most canadians MISSING the BIG picture here!

[sugar ray]

i have done a TON of reading regarding legal status on this issue. the biggest problem is see is alot of people have NO clue what is actually being challenged this up coming spring. the biggest thing i hear is, "oh we will be safe once the ruling is in our favor!"
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! and in case i haven't said it yet WRONG!

the charter of rights is being challenged. freedom of choice in canada is being challenged. a ruling in our favor will NOT make it o.k. to pirate U.S. satellite signals. a ruling in our favor WILL make it o.k. to LEGALLY SUBSCRIBE to these SAME U.S. providers we are currently stealing from. alot lose sight of that FACT. alot are even shocked when you explain it that way, BUT "YES" this is the way it is!

refering to the grocery store story. i think most of us that read this board would NOT walk into a grocery store, shove a jug of milk under our coat, and walk out the door with it. that's stealing. NO different then us stealing those great Pay-perview movies that are rotated on a weekly basis. we are NOT paying for the service FROM the provider.

the funny thing about the entire issue? is we do NOT feel an ounce of guilt for stealing these signals!

why is that? not sure? some look at is as they shouldn't be shooting their signal on my property etc.............. just one of those question we may NOT know the answer to. like why is the sky blue?
i can give you reasons WHY we do steal the signals in canada though. a few you can answer on your own im sure. when i started playing with DTV cards there was NO-such thing as bellexpress-vu or even star choice satellite in canada. it was either cable or nothing! growing up as a die hard sports fan, watching montreal or toronto on hockey night in canada every saturday was UN-acceptable. especially when you cheered for an americain team. you would get to see your team maybe 8 times a year on cable if you were lucky!

then xmas of 1994 my father recived his 1st DTV system. $1000 bucks back then. NOT cheap compared to now hey? he was paying legit here in canada and still was NOT able to recieve ANY sports. due to the fact you needed a continious U.S. land based phone line plugged into your reciever.
after about a year, battery cards came out, then ISO's broke into the "h" cards etc..... the rest was history.

so what's my point? my point is, being in canada we wanted the CHOICE of watching what team we wanted to or what tv program we wanted to. canadian providers were NOT offering ANY choice, so we seeked it elsewhere. express-vu and star choice then launched their birds, BUT still the choice wasn't there! they have cluttered their system with canadian content. the hocky package was NOT availible until about a year after express-vu was around. and even now, if your a die hard baseball fan in the summer your S.O.L. expos and blue jays, end of story! sopranos? forget about it! these are just examples but you get the point.

if express-vu or star choice was a BETTER system then DTV or dishnetwork would we really even want to hack them? alot still would im sure BUT atleast there would be NO need for foreign dishes if canadian systems has EQUAL programming to U.S. providers. now our government is trying to take any choice away from us, well BINGO! i just think i answered my own question as to why we do NOT feel guilty when it comes to stealing these signals.
probably becuase our governmant has crammed this content down our throats sooooooooo bad. probably because our government has tried FORCING us to watch certain programming. it has yet to sink in with our government as WHY most people steal these signals to begin with.

there is a SMALL percentage that steals the signals more so for the hobby part of the game. electronics, scripting, etc........... however, most of us do it because the selection and choice is far more superior then what any canadian system is offering! i am NOT by any means suggesting that IF the ruling is handed down that canadians will be alowwed to purchase U.S. signals then pirating will stop completely! that's just un-realistsic.

BUT unrealistic is also what are government is doing right now. let's be honest. how many U.S. dish owners will open a news paper, read that article and then get spooked, run outside and rip their dish down? i have yet to hear of anyone in canada ripping their dishes down because of the ruling! people aren't backing down, so the government goes back to the FORCE aproach.

we know stealing is stealing! any and ALL of us will have to take responsibilty for our own actions.

at any rate. im done babbling. just ONE FOOLS OPINION.

we STILL have the RIGHT to our own opinion in canada!

DON'T WE?

[ekati]

I am hoping i can legally subscribe :)

[morgana]

I can agree with some of what you said but not all. The Charter Challenge will strike down that section of the law that makes it illegal for us to watch foreign encrypted signals. It does not mean DTV can then come and sell their services here in Canada. Although this could be an end result after much pussyfooting around by the governments, but for now the charter challenge will only take away the criminal offence.

Bell Expressvu, and Starchoice definitely do not want to ever have DTV licensed to bring services retial to the public, and they will lobby everyone of our MP's to make sure they keep their government granted monopoly.

I really have lost a lot of faith in our justice system and completely lost faith in our government. It is not hard to see just how a country can mass produce domestic terrorists, when all you see is the government gone amuck. We had put our faith into the justice system of the courts only to find that the ruling was more political then based in law. But even in giving the ruling the Supreme Court justices did leave the room for the Charter Challenge. This then turned the tables 180 degrees and we now have to look at whether we will risk all on the Challenge. I for one chose to close down and fight from the side lines. It was not a hard choice to make. I have other things I can do to make my living, and am pursuing them now. Others though just have too much invested in this and can not just walk away. For those I feel sorry, but I do know that they will sooner or later see the light.

The one thing I must point out to people is, this Charter issue does not stop with the ruling from this lower court. If we win in the lower court, it will be appealed and if we lose then we can appeal, but only if they is enough money and support to do so. I really do not want to stir things up but even a lower court ruling in our favour will not be the last step. It will again have to make it to the Supreme Court for its final say. That my friends is a long way off and for thiose who think we are going to receive relief soon, had better reconsider their position.

It is not hard for us who have been involved to see where there is a infringement to our rights, but for the average guy out there, all he knows is what the wave of the campagn by Bellexpressvu and others tell him. We do not have any loobbist's or news media compagns going to show our side of the issue. It looks like once again people are gettiing too complacent in their feelings to donate money. this is where we will lose the battle, if that happens. Not on the issues.

People, are just too finicky to take a stand and stick with it to it final conclusion. I guess that is part of being a Canadian, it seems we have become known for this very thing. Too bad, as it almost the equivalent to being caled wimps.

[DoctorNik]

sugar ray and morgana both make very very good points.

Many 'testers' in Canada believe that a Charter win will legitimize hacking of US signals... by striking down the RCA.. (it may, but for a short time, until it is rewritten of course),,, many do believe it should be our 'right' to hack a US signal because it is beamed on our property etc, etc, etc...

Bev et al with their propaganda, is playing this very smart,, by promoting the 'stealing' read hacking aspect,, they gain the compassion and acceptance of the general population. By throwing out non-sensicle (sic) figures of $$ lost due to 'stealing'.. the compassion grows.. McKenzie, in his rants in the newspapers etc,, doesn't mention the freedom to chose which subscription service Canadians should have,, but stresses the hacking community etc etc.. and the 'hackers' just promote it all the more. Yes, many 'testers' are surprised when the Charter Challenge is shown that it is NOT ABOUT freedom to hack,, but freedom to purchase. I've mentioned that on many forums... and most just don't get it.

I for one would love the option of subscribing legally to a US satellite company. I do believe that the competition squelching tatics by Bev et al are totally wrong.. I was once a legit subscriber, until BEV;s boys shut down my broker, and I was left high and dry..

ahhh, but I ramble... Bev knows if DTV or DISH is licenced in Canada,, their market share goes out the window, if they can exist at all...

even if licences can be obtained for such things as HBO, STARZ, etc.. what a difference that could make for Canada's satellite providers huh?? their sub rate would sky rocket... (especially if they are smart enough to offer at a decent rate)...

oh well...

[sugar ray]

DOCTORNIK & MORGANA:

excelent posts by the BOTH of you! i must say, i enjoy these legal rights forums far more then the P3 HU forums or ANY other forums on this board. for the simple fact that most that post in here, do so with a purpose.

good debate. it's a nice change from all those free-tver's posts that generally end up in flaming, arguing, and bashing the guy who posted.

"cards just went down, where is the new fix?"

"it's the end of the world! there is a hash going on!"

"what am i going to do? i can NOT function 5 minutes without my tv!"

some things are just more important then free tv. like having your right of choice stripped from by your own government. BUT MOST could care less, as long as they had that free t.v.

thanks for the reply guys, i enjoyed the reading

sugar-ray

DOLPHINS 7-4 NEXT VICTIM "BUFFALO"

[gunsmoke2]

The Radio Communication Act does not distingish between Grey or Black. Naturally I think you have a much stronger position argueing the right to receive and pay for it. But unless they change the RC Act if there is a Charter win it will apply to both.


The Supreme Court said it was illegal to decode the signal.



GS2

[newguyxxx]

Hmm...I kinda wish they would spend all this effort getting all those guns off the Toronto streets for example, instead of being puppets for Bell Expressvu. Dont know too many dealers killing folks in broad daylight :Z . I'm Sick and tired of reading Bell and associates whining in the paper about how much "millions" they lose. :R

[Bobo99]

They are not lossing a dime for me as I would never get their system...I'ld rather sub to Dish or DTV......

They claim to lose money because of the US systems...but would those people with US systems really get a Bell or Star Choice?? Some might, but I think it would be near 0.

[apn_64]

Originally posted by newguyxxx
Hmm...I kinda wish they would spend all this effort getting all those guns off the Toronto streets for example, instead of being puppets for Bell Expressvu.

But the anti-gun lobby doesn't line the liberal's pockets with significant "contributions" and organize golf games with Tiger Woods for demented has-been political leaders.

The real issue here is Canadians freedom not be be force-fed the CAN-CON approved crap doled out by the domestic broadcasters.

Bell prefers to hide behind the CRTC and SC and demand the government into acting to protect their duopolised market share. They'd make a lot more headway fighting the CRTC into allowing them to broadcast HBO and the Sports Networks that people actually want. Until they do that I'll never sub to BEV - except via AVR, if the need ever arises.

IMHO, the liberals are just a bunch of technophobic patronage-driven morons, and the PM is an utter embarrassment as a world leader, truly unfit for the world stage. Indeed the man is not even considered "a player" and is not taken seriously. The US, with which trade is the lifeblood of the Canadian economy favours relations with the UK and Mexico over Canada.

Finally, look what these idiots are doing with CDRs and other PC storage media. If it's even possible to be used in an MP3 device, it will be taxed in a similar fashion to alcohol and gasoline. So when I buy CDR/Ws for my PC and CF cards for my digital camera, some horsesh!t music company gets a piece of the pie - wtf? The indians will be smuggling CDR/W and CF memory accross the ON/QC/NY borders as well as cigarettes and booze :D and I'll be buying my stuff on business trips to the US.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Folks,

The amazing thisng is this assistant of the PM name of Ducros calls Bush a "moron" when we have the biggest MORON for a leader right at home here.

How can anyone take this drip as a leader. He cannot even get along with our biggest trade partner and friends south of the border. But he does fine with Mugabe!!

Our Military is a shambles under his mismanagement, lacks severly in money and while the men are great, the military are the laughing stock.

Well I am fed up with having a MORON for a leader and money mismanaged. The next thing you know we will have lost our friendship with the US but we need not ask why.

This -MORON has got to GO!!!

Its embarrassing to be a Canadian these days with MORONS like these in Power.

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/johnmanley.gifhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/chretiendestroys.gifhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/jean.jpghttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

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[thepoet]

Originally posted by apn_64
...the liberals are just a bunch of technophobic patronage-driven morons [emphasisi mine], and the PM is an utter embarrassment as a world leader... ...The US, with which trade is the lifeblood of the Canadian economy favours relations with the UK and Mexico over Canada.

Ahh... There is THAT word again (though used in an entirely different context in your post). Regardless which side Canadians may be on the debate over that comment by your P.M.'s spokesman about our pres-i-dent, don't count on a sympathetic read from the current U.S. administration regarding acid rain, soft lumber exports, steel exports, migration of movie production to cheaper Canadian studios and locations, and other issues Canada considers economically, ecologically, and/or socially important. The cat's out of the bag, and Mr. Bush is not known for turning the other cheek over a slight. Too late Canada may learn the cardinal rule not to piss of a guy who's already pissed off. (But, better to be pissed off than pissed on, eh?) As to our alleged preference for the U.K. and Mexico, keep in mind that the U.K. stepped up to the plate on our first go-around with Mad-Ass Hussein over a decade ago, and never stepped back. To this day British pilots still brave the hostile fire of the "no-fly" zone with U.S. pilots. (and kick Iraqi ass accordingly) As for Mexico, "placation" is the operative word since the American southwest is being inundated with "un-documented immigrants" - the fear being if the U.S. tangibly cracked down, the Mexican government would encourage even more wholesale migration of what it characterizes as its undesirables. ("Papers? I don't need no stinking papers...")

[apn_64]

To set the record straight, I'm not bashing Canada as a country, it's a great place to live. Unfortunately, there's a lot to be said about the present leadership.

As the holder of a UK passport, I don't want to be seen bashing my adopted home, but I'd like to see Canadians stand up for their rights.

I think it was Keith Spicer (fmr CRTC chairman) that reminded us that the West spent ~50yrs telling the Russians they could not block foreign broadcasts. Now it's coming full circle. How can it be perfectly OK for me to watch NBC off-air, yet illegal for me to watch the same programming delivered via satellite?

Anyone looking forward to reruns of the Beachcombers movie recently aired on CBC (Copps Broadcasting Corp)? Sadly, I missed that one ;)

[gunsmoke2]

There is THAT word again (though used in an entirely different context in your post). Regardless which side Canadians may be on the debate over that comment by your P.M.'s spokesman about our pres-i-dent, don't count on a sympathetic read from the current U.S. administration regarding acid rain, soft lumber exports, steel exports, migration of movie production to cheaper Canadian studios and locations, and other issues Canada considers economically, ecologically, and/or socially important. The cat's out of the bag, and Mr. Bush is not known for turning the other cheek over a slight



That mentality only demonstrates an attitude that most Countries don't appreciate. Who cares what cheek Bush turns. He has subbed Canadians before he became President. US citizens call Bush much worse then that in your own country. Whats the matter ? can't the US accept opinions. I hear so many opinions from Americans on Countries and leaders to last a life time. I don't have a problem with that. I don't know if that is some kind of Power threat but it seems rather silly. That's my opinion. No Hydro Electric Power for you this year. ;)




GS2

[REDx]

GS-2 you better be nice to us
here in the states. looks like
we may not just be going after
iraq we may take the saudi oil
also lol.

[gunsmoke2]

Here is an opinion from an American:


186 5:12 am PDT, Oct 22 Sylvia Greenawalt Hempstead NY US No way!! He does NOTHING for me!! -The ---- they shuffle around every 4 years-well he's the worst!!- He cheated his way in the election!! It was FIXED. He should not have won. He'a a creton moron. Doesn't care about poor people or minorities. I hate his I hope he reads this.He's a little boy behind a large desk that's too big for him to see over



And another one :



SO NOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS RESORTING TO ASSASSINATING THEIR OWN SENATORS!! STRIKE ONE FOR DEMOCRACY! ONE POINT FOR FASCISM! WAKE UP AMERICA, THEIR WILL BE MORE OF THESE "ACCIDENTAL" DEATHS OF IMPORTANT OUTSPOKEN LIBERALS, WHO ARE AGAINST THE TERRORIST WARS ORDERED BY THE TERRORIST BUSH. As Bush said himself: :"their ought to be limits to freedom" and with those chilling words, one voice of freedom was extinguished. a little boy behind a large desk that's too big for him to see over.




Freedom of Expression exists in both Countries. My Father is Canadian and my Mother is American and I like Both Countries.




GS2

[ed12]

gs2 well stated :):)

regards
ed:)

[apn_64]

It's about time...

OTTAWA (Reuters) - The top aide to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien who called President Bush (news - web sites) a "moron" resigned Tuesday, saying the controversy generated by the comment had made her position untenable.

From the same story...

According to Canadian media reports, White House officials privately refer to Chretien as "dino," short for dinosaur. The 68-year-old prime minister developed a close friendship with former U.S. President Bill Clinton and often golfed with the Democrat. By contrast, Chretien is one of the few leaders of a close U.S. ally yet to be invited to spend time at Bush's private ranch in Texas.

[gunsmoke2]

Ya that's right they don't like each other which stems from before Bush was President. Oh my called dino I am so offended :D




GS2

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

DINO!! I would think that is one of the nicest things he has ever been called.

Jean Poutine. A reporter spoofed Bush into believing that was his real name while what that really is, is a specialty dish, made in Quebec that consists of French Fries, Cheeze and gravy. And yes, it tastes as bad as it sounds.

Dubya has never liked Chretien and that may be the only thing I have in common with Bush :)http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

What I cannot believe is how he got reelected after breaking virtually all of his election promises. If this is the best we have to offer, then its a pretty sad statement of the state of affairs in Canada.

This guy puts his foot in his mouth pretty much wherever he goes. Have a look at just a few of his gaffes, it would be unbelievable for the head of a small company, never mind our Prime Minister. Take a LOOK HERE!!!

http://www.legal-rights.org/Documents/pmgaffes.html


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