Satellite Radio Signals for Autombile; how's this going to work?

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

I'm sure by now, most are quite aware about this "new" concept of automobiles being equipped with stereo [most likely, DD sound] radios that receives Satellite signals, for uniterrupted music from any station; even, in the desert.
I wonder "how's" that kind of licencing going to work? Anyone know what the legal issues would be pertaining to the users?

[cansatfan]

Well, for a while you'll be able to subscribe to service by using a US address or by activating through one of many Canadian companies. Then local radiio will complain that they're losing customers and some people will get raided. A BCE company will launch a lame version of the technology. The Courts will rule that Canadians are entitled to recieve the broadcasts. Then the CTRC and Sheila Copps will get involved and the Supreme Court will say that it's illegal to recieve these signals and then there will be a Charter challenge.....Sort of like the satellite business has been the last 5 years.....That'd be my guess...

[Jeet]

XM Satellite Radio and Sirius are illegal in Canada. As per section 9.1(c) it is illegal to decode an encrypted signal unless you have permission to decode that signal from an authorized provider.

[Endeavor]

I would assume it would fall under the exact same category as DSS. Being that it is an encrypted satellite broadcast.

I urge all parties that have received letters and signed agreements with DTV and those that have received letters and not signed any agreement to contact this firm. It is our only hope of defeating our GOLIATH in this matter...

Support our legal rights!!!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/classaction.gif (http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/classaction.html)

Support The Canadian Charter Challenge By donating to legal-rights.org!!!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)

Directions for adding your own Class Action tagline graphic are here... (http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=141208)

[gunsmoke2]

That's right so if you are driving from the US to Canada when you hit the Canadian border then you should throw out your radio because its illegal ;) how stupid does that sound.


But there is a grey market with no interference because it only becomes illegal when a Canadian company launches one like BullExpressVu in 1997.


None of this is about the law its about political catering.



GS2

[DoctorNik]

and just think,,,
when Canadian sat radio does launch,, for a low monthly fee,, Canadians will have their choice of 50 (fifty) CBC radio feeds...
ahhhhh... the joy!!!!

[ed12]

or for free
because we are better hacker's :):)

some one go she-lay's-any-1..u know the rest..

regards

ed:gg

[Endeavor]

Gunsmoke you brought up a good point. Now if it legal for an American citizen to subscribe to the XFM radio. Would it be like a radar detector here in the states. Example if your driving through West Virginia a radar detector is legal but if you cross over to Virginia it becomes illegal. Now how would that work for someone's car. could you get in trouble driving into Cananda being an American citizen and listening to your American comedy channel on your legal (in the US) XFM radio??? Something to think about huh.

I urge all parties that have received letters and signed agreements with DTV and those that have received letters and not signed any agreement to contact this firm. It is our only hope of defeating our GOLIATH in this matter...

Support our legal rights!!!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/classaction.gif (http://www.legal-rights.org/DTV/classaction.html)

Support The Canadian Charter Challenge By donating to legal-rights.org!!!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)

Directions for adding your own Class Action tagline graphic are here... (http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=141208)

[Jeet]

Originally posted by DoctorNik
and just think,,,
when Canadian sat radio does launch,, for a low monthly fee,, Canadians will have their choice of 50 (fifty) CBC radio feeds...
ahhhhh... the joy!!!!

I don't think there will ever be a sat radio in Canada because the market is too small. Remember there are approx. 30 million in Canada compared to 300 million in the U.S.. Heck, California alone has approx. 30 million people.

[gunsmoke2]

Gunsmoke you brought up a good point. Now if it legal for an American citizen to subscribe to the XFM radio. Would it be like a radar detector here in the states. Example if your driving through West Virginia a radar detector is legal but if you cross over to Virginia it becomes illegal. Now how would that work for someone's car. could you get in trouble driving into Cananda being an American citizen and listening to your American comedy channel on your legal (in the US) XFM radio??? Something to think about huh.



While your in the US you are subject to US law but when you enter Canada you are subject to Canadian law.


But right now they don't care legal or not until because its not competion just C-Band which they ignored during raids. Before someone answers the C-Band can be used for FTA the RCMP returned chipped vc boards to a dealer 3 days after he was raided.


GS2

[RiseStar]

Considering that XM and Sirius are barely staying afloat with 250 million potential customers, I think we shall not see a Cdn version anytime soon if ever.

[blub5555]

My question is: Can I pick up the sat. radio signal (XM or Sirius) on the island of Newfie, N.E.Canada from the Satellite that's transmitting the programming. Maybe some trucker hauling goods or frequent traveller that has one installed can help answer that question. Will look for some positive answer if it's possible. Thanks to all for your efforts and this forum. blub5555

[RiseStar]

blub5555,

Yes, you should be able to pick it up ok, they are using 2 very powerful satellites and the footprint extends over halfway into canada.

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

As of Friday's launch of the 2004 Chrysler Pacifica, in Windsor's MiniVan Plant a.k.a. Plant #3 [Retired from there June,1992]. These "Satellite Signal receiving" radios are being installed. I've got a son who started at Chrysler's, in '93. Took over the "old" man's spot! - eh! [he! he!]. And, I talked to him this Sunday morning; and, he's to understand that the future Canadian owners of the Pacifica will have to pay a "licensee" fee.
As I suggested to my son; after talking to TTRK [Saturday]; that this too, will be another DSS-type legal battle.
I still beleive it's a "grey area issue" regarding "freely" released signals, being a purchase item and OUR Charter of Rights and Freedom of Choices being violated.
"Don't give up the Faith! We must remain UNITED! And, we will overcome. - eh!"

[P.S.- I'm inclined to see this "new intro" as a POSITIVE action, in our favour. There's a "HECK OF ALOT" BIG BUCK Companies investing into this "new" deal and I do not believe "Dave; nor, BEV [and, associates]" will find it to be a "cheap" argument like they think it's been with us!]

Again, this is my "two cents" worth.

[blub5555]

Good info. CC; I will get one, and I'm sure a lot of my friends, as soon as I get verification that we can get the SAT. SIGNAL at our location on the island. I'm watching and listening. I'm tuned in to THIS station (Ha! Ha! Ha!) blub5555!

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

For anyone that wants to check out "Satellite receiving radios". Visit an automobile dealer, like your local Chrysler's, they should have their "Chrysler Pacifica Demo", soon. Or, other dealers?.... GMC; FORD; etc.; and, enquire about these radios being factory-installed and availability of signal area [foot-print]; and, requirements for usage, in Canada.
"It never hurts to ask! - eh!"

That's my plan this week; and, I'll definitely report here.

[blub5555]

Thanks CC. Oh, by the way. I do get SAMPLES on my PC. Is this allowed in Canada? You know, when you really think about it, I can't even phanthom this ridiculous senerio and circus. What has " the LOVE of money" really done to this country and to the average 'everyday workin' person' who works for an everyday livin' to enjoy what he would like to spend it on for the very few short years that we are here as citizens. We ought to be able to buy what we CHOOSE, and not what someones idea of Politics dictates. Make no wonder we see what's going on for those that refuse to be "dictated to", as if we lived in Saddams World. Have a nice day and, if you can catch Ronnie Milsap's Concert on #103, watch the interview, as he is so excited on how Technology has changed the music and what we can enjoy at this time in history, going from AM to FM and NOW XXXMMMM. He's a blind musician who has made an accomplishment of success in his own life and a support to others. Let's just get on with what life is all about beside " the Love of Money, which is the Root of All evil" and enjoy what we can while we're here. If a person so chooses to not do as others, in this country as far as I know, he doesn't have to. BUT DO NOT HINDER SOMEONE ELSES PROGRESS IN LIFE. When I went to academic school, the motto was "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER". I've never forgotten that to this day. That's how we become good and successful citizens of a community/country in contributing and passing it on to our children etc. I felt I had to vent a little because we do think for ourselves and choose for ourselves. It's so sad when the so-called leaders of a country don't think so. COULD THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN IT??? It's really Ridiculous. Again, have a nice day; and keep the highway of FREE Information open for all citizens of any country. Regards, blub5555

[jheron]

DoctorNik...ROFLAO...I almost pissed myself!! :)

[woody2069]

btw the xm radios are easily hacked using technology in the dss world... inside a xm radio there is a tsop just like in an echostar reciever.. if you were to have a subscribed radio you could take the tsop out, place it into an echostar reciver and read the tsop would the jtag reader, save the image and then clone blank tsops for use in other radios.

[Clarkey]

So let's say I'm a Canadian who's subscribing to one of these services via the standard US mailbox method, and the signal quality/range is not an issue anywhere in Canada.

How would I possibly get caught? Can you look at a vehicle and say right away whether or not it is using this type of technology, based on some physical evidence?

Will this mean a separate RCMP van driving around the neighborhood, looking inside of people's cars for XM tuners?

;)

[junglemike]

i dont think it will ever come to that , satillite radio is only $10 a month and no PPV's to order ,so hacking them will not be profitable

in the dss world i dont think hacking would of been a problem either, cept people advertised an sold there services , combined with dtv bringing all the attention to it=DTV out of biz unless they got the feds on their side to help


JM

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

"This is the kind of issue that should been added to our "CHALLENGE"; and, I hope it doesn't fall through some "Court-Room" CRACKS!!!" - eh!
'Cause, where do these two issues differ? That is, except for the "one" produces movies."
My nurse is here, time for my shots!

[Jeet]

Originally posted by 1 CRAZY CANUCK
"This is the kind of issue that should been added to our "CHALLENGE"; and, I hope it doesn't fall through some "Court-Room" CRACKS!!!" - eh!
'Cause, where do these two issues differ? That is, except for the "one" produces movies."
My nurse is here, time for my shots!

I agree exactly, refer to my posts in this thread
http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=137458

[1 CRAZY CANUCK]

I thought you'd might find this interesting! Any opinions are welcome...
Thanks for your input! - eh!
Satellite Radio Frequently Asked Questions

Version: 1.0
Revised: 04/15/2000

" What is Satellite Radio? "

" Satellite Radio or Digital Audio Radio Service (DARS) is a subscriber based radio service that is broadcast directly from satellites. Subscribers will be able to receive up to 100 radio channels featuring Compact Disk digital quality music, news, weather, sports, talk radio and other entertainment channels.

In 1992, the FCC allocated a portion of the "S" band for nationwide radio broadcast in the United States of satellite based Digital Audio Radio Service (DARS). In 1997, the FCC awarded 8-year radio broadcast licenses to two companies, Sirius Satellite Radio former (CD Radio) and XM Satellite Radio (former American Mobile Radio). Both companies have been working aggressively to be prepared to offer their radio services to the public by the end of 2000. It is expected that automotive radios would be the largest application of Satellite Radio.


How much does it cost?

To receive Satellite Radio broadcasts, you must subscribe with either Sirius Satellite Radio or XM Satellite Radio. Subscription costs are expected to run $9.95 per month.

Users will also have to purchase a radio receiver or an adapter for an existing radio that is capable of receiving the Sirius or XM satellite broadcast.


When will it be available?

Satellite Radio is expected to be generally available at the beginning of 2001 from both Sirius Satellite Radio and XM Satellite Radio.

Both companies have been building their broadcast studios and establishing programming and radio manufacturing arrangements. During 2000, satellite launches and communication networks are being built and tested.

Sirius Satellite Radio announced in April 2000, that Sirius-1, the first of it's three satellites is scheduled to be shipped to its launch site May 31st and launched June 28th. Sirius-2 is scheduled for launch in September and Sirius-3 in October.



Where can I sign-up for programming and purchase radios?

You will be able to subscribe through thousands of different national, regional and local retail stores, over the Internet, and through automobile dealers.

You will be able to buy satellite capable radios at thousands of consumer electronics, auto accessory and other retail stores, on the Internet, and at automobile dealerships across the U.S. These radios will be manufactured by the leading names in consumer electronics.


What Programming will be available?

Sirius Satellite Radio and XM Satellite Radio each have their own programming line-up. Programming will be available 24 hours per day, seven days a week and will feature a combination of music, news, talk, sports, entertainment, and children's programming.

For the latest information see the Sirius and XM web sites.

Sirius has announced they will carry 50 channels of CD-quality music in a variety of formats and 50 channels of third-party news, sports, and talk-radio programs. Some Sirius channels include:

National Public Radio
Bloomberg News Radio
Sports Byline USA
SpeedVision
OutdoorLife
C-SPAN Radio
Music Channels organized by:
Latin
Rock
Jazz
Hits
R&B
Eclectica
Rhythmic
Country
Classical
XM has announced they will carry:

Black Entertainment Television
5 music channels by the Hispanic Broadcasting Corporation
Bloomberg News Radio
C-SPAN Radio
CNN/fn
CNN/Sports Illustrated
CNN en Espanol
The Weather Channel
One-on-one Sports
AsiaOne
Salem Communications
USA Today
BBC World Service
PBS's News Hour with Jim Lehrer
Johnathan Schwartz

How does it Work?

Programming will be originated and managed in the broadcast studio's of Sirius and XM. Programming will be transmitted to multiple high-powered satellites positioned in orbits above the U.S. The signal will then be broadcast from the satellites directly to satellite radio capable receivers across the United States.

XM will utilize two high-power HS 702 satellites built by Hughes Space & Communications Inc. The XM satellites will be positioned in geostationary orbits at 85 degrees West Longitude and 115 degrees West Longitude to deliver clear contiguous transmission across the continental U.S

Sirirus will utilize three satellites in inclined elliptical orbits rather than geostationary orbits over the equator. The elliptical orbit places the satellite about 16 hours a day north of the equator with two satellites over the U.S. at all times. The elliptical orbits enable the satellites to broadcast from a higher angle than geostationary satellites.

For reception in urban areas, where satellite reception may be obstructed, both Sirius and XM will use terrestrial repeaters to ensure continuous reception.


Can I use my current car radio?

Your existing AM/FM car radio will not be able to receive satellite radio broadcasts. Two options are available.

Replacement of your radio with a 3-band capable receiver (AM, FM, Sirius or XM Satellite). Radios can be purchased as a dealer option or can be directly purchased at consumer retail stores, mail order and Internet stores. All major manufactures are prepared to provide radios capable of satellite radio reception.

A second option is the purchase an adaptor for existing AM/FM radios. The adaptor will contain the satellite receiver, along with display and control functions.


Can I use the same Satellite receiver to receive either XM or Sirius Programming?

At this time, unfortunately no. Sirius and XM have developed slightly different technologies which means that you can purchase a radio capable of receiving satellite broadcasts from one company or the other, but not both.

Both Sirius and XM have announced an agreement to develop a unified standard for satellite radios. This "second generation" satellite radio will allow a single radio to receive broadcasts from either company. Availability of radios conforming to this new standard has not be made available."

[newmex]

The canadian law about choosing what you can get is really nonsense, i can´t imagine, its ridiculous!
offends the racional ones,
is a fault of freedom,
is worst than the Great Wall or the berlin Wall,
so unglobal!
Don´t you guys vote, ??

[Jeet]

The way I view the law I have no problem with it. If someone wants to broadcast and sell a service then let them get licensed.

If they can not get licensed, then fine. Have them stop beaming the signal into the country. The arguement is not that Directv should be allowed to sell their service here in Canada, that is not the arguement of the charter challenge. Rather, that prohibiting us from decoding foreign encrypted signals violates the charter. But don't try to protect a service (which many of us would consider lame anyways) by curtailing the freedoms of Canadians. If you don't believe me, then how come no stink was ever made about stopping people from watching C-Band in the 80s and early 90s, why did this all come to a head when Bell Expressvu came on the scene?

[blub5555]

Does anyone have a copy of the XM or Sirius Satellite Radio FOOTPRINT coverage as pertaining to Canada? Thanking in advance for any replys.

[blub5555]

CC: Try and bump this UTD. Need info on Sat. Radio FOOTPRINT where it covers N.E. Canada. See last post for reference. Thanks.

[amex97]

Originally posted by blub5555
CC: Try and bump this UTD. Need info on Sat. Radio FOOTPRINT where it covers N.E. Canada. See last post for reference. Thanks.

Sirius covers all of Canada, probably right up to the north pole ! XM central eastern footprint might cause problems say in Gander. I think it works pretty much anywhere south of that...