continue testing after settlement?

[kludge]

Any US citizens going to continue testing after settling?
How could DTV know if you are still testing?
Do you think they will take advantage of their 9:00 to 5:00 right to look at your video equipment that was in the settlement?

[Lager]

I would seriously doubt they would take advantage of that. They simply do not have the manpower to do it. You are talking about people spread all over the place, its not like they can keep someone on hand that works a 50 mile radius or something. Once they get some jack out of you they could give a ----.


Lager

[phoztech]

i would tend to agree about the manpower thing...
however i think they say that you will agree to pay like 100k if you get caught or some ridiculous amount like that. is it worth free tv to find out ... probably not.

just switch to Dish. and at least charlie doesnt send out letters...knock on wood.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

Anyone who does that has S H I T -for -brains in my opinion. How much would it cost them, versus what they will receive back in pre-agreed done judgements, to hire 5 or 10 or 50 people to travel the US and verify that. I would think it would be far more lucerative to do that, than to do what it is they are doing now.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Bye the way if someone had mentioned that they would send these letters and get so many settling say 2 years ago, who would have believed them and not got flamed on these forums.

They have not closed shop so why would they NOT do it.

Just my humble opinion but anyone who does it is nuts. Just how bad do people want they bloody TV?
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/niceday.gif
Thanks & Good Luck ,

<a href="mailto:ttrk@legal-rights.org"><font color="#FF0000" size="5"><strong><u>To </u></strong></font><font color="#FF4800" size="5"><strong><u>Th</u></strong></font><font color="#FF6200" size="5"><strong><u>e </u></strong></font><font color="#FF7002" size="5"><strong><u>RE</u></strong></font><font color="#FF9006" size="5"><strong><u>AL </u></strong></font><font color="#FFB508" size="5"><strong><u>Ki</u></strong></font><font color="#FFD014" size="5"><strong><u>ng!!</u></strong></font></a>

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[REDx]

i would think they would at least
do a random inspection. say one in
a hundred. those who bought say over
3 of the same item would be good targets.
who ever they caught would be made examples
of. kinda like the IRS show no mercy finacally
distory them. then publicize the hell out of it.

[thepoet]

Didn't I read awhile back that Canadian civil authorities are blaming hacking equipment for emergency service RF interferrence? Whatever anyone thinks about the liklihood of that, it is a fact that all RF equipment does transmit to at least a limited extent. It might be entirely possible for a DirecTV-hired PI with the proper equipment to electroncially "snoop" suspect U.S. addresses from across the street for evidence something wasn't quite kosher, and then arrange for a formal inspection on the premises. Anyone caught red-handed would be up the creek, and DirecTV would pounce on the opportunity to trumpet their horn on national TV. Might be an interesting "test" case, eh? ;)
(For future reference, file this post under: "Some People Never Learn")

[gunsmoke2]

Didn't I read awhile back that Canadian civil authorities are blaming hacking equipment for emergency service RF interferrence? Whatever anyone thinks about the liklihood of that, it is a fact that all RF equipment does transmit to at least a limited extent



I think its very likely. It applies to an AVR used in a receiver.



GS2

[Lager]

Paying someone to go check up on people wouldn't do much besides cost them money. How many people do you think they would ever collect a judgement of 100K from? More likely than not it would be zero. Yeah, continuing probably isn't real smart but I don't see the doom and gloom if you do. Dave won't even take the time to check to see if people live where they send their letters to.


Lager

[Sniperet]

Its not the $100K judgement that should worry everyone. Its the criminal prosecution. Once you settle and then get caught again Dave is surely gonna press criminal charges. I have to agree with TTRK you got to have ---- for brains to test after getting burnt once. TV ain't worth it.

BTW the more people that post on public forums about continueing to test the more likely it is that Dave will followup. Always remember that Dave is watching!

[Randomluck]

Hey Snipe,

You said it. I wouldn't think about it. The antenna works just fine these days. The pics a bit snowy and sure not digital quality but the trouble is a whole lot less ;)

[Lager]

I guess things work much different in Cananda than they do in the states. In order for "Dave" to have anything to do with criminal proceedings they would be looking at putting up 100K CASH bond (per person) in order to get the civil warrant to make their case so they could then take it to ???? Take it to who is the big thing. Someone here recently posted about a whole crapload of cops that got busted for using hacked cards and how many of them do you think got prosecuted? Not one. I am sorry that people think this is actually something people would waste time on in the States but it just isn't the case. This is not a TV show. I have been on Dave's end of thing for other clients such as HBO, Main Event Boxing, ESPN etc etc. My company went after bar's that were showing events and were not authorized to do so. I am very familiar with the way this stuff works in that regards. Trying to get a federal prosecuter to charge a bar owner who actually charged money for people to watch a pirated singal is a sumbitch to do. More than 90% of the time they just said sorry, we don't have time for this. The other 10% you had to hold their freaking hand and do everything for them, only to have them tell you to make them a settlement offer. They don't want this kind of crap in court because it is a waste of their time. What do you think they are going to do for Joe Smoe? Folks, I never said it was the most intelligent thing in the world to continue testing if you have settled, I am just giving my views on the likelyhood anything would come of it if you did.

Lager

[REDx]

it only makes scents that they
would make some searchs just to
scare people. here in the states
people dont like being arrested.

[Lager]

I forgot about the law that says Dave can arrest people. Doh!


Lager

[REDx]

but he can swear out a warrant.
he has a signed confession.Doh!
unlike "some people" some of us
have a few American dollars.
ya know the dollars that are worth
something.

[Lager]

If I didn't already know you worked for Dave I would actually take some time to explain why your comments just do not fly. Instead I will leave it with my original post regarding this topic and trying to get a prosecuter to take the case. Lol, swearing out a warrant. Sorry, it just doesn't happen that way in the U.S. judical system.


Lager

[Endeavor]

Originally posted by Lager
If I didn't already know you worked for Dave I would actually take some time to explain why your comments just do not fly. Instead I will leave it with my original post regarding this topic and trying to get a prosecuter to take the case. Lol, swearing out a warrant. Sorry, it just doesn't happen that way in the U.S. judical system.


Lager

This has got to be the dumbest argument I have heard in a while. Lager first off Dave can go to any prosecutor in your area and tell him/her you are stealing from him. He shows the evidence why he believes this. Then the prosecutor says hey Mr. Policeman go over to Lagers house and take him to our house to spend some time there. Then the judge says well since you are such a good citizen give us $100,000.00 so we can make sure you stick around for your trial and we'll let you go home for a little while. then you go to court and spend some time in jail. What is there that makes you think that stealing TV is any different then stealing a pack of cigarettes from the local convenient store. Same result Mr. Policeman gives you fancy silver bracelets to wear. and you get to talk to a man/woman who loves to wear black robes all day. It's just that simple...

I urge all parties that have received letters and signed agreements with DTV and those that have received letters and not signed any agreement to contact this firm. It is our only hope of defeating our GOLIATH in this matter...

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[Lager]

My goodness. I cannot fathom how misunderstood the legal system is in the States for people here. By all means, you are free to think it works that way. I won't sit here and argue my real life experience with what others think happens in the real world. I made my post and stand by it.

Lager

[ELF-CO]

Originally posted by Lager
swearing out a warrant. Sorry, it just doesn't happen that way in the U.S. judical systemAnd you would be wrong. In order for law enforcement agencies to take action against anyone, they need a “complainant”. In the case of a standard law, (such as simple traffic violations for example), the “State” would be the “complainant”, and law enforcement would charge you on behalf of the “State. If you committed a “Federal” crime, (such as mail fraud for example), then once again, law enforcement would charge you on behalf of the “Federal Government”.

In the above mail fraud example… if you had committed this fraud against “Mr.X” (example), and Mr.X decided to drop a dime on you to law enforcement… then Mr.X would be the initial “complainant”. Assuming Mr.X had supporting evidence to back up his claim, law enforcement is obligated to investigate. If law enforcement felt they had a valid case against you, then THEY would be the one’s charging you with the crime… not Mr.X.Originally posted by Lager
My goodness. I cannot fathom how misunderstood the legal system is in the States for people here. By all means, you are free to think it works that way. I won't sit here and argue my real life experience with what others think happens in the real worldYour “real life experience” is lacking. I work VERY closely with law enforcement (for completely unrelated areas), and I can tell you that I routinely swear out a “complaint” that gets magically transformed into a warrant that puts plenty of cops in “arrest-mode”. So long as the complaint can be validated by supporting evidence… this is not hard to do. Anyone can do it, and DTV is no exception. If you care to disagree with what I just said, then you had better sign up for an introduction to criminal justice course. Originally posted by Lager
Paying someone to go check up on people wouldn't do much besides cost them moneyNow THAT statement is just too funny! You really can’t think of examples of this very thing with different companies, and see if those companies think it just “cost them money”?

I’ll give you a few examples to start off with:

1) The Gas or Electric Company that sends someone out to read your meter. (Or do you really think they are doing this just to “serve you better?”)
2) Auditors for the IRS or Revenue Canada. (Or do you think they are just making sure you aren’t over-paying them, heaven forbid!)
3) ATF Gaming Inspectors in Vegas and other jurisdictions. (Or do you think the State of Nevada and others should just “trust” the casinos to run fair & square?)
4) Air Marshals. (Or should we just “hope” that a similar incident won’t happen again?)
5) Customer Service Reps. that do follow-up calls. (You pick the biz)
6) Surveillance Operators. (You pick the biz)

Please notice that most of the jobs I just mentioned as examples do not directly generate any income for their employers, nor do they have much incentive to do so… and in some cases are just a costly addition to payroll, yet in all cases they are considered a vital part of their particular organization.

With regards to DTV, and their possible paying of people to go out & do inspections. Why would that not be cost effective for them? Just like video cameras in shopping malls… it’s a deterrent. Just knowing they are there reduces the likelihood of crime occurring.

If a cop pulls you over for speeding, and checks you out on the computer & sees that you have prior arrests for drugs… do you not think he will ask to search your car? Well, DTV has the rough equivalent of “hot sheet” using the names of people that settled with them previously out of court. It would only make sense for them to “flag” those people for a regular inspection. The costs are negligible when you consider that the word will get out quickly that they are doing it as they said they ‘might’, which is a deterrent they want. And as an added bonus, they may just catch people in the act, which helps offset the salaries they paid out to the inspectors when a new court case is filed. They spent millions of dollars on various security measures for their smartcard systems… what makes you think they wouldn’t spend a small portion of their revenue on a few inspectors as well?

I’m not going to commit to saying that this is what DTV WILL do… but if it was my company, they would already be on the payroll.

[morgana]

Pretty much any civilized country has basic freedoms and laws that govern them. In those freedoms usually are certain methods and rules that will govern just how its people can be charged with crimes. Without getting tied down in all the legal crap, it all comes down to evidence, of the offence. The very fact that you settled in the civil suit, does not fill the guage completely, but it does lets say give you the half way mark.

If anyone is so stupid as to test after they have settled, they then can be really taken to task both civilly and criminally. I would assume that you could never even hope for the low end of the sentences and depending on just how callous DTV can make you look, you may see sentences in the mid to max ranges.

Considering for about $2000.00 per year you can order everything including PPV and all other events legally, why would you risk ten or twenty times that, just to say you stole it?

It is time to use the old noggin here, and look at just what you really watch and figure out just what the cost would be. They usually only put 2 new PPV movies per week, and you can tape them and watch them as many times as you like. They have special events on average of one per month, and sports for all baseball, basketball, NFL,hockey come to approx $750-$800 per year. So, if you have a premium sub, and all the sports, and buy every PPV as it comes out the cost is approx $2,000 per year. If you are caught and charged civilly they will get $10,000 dollars from you, or 5 years worth of programming. If you settle they want $3,500 or abot 1.75 years.

The risks get even higher for those whose have settled and again get caught doing it as they will have to pay many times these amounts. The fact that you have been caught once should show you that you will be on a watch list and most likely will again get caught. It is sad to think that people can serve time for watching TV, but yes that can easily be the end result to anyone repeating the offences after settling. Just how much brains or lack there of is required to not see this.

To anyone who is even thinking about this route, I have no sympathy for, as you are your own worst enemy, and what ever the courts do to you is probably deserved.

[BrainDamage]

Originally posted by To The Real King!!
Hi Guys,

Anyone who does that has S H I T -for -brains in my opinion. How much would it cost them, versus what they will receive back in pre-agreed done judgements, to hire 5 or 10 or 50 people to travel the US and verify that. I would think it would be far more lucerative to do that, than to do what it is they are doing now.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Bye the way if someone had mentioned that they would send these letters and get so many settling say 2 years ago, who would have believed them and not got flamed on these forums.

They have not closed shop so why would they NOT do it.

Just my humble opinion but anyone who does it is nuts. Just how bad do people want they bloody TV?
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/niceday.gif
Thanks & Good Luck ,


I can't believe someone would even ask such a question. If you sign a legal document saying you will not do something, you had better not do it. And, if you get caught doing it, then you get everything you deserve!

By the way, are we allowed to use what could be considered poor language if we separate the letters? If S H I T is alright, can I then also use F U C _ without a problem? Just checking before I do something foolish.

Oh, TTRK, I still admire the way you tell it the way it is. Political correctness is for pansys! You are no pansy!

[Lager]

I feel like I am back in the academy and still waiting to get into the real world after reading some of this stuff :) As I stated previously, it is not the smartest thing for someone to do but in the real world the likelyhood of anything coming from it is almost nil. Take my previous comments or leave them, that's what I do with anything I read here.

Lager

[REDx]

Lager i'm sure by this time everyone
knows what that post is worth. Whooosh

[Randomluck]

Originally posted by REDx
Lager i'm sure by this time everyone
knows what that post is worth. Whooosh

Damn Daves trolls!

This one is overly stupid too.

Lager go run to big Daddy and tell him we ain't buying it.

[megados]

In my opinion, it'd be a damn stupid thing to resume, or to keep testing after settling. In the settlement, there's an agreement that you breach by doing so. If DirecTV has the moxie to send out all these letters in the first place, you can bet they're looking at those people who have already settled, to ensure their side of the agreement is kept. If they get evidence that it is not, along with past admission of piracy, that could well open you up to a knock on the door, which would give them all the evidence they wanted, and this time it's not going to be a paltry settlement, but they'll likely as not tack your a s s to the wall.

Everyone is free to make their own choices, but some are no-brainers.

Lager, you obviously don't have the best interests of our members at heart, so please . . . if you're gonna spread that, go spread it somewhere else, ok? As far as this site goes, you're not doing yourself, nor anyone else any favors.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi MegaDos,

You are 100% correct on this and Lager is doing nobody a favor by misleading our members like he is.

People can be damn sure that its going to be easy for DirecTV™ to get a search warrant once someone has made a settlement agreement, if they can gather the thinnest of evidence of any ongoing piracy. Besides after paying a goodly sum for a previous transgretion, why would you do it again and subjet yourself to possible (probable) criminal charges, search warrants and whatever else they can do.

Sorry but I cannot agree with anyone even advising members that its no big deal and Lager I recommend you stop this immediately. People can and will do what they want but they certainly do NOT come here for misinformation.

If you knew anything you would know that with a previous agreement, DirecTV™ would have no problem getting the authorities to press criminal charges in virtually any state.

Its not smart, its not acceptable and it needs to stop right now.

If anyone who settled decides to "test" again, then they deserve whatever they get. And you can be sure that the "BOOK" will be thrown at you.

Highly NOT recommendedhttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/niceday.gif
Thanks & Good Luck ,

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[Lager]

WTF people? I didn't tell anyone to keep on keeping on. I said more than once that it would be a dumb move. I then expressed my opinion on what would happen (nothing) if you did. If all you want is people who agree with your opinion on the matter then fine, I will stop visiting this forum.

Lager

[no1b4me]

Lager,
You are entitled to express your opinions here however the nature of the topic being discussed warrants careful thought of what opinions are expressed. The members of the forum may interpret your opinions as being fact and conclude it is OK to continue *testing*. I also share the same concerns expressed by MegaDos and TTRK. We should all be working with the common good of all in mind. To remotely suggest it is ok to continue testing even when you have legally agreed not to, is reckless at best. I’m nowhere near a legal expert but common sense tells me to cease and decease of any further testing after signing a settlement agreement. If anyone signed an agreement with DTV and would like to continue to enjoy their life as it is, I recommend you STOP ALL TESTING and dispose of any testing device you may still have in your possession.

Lager I’m sorry if you can’t see the woods for the forest here. The question really is what if you aren’t so lucky? It doesn’t matter if 1 million get away with it, if caught, you will be the Marty and will be made to pay big. If you have settled and don’t believe it, you may continue at your own peril but don’t cry when you meet Big Bubba.

no1b4me

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Lager,

Saying that you dont think they will do anything is tantamount to advocating that peopel do it. Some less experienced members may take that to the bank and continue to do it.

Frankly I think that you are wrong BUT I appreciate your opinion. You have stated your opinion now so there is little need to restate it unless you are touting it, which IS wrong.

So the simple answer is people signed a legal document NOT to continue testing and they will be taken apart limb from limb if they continue and get caught.

So it is EXTREMELY unwise and not at all worth the risk in any way for anyone to do this. This SITE has a position on that and it is NOT to do it. To do so is (a) against the law and (2) against an agreement that you can be sure they WILL follow up on. You are entitled to your opinion which has now been stated several times and we will not settle the facts of it here. In time we will find out what they will do but I do not want anyone thinking its OK because it is not. And they will very likely follow up on it.

We are nobodies master and people will do as they choose but this site will not be advising people to either break the law or to break a contractual agreement. So lets DROP the issuehttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Members should know however that it is our opinion that it would be extremely unwise. I am not closing the thread so if others think we are wrong they can say so but from the posts above I would say that members are wiser than to think it should be done.

Notice that Kludge started this controversy on his first post and you may want to take that into consideration too.
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Thanks & Good Luck ,

<a href="mailto:ttrk@legal-rights.org"><font color="#FF0000" size="5"><strong><u>To </u></strong></font><font color="#FF4800" size="5"><strong><u>Th</u></strong></font><font color="#FF6200" size="5"><strong><u>e </u></strong></font><font color="#FF7002" size="5"><strong><u>RE</u></strong></font><font color="#FF9006" size="5"><strong><u>AL </u></strong></font><font color="#FFB508" size="5"><strong><u>Ki</u></strong></font><font color="#FFD014" size="5"><strong><u>ng!!</u></strong></font></a>

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[iambeingsued]

This is probably my own ignorant immature brain talking, but I personally am going to rape the crap out of DAVE at this point. I would roll the dice and bet that they are not going to track me down after settling. I dont need to purchase any other hardware and I make my web site visits anonymous, and I will NEVER EVER tell anyone EVER that I have hacked satellite. No one is coming over for events, which no one ever did anyway. So unless they are going to try to take video through my window and see what I am watching, I dont see how they will have grounds to track me down.
Hell, if I pay 5000 bux, then I will try to get my couple years of programming out of it.
This might be stupid, but, ya gotta stay smart about stealing.
So i think it is really a personal preference
iambeingsued

[crownvic]

I can't believe what some of you guys are thinking to sign a settlement and carry on with this is ridiculous.
If nothing else stop it for your family,just think the heartache you'll put them through if there was criminal charges filed..
Some of you guys are the kind that will jump the fence even if there is a "Beware of Dog" sign just to see if the dog will bite.
You really can't give advise to some cuz it don't sink in,to me it just ain't worth it..
Crvic.

[ELF-CO]

Originally posted by iambeingsued
So unless they are going to try to take video through my window and see what I am watching, I dont see how they will have grounds to track me down.Assuming you settled with DTV, and signed one of their “agreements”…then it would depend on what your agreement stated. If your agreement has the clauses below:

Released Party agrees to subscribe, at the minimum level of DIRECTV‚s Total Choice plus one Channel Premium Programming (the „Minimum Required Service Level) no later than fourteen (14) days from the Date of this Agreement (the „Beginning Subscription Date), and agrees to maintain in „active status the Minimum Required Service Level for a period of twelve (12) months from the Beginning Subscription Date

AND:

Connection to Land-Based Telephone Line. For any period during which (insert name here) is using Satellite Programming, whether authorized or unauthorized, Released Party will keep all receivers used by Released Party to receive Satellite programming connected to a land-based telephone line at all times after the Date of this Agreement. In the event that DIRECTV discovers information indicating that equipment used by (insert name here) to obtain satellite programming is not connected to a land-based phone line, in addition to DIRECTV’s rights or remedies otherwise available, Released Party agrees to make their access cards, televisions, video cassette recorders, receivers, satellite dishes, cable lines, telephone lines or other components of its system used to receive Satellite Programming available to any DIRECTV representative between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m

Then they will already know where you are located for those 12 months, and are allowed to gain entry into your home during that duration, at a minimum. It would not be terribly difficult for them to do a follow-up surprise visit to you to verify all your equipment is in compliance with their terms of the agreement you signed.

I would strongly advise you re-think the further hacking of them. Especially since they took the time to file a $50K lawsuit against you. (Mentioned in a previous post by you) I seriously doubt they will just forget about you anytime soon. You are certainly one of the top names of a pretty short list. (They haven’t sued that many for amounts over $10K)
Dunno about you, but I would rather not have to go to jail just to get some free T.V.

[iambeingsued]

Well, I wouldnt say that because my summons was 50k means anything as far as too how far up on the food chain I am for these jerk off's. The only reason they came up with 50k is, an attorney hired an attorney that specilizes in telecommunication law. So this guy knows how to rack up the "charges" to equal 50k.
In the summons, there is a 10k charge with the stipulation that I have helped other people steal the signal. That is completley off the wall. After my attorney talked to him, now we are back to the original negotiating fees of 4500 bux. I doubt that one end user is being watched more than another...If they recover 2k to 5k from every "tester" they have more than recovered there losses over the past few years. Too me, its the rush of the chase.
iambeingsued
I will be waiting for the knock on the door, and so will my ole' family red pitbull.



Get the pit bull ready because if your $50. K is accurate that's enough to identify you by and so they already know who you are.

In fact if they have read this (and probably have) they have enough for a search warrant based on "probable Cause" right now, just by what you have posted. They showed up at court hearings in my case with several posts I made and some that I didn't so watch out. Let us know if they come see ya :)

To The REAL king!!

[megados]

You do have the right to do as you please, and if that's your choice, then so be it.

The Pirates Den, however, advises against doing so. Unlike some of the sites, which I'll not go into, we do try to keep our membership's best interests at heart, both in terms of technical information, and more importantly, the legal issues facing the community. Many people read these forums, and seeing posts relating to testing even after they've signed agreements, and settled with DirecTV, can lead to problems for them. Newbies who haven't been around these forums for long do need to hear both sides. We don't advocate doing something that could be detrimental to people's well-being.

Now in my own personal view, I really can't see anything that compelling, that I'd put my whole family's well being at risk. If it were me, I'd go find something else to do.

[crownvic]

Originally posted by megados

Now in my own personal view, I really can't see anything that compelling, that I'd put my whole family's well being at risk. If it were me, I'd go find something else to do.
Well said Megados...

[BrainDamage]

Is there a way for me to swap nicks with Lager? I could use the beer, and I think he... well, you know what I mean.

Like I said before, you must be REALLY BrainDamage to keep on doing something after signing a contract saying you won't.

Plain and simple, cut and dry, black and white, no gray area.

[Fuzzball]

Originally posted by ELF-CO
Assuming you settled with DTV, and signed one of their “agreements”…then it would depend on what your agreement stated. If your agreement has the clauses below:

Connection to Land-Based Telephone Line. For any period during which (insert name here) is using Satellite Programming, whether authorized or unauthorized, Released Party will keep all receivers used by Released Party to receive Satellite programming connected to a land-based telephone line at all times after the Date of this Agreement. [/B]

This bit of "Satellite Programming" needs to be changed to DirecTv specifically. Is DTV going to be the watchdog of all Sat providers?

The clause of requiring a sub to settle is bogus and surely unenforcable. If anyone has that in their proposed agreement, cross it out and send it back to DTV. Let them explain why they what you as an accused pirate to be a valued customer.

[ELF-CO]

Originally posted by Fuzzball
This bit of "Satellite Programming" needs to be changed to DirecTv specifically. Is DTV going to be the watchdog of all Sat providers?That was put there because they automatically assume that the accused is going to simply switch over to hacking their competitor’s signal. (And they would be correct in most cases) Not all agreements are identical, but every one I have seen have at least one or both of these clauses.The clause of requiring a sub to settle is bogus and surely unenforcable. If anyone has that in their proposed agreement, cross it out and send it back to DTV. Let them explain why they what you as an accused pirate to be a valued customer.Huh? Who said DTV can ”enforce” anything!? That is what a court of law is for. The entire idea behind this agreement is to avoid going to court in the first place. If you sign it, you are agreeing to the terms set forth within the agreement. Breach them, and you face going to court in spite of already paying a settlement, and risk possible jail time as well. If that clause IS in your agreement, and you fail to comply… it is a breach of the terms. Simple as that. It is certainly within your rights to “negotiate” what is stated within your agreement (via your lawyer hopefully), but aside from that, once the agreement is signed… you are agreeing to the terms set within. I recommend everyone abide by those terms completely.

[CARTERJ]

Like my ole pappy used to say: "If you're stuck in a hole son...Stop digging is number one."

There must be more than 50 ways to leave this lover. Do it.

[thepoet]

Your ol' pappy was a very wise man. Don't tell anyone else this (It's a secret!), but I'd bet Larry Rissler is just drooling over the prospect of one of his contract P.I.s getting the goods on a signee pirating after the fact. Bet there's even a prison cell reserved... (Sure as shootin', some idiot will surely test his agreement and then howl fowl when his life turns upside down. Ask me if I give a damn. :D

[ShaqAttaq]

the default settlement agreement has evolved quite a bit from the original versions posted at legal-rights. my agreement had no sub provisions, and a few other changes too. such as the lack of a land-based telephone line provision.

i'm within my rights to continue to read about this hobby, but the penalties should i breach the contract are such that it would be stupid to ever test.

[Salty Jizm]

Originally posted by ShaqAttaq

i'm within my rights to continue to read about this hobby, but the penalties should i breach the contract are such that it would be stupid to ever test.

Hee Hee... And if this is true, I'm sure you can cheer for the Good Guys when the P4 gets opened up! :)

[JD490]

If you don't want the sub they just tack on 500 bux if you want the sub they take 500 off. Let say you had to pay 3500 with no sub with a sub it would be 3000. They don't care either way. If they find you purchased a emulator or programmer after the date of the contract. They would probabaly again send a letter to you explaining you breached there contract and now they will want more money out of you. No FBI or Police are going to come knocking. Just the purchase of a programmer or emulator is not enough on its own to get a conviction. What they probably will do ask for 5000 to settling again, or more. If you refuse they would sue for sure it would be much easier to win breach of contract then win the first case they had against you. Anyone thinking you wont get caught were probabaly thinking nothing would happen when your orderd a whiteviper programmer and emulator combo back in 2000. I wouldn't make the same mistake 2 times. I never cared about TV that much anyway.