Do they still have a case against me?

[slimboy]

I received my first letter yesterday. The purchase was made with my ex-girlfriends credit card and my roommate signed for delivery.I have been reading about this for awhile now and have heard all different kinds of ways to respond. I am just going to lay low and ignore it unless it gets real serious. I was just wondering what some of you might think about this kind of a situation and who is responsible?

[giveupdave]

You ordered it, you got the letter, and you are responsible.
I would not lie low if I were you, its not going to go away by itself.

[slimboy]

May i ask what you did in response then?

[morgana]

For some odd reason, I can not get it out of my mind that you are 100% ----ed. I am assuming the ex-girlfriend and you are not going to be on good terms and the room mate will probably turn on you if any heat comes his way.

Now I have now proof of this, and I can not say that this is the way it will go down. You and your ex maybe on great terms. I just get the feeling that you made your biggest mistake when you involed others who you had casual relationships with, into something you never should have let anyone know about. It is like commiting murder. If only you do it and never tell anyone about it, there is very little chance you will be caught. But involve one or more other people and it is almost certain you will get caught.

If DTV wants to investigate you, they now have two names for contacts who can say things you may not want them to say.

[giveupdave]

I will not run into the same problem, I live in Canada. Aswell, all my purchases were cash.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Slimboy,

You need to see a lawyer about this. I believe that since they cannot prove that you paid for it nor that your received it they will have a seriouc poblem in this case.

Its kind of hard to use something illegally that you did not get.

You can prove that you did not pay and they have no signature showing delivery and its NOT incumbant on you to explin who received it. That is for them to prove and since it was not you thats all you need say. You look in pretty good shape to me so go and see a lawyer. You can see that opinions here vary and that is why you should see a lawyer.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[JD490]

If your roommate and ex-girl friend and you watched free TV I would say you will need to consider settling. Now if you played around with smart cards for other reasons and didn't watch free TV then you have a good case. The 3 of you can testify that you did nothing with the device. Since your ex used her credit card and your roommate signed for the package this would be evidence that you all where there at the time. On the other hand if you did watch Free TV, and try to blame your ex-girl friend and roommate that probably would be bad. I'm sure Dave would cut a deal with the both of them to testify against you.

[Lager]

Originally posted by JD490
If your roommate and ex-girl friend and you watched free TV I would say you will need to consider settling. Now if you played around with smart cards for other reasons and didn't watch free TV then you have a good case. The 3 of you can testify that you did nothing with the device. Since your ex used her credit card and your roommate signed for the package this would be evidence that you all where there at the time. On the other hand if you did watch Free TV, and try to blame your ex-girl friend and roommate that probably would be bad. I'm sure Dave would cut a deal with the both of them to testify against you.

Cut a deal to testify against him/her? This isn't a criminal matter. How do you figure Dave has anything to bargin with in this situation? This sure sounds like an easy one to defend.

Lager

[JD490]

Dave will just sign agreements with the both of them not to sue them, and in return they help DircTV out. Its been done already with dealers, and others.

[Lager]

Yeah, but so what? It turns into he said/she said. Since she signed for it, I think she is the one in a jam here, not him. Give me a jury and odds are in my favour that most of them have allowed their live in partner or spouse use their cc for a purchase before.


Lager

[JD490]

That is true it would be he said she said, but you also have the roommate now its 2 against 1. DirecTV would also have to bring other evidence into it. Basicly this guy needs to speak to a good lawyer and figure out what his options are. Saying he has a good defense because he could say his EX bought it and not him isn't going to work. Remember he will be under oath if he were suid. Everyone wants a quick and cheap way out of this, but that isn't going to happen. I wish their was most that say don't worry about it probably have never received the letter. My perdiction is that 98% that receive the letter will settle sooner or later. Anyone that lies under oath is a fool, and this is just what DirecTV will expect you to do.

[Lager]

Anything could happen :) The thing is the original poster has not said anything about his current relationship with the ex or the roommate. Perhaps the roommate still lives there (didn't call him an ex). Yet a few people have all but said you are screwed and get a lawyer. I think we all need a little more information before anyone can tell him what kind of spot he has landed in. It is very unlikely that Dave is going to persue something that requires them taking depo's of 3 parties that are all compliceant and will tell differing verions of the facts. Dave is more interested in sheering the sheep as opposed to fighting the bear.

Lager


(edit) bad spelling.....bad bad spelling

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Lager,

Not only do I agree with you but how are they going to find the ex and this other guy, the roommate. They did not WRITE to them and he has no obligation to bring them up. He just needs to say he never bought it, never paid for it and never received it and they cannot prove that he did since he DID NOT.

He has no obligation to help them or tell them all kinds of other info.

Remember people answer ONLY what YOU are asked, don't go volunteering a bunch of info even if you think its exculpatory.

You NEVER received it PERIOD. You cannot steal with something you did not buy or receive. He did not buy it (the person who PAID did that) and he didn't receive it either.

Christ, what more do you want. It does NOT get easier than this.

Get your lawyer to WRITE (no telephone talk) that you never purchased anything from them and never received anything from them. Period, FULL STOP!!! END of DEFENCE.

How are they going to prove that you did when you did not pay for it and you did not receive it.

I can call anyone and tell them my name is Joe Blank, that proves D I C K ALL especially when I don't pay for it and I don't receive it. You cannot get an easier case than this one and all you guys who are so worried are out to lunch.

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[slimboy]

Thanks TTRK:). I feel a little better about this. I thought i might be in a better situation since i didn't pay for anything or receive it from UPS, but almost everyone here thought i was totally screwed. Im not sure why everyone thinks my roomate would be in trouble and have to turn me in or face legal trouble for signing a package? I don't have any legal knowledge and i am not sure of the requirements to bring forth a civil suit but it seems to me that a lawyer would have a hard time convincing a judge in this case to do so.

[Salty Jizm]

Originally posted by slimboy
Thanks TTRK:). Im not sure why everyone thinks my roomate would be in trouble and have to turn me in or face legal trouble for signing a package?

Since the device was never used, this does not apply. But if that device had been used to load cards, it is likely that your room mate would have known that. After all, suddenly every channel shows up on the TV and most room mate deals involve splitting of expenses. It is not difficult to envision a scenario where DTV offers to go easy on him for some testomony.

But because the device was never used, you have the benefit of your room mate's testomony to the effect.

[JD490]

Slimboy I would still consult an attorney before you decide on what to do.

[Salty Jizm]

Originally posted by JD490
Slimboy I would still consult an attorney before you decide on what to do.

And of course... Consult with the room mate and X to see what they are going to say too!

[Popcorn2]

I talked with my DirecTV representative this weekend, personal friend. He walked me through creating my Cease and Desist letter two weeks ago. My friend is rather high up on the chain with DirecTV as far an installers go, does Commercial units and teaches classes. We agreed that if you do not respond, they will think they have a Smuck they can intimidate and may file suit. They will figure you will not fight and they will get an easy default judgment.

Consult with an attorney if you like. I sent them a rather strongly worded Cease and Desist letter on Sept. 26, 02, Deadline to respond. Admit nothing, admit no wrong doing. If their going to file on you they will, and the odds are higher if you do not respond with a Cease and Desist Letter. I haven’t heard back from them yet but it’s only been a week.

[REDx]

well as is the case with most
of people who recieve the letter.
he doesnt have a case YET. just enough
to get to discovery. some will settle
some will ignore it all together.
some will fight. in the end no one
gets off scott free. it all comes
down to discovery. that will say
how much it will cost in the end.

[r12548]

I received my letter in July. They gave me untill August 2nd to respond so I wrote my own letter stating that I have done nothing wrong and have never created a so called "test card". I also told them that I haven't hired an attorney yet but would do so if needed so please take my name off their list. I have not heard back from them as of yet. I agree with Popcorn that if you don't reply to the letter then they think that you are not going to at give up a fight and they get their default. Just dont admit to nothing. Good luck

[thepoet]

slimboy, if two witnesses are called to testify in open court under oath and under penalty of perjury that the purchase was for you, then you're already up to your ears in the smelly brown stuff. One witness against you is a he-said/she-said non-starter. TWO witnesses against you is tougher to counter. Oh, and they WILL testify. Since they could be charged with complicity to commit a felony, they'll be VERY cooperative with DirecTV's sharks regardless of your current relationship with them. As to the silly notion that DirecTV's investigators are operating in a vacuum regarding these witnesses, of course they can be traced! The ex-girlfriend's credit card number guarentees that. If threatened with prosecution, she'll give up the roommate without blinking. (I'd advise against any further contact with either one of them. What you might presume would be a friendly get-together to B.S., knock off a few brewskies, smoke "something", or discuss strategy might result in an additional charge of witness tampering, a felony, if he/she is wired.) That kind of testimony is more evidence than DirecTV normally has in these cases, and they may choose to turn the matter over to local or federal authorities for criminal prosecution just for the notoriety value to "advertise" that they're serious in their fight against piracy. You have the potential to be the first enduser actually convicted of a felony under the DMCA in DirecTV's "letter program". You need a criminal lawyer's advice because this situation has already spun out of control.

[JD490]

Slimboy,
I wouldn't speak to the other 2 about anything to do with this. It won't matter anyway if they get a subpoena to testify they will talk. They are not going to lie for you in court. You don't want to discuss it with them it may be used against you later. Get a Lawyer and figure out what to do. I think "hear say" is legal to use in a civil case. I remember something from the OJ civil trial about that.

[Lager]

Everyone is scaring this guy needlessly. By all means, pay an attorney to tell you that if everyone here had the facts in your case Dave would never get a dime for anyone, period. I think people have watched too much tv and have some misconstrued conceptions about how the legal system works. I have become increasingly put out by some of the comments here of late. I do not direct that comment at anyone specific but just in general. There are far too many people here telling folks how bad off they are and how screwed they are going to be when it simply is not the case. This guy is a prime example of a freaking walk in the park when it comes to this case and people are still telling him he is ----ed. *PLEASE* go get yourself a lawyer and get a damn good one. You if anyone has cause for action to sue Dave, his PI's, his lawyers and anyone a good lawyer can name that has money in their pocket. This is not rocket science here. The guys name is on a list and that is it. He didn't pay for anything and he didn't sign for anything. There is absolutely zero going against this guy, ZERO! While I will continue to read and post in this area of the forums I will now refrain from posting any followups other than my original postings. Good luck to the fella in the cat birds seat.


Lager

[morgana]

Lager
I will agree that on the face this guy has a good case, but he does need a lawyer. What I did say before though still holds. He is relying on too many people to keep their mouths shut. At this stage he has not pushed DTV, into looking too deep, but since the charge for the device was put on his ex-girl friends card, that is just too easy to find her through credit card invoices. They may well question her, and she may bring in the signing person as this guys room-mate. From there they just may say no settlement, as they may have him dead to rights, or as you said, they may just let all this drop without seeking anything more about it. I some how doubt though that they will let things ride, so yes this guy needs a lawyer, and have him start to lay the game plan, instead of DTV. While to many, the events as he explained them have given them rise to say, they can not prove you paid for it or received it, and if these people could not be found that would be the case. There probably is way more to this, and it would be best if this guy spent time with a lawyer to bare the whole mess. It may bode well, or go down the tubes real fast. I just hope he posts after seeing the lawyer with the results. We can then see which way that wind then did blow.

[Lager]

Ok, I like your posts so I will reply in this instance. I also agree that a lawyer would be a good avenue here. Anyone who is actually served process needs one. In this case he could get one now and sandbag Dave. Play stupid and hope they sue him. We all need to remember that Dave is using the lowest form of lawyer there is. These guys are nothing but collection agents who passed a bar exam. They are not the kind of people willing to spend money to chase down leads for a case that might net them $3500.00 This is about quick and dirty settlements. Yes, Dave has deep pockets and going head to head with them the way TTRK or Dean have in the past is a nasty event. This letter bs is a whole other issue. Dave is not footing the bill for anything here but they are liable as the collection folks are acting as their agent in principle. These folks are not going to go through the hassle of tracking people down and having depo's with said people for the amount of money we are talking about. This case would be a godsend for a lawyer wanting to pick a fight. You could sand bag all the way without giving any information as to the defense and nail these guys hard. Without knowing they were gonna get slapped around these guys will just think slam dunk and go into court blind to the facts in *this* instance. I also agree it would be nice to hear the outcome of this one. Call me a fool if you will, but I have watched lawyers walk away from 250K+ cases saying it would cost to much to prove and collect so it wasn't worth the clients headache. Compare that with $3500.


Lager

[hognutz]

Well I think JD490 and the poet are being way to paranoid. IF DTV was as agresive as they think they are we would be in jail by now. If they had real evidence and could get warants we would be ----ed. They can't. they are fishing for money. The reason they are taking the civil avenue is cause they have no real evidence. This ---- would get tossed so fast in criminal court. In my case they have shipping ivoices only. no credit or payment info. They have notracking info to verifiy signature. So you do the math they most likely have a name and address only.

I retained an attourny for piece of mind but I don't think that your roomate or exgirlfriend will come in to play. They have your name.

I have read all the bull----. All the hype. I now have the evidence they posses. It is not credit info. Tracking info. It is basically a copy of the invoice I was mailed with the product.

[JD490]

Slimeboy,
Just spoke to my attorney, and he thinks you might have a good case, but only if you play it just right. He agreed with me that speaking to the EX and roommate about the issue would be bad. Leave them out of it unless you need to get them involved. It won't be that easy for dave to get your ex's current address just from a credit card number unless they get a court order, and they might not want to go that far. He said you need to get a good lawyer to play this out. He has already got one of his clients out of the letter problem by this method from records he obtained from fed-ex where he proved that another person signed for the device. Just curious Lager have you received a letter and what have you done with it?

[Lager]

I have yet to get mine. Working for law firms has given me the opportunity to already have a lawyer up to speed. I will get mine, wait to be served and kick it over to my laywer as he already knows what is coming in this regard. Settlement is not an option, it's a matter of principle with me.

Lager

[JD490]

I hope you win and counter sue. Who knows you might not receive a letter. I know about 5 people that should have gotten one by now from vector and whiteviper sales. For some reason it has been over looked and if they wait another 6 months it will be 3 years for 3 of them. Way over the 2 year limit.

[slimboy]

Well i hired Mr Zakarian to handle this for me. I got an e-mail today from his paralegal Andrea Thompson to discuss what they had. She didn't think that i would be able to get anything dismissed and i should settle. I was actually surprised to hear that. It seems to me that they aren't really interested in defending me. They just want to work out settlement details. They are supposed to get back to me on this and I will let everyone know how this situation turns out.

[JD490]

Ya after going the Lawyer route to settle I have discovered it isn't always the cheapest way. We have worked out the standard settlement, and the standard 3500 for 1 device. Its not done yet, but now I have spent 500 on an attorney to do nothing. You could always get the agreement from them and then send it to an attorney to review it for 100 bux. Everyone is just making a buck.

[slimboy]

I agree, I only spent the $425 because i thought i had a good chance to get a dismissal.

[letsfightback]

Slimboy,

I alo spoke with Mr. Z's paralegal, and she gave me no hope in fighting the case. She basically said that they will settle for no less than $3500 and you'd be lucky to get anything else. Does anybody else see a possibility of a scam here? If they force 200+ peolple to settle, who knows if they are getting a kick-back. Just a thought. I spoke with the attorney in Ft. Myers, Mr. P. Michael Villalobos, Esq., and he was positive on trying to defend yourself. You still might want to give him a try, he has a free consultation, and charges $400 for his fee. Good luck with your case. Keep us up to date on the progress.

[slimboy]

I kinda had the same thought. I know that would be highly illegal though. They just never even thought about trying to get a dismissal, even in this circumstance. If i had the funds to take this to court i would, just because i know i would win. I didn't buy it and i didn't receive it either. They have my shipping address and that is it. What the hell kind of evidence is that? I have to say i am disappointed so far. I would not recommend using Mr. Z if this is the best he can do even in these circumstances. I could have done a better job.

[gunsmoke2]

Why would they give you no hope in fighting the case.? I had a 3 way conference call with three lawyers today. After 4 years one lawyer said that's it. If we fill another appeal the lawyer felt he could be violating ethics on the displinary board. So I'm getting a second opinion on Monday.


I personally feel we will appeal and the lawyer who doesn't want to go ahead could be worried about his reputation. Not my problem. Already been through this with the same lawyer so we went ahead with another lawyer on a motion a couple of years ago.


I have found out that you have to be aggressive with lawyers and remember your are the client. In 4 years I haven't won anything but the case is still alive and will go into next year.


Maybe I can set a new record ;)



GS2

[freetv4mee]

Originally posted by slimboy
Well i hired Mr Zakarian to handle this for me. I got an e-mail today from his paralegal Andrea Thompson to discuss what they had. She didn't think that i would be able to get anything dismissed and i should settle. I was actually surprised to hear that. It seems to me that they aren't really interested in defending me. They just want to work out settlement details. They are supposed to get back to me on this and I will let everyone know how this situation turns out.

Slimboy,

If Mr. Z's paid paralegal gave you her professional opinion that settling is the best avenue, I'd seek new representation.
From a legal perspective, Mr. Z and his people are doing you a huge disservice by suggesting you'll not likely get anything dismissed, and should make you suspicious as to who their bedfellows truly are.

Remember, lawyers are in it for the money, and the money alone. If Dave can use his money to co-opt a few attorneys posted on these dss sites, does anyone doubt that he will? If any attorney ever advised me to settle without trying to defend me first, I'd seriously wonder what was in it for them.
Remember, if you choose to settle you must promise never to steal from dave AGAIN (implying guilt). Essentially, you must sign your name to the fact that you've already stolen from him once by way of legal paperwork whenever you settle.
So don't settle! Plain and simple.
Find an attorney you can personally meet with. Dave's allegations are weak and any good lawyer with honest motives will not tell you otherwise.

Take a small risk slimboy and dismiss most of the "questionable" advice you've received in here, while listening to Lager and TTRK.
Be very skeptical of the advice you receive in here because dave DOES INDEED exist AND post in here :K ;)







freetv4mee
---The same moles in here just love telling me my handle alone makes me guilty :gg
(Besides nothing's really free, this is a very expensive hobby, and I subscribe to boot).

[Salty Jizm]

Originally posted by freetv4mee
If any attorney ever advised me to settle without trying to defend me first, I'd seriously wonder what was in it for them.
Remember, if you choose to settle you must promise never to steal from dave AGAIN (implying guilt).



Carefull here. You don't know the other half of the story. Depending upon what the client's situation is, settling quickly MIGHT be the best answer.

Just because you don't like the message, don't shoot the messinger.

I'm all for everybody putting up a good fight. We need people that are able to hold thier own to do that. But sending a lamb into slaughter isn't the right answer. In that case, settle.

I suspect Mr. Z. did make that evaluation prior to giving advice.

[twins2]

I received my letter earlier in the week, it appears Dave is using White Viper records. Say, does Mr. Z work in Illinois? Also, I was told by a lawyer that Dave wants you to sign a plead. The lawyer said if you confess, it's possible that the government can then use that against you and press criminal charges against you. It doesn't sould like a good idea to go the easy way out and leave yourself open to be prosecuted. Oh, by the way, $500 is cheap compared to what I was quoted.