?


Its not about intellectual property. Do you think that DTV is saying that programmers.. bootloaders.. unlooping devices, etc are their intellectual property ?



GS2

[marblesetter]

King , I Read into it by passing through it a six page complaint . And the prodommince of the the letter in Bold stated 850 . Until i was confronted that i was BSing you's and read into it more and then stated 10,000 for each unit . So i would be faced with 30,850. ( Ouch):( , But not to worry they will have to pry my boards out of my cold dead hands before they will take them .