Bootloader uses? [Archive] - Lounge0101 Discussion Forum

newideas

March 3rd, 2003, 10:29 PM

I've been reading another thread and it syas a bootloader
has only one purpose in life: BS H cards. My question is:
is this an intergrated feature of every 3 in 1, or a separate
physical device. I am asking for my Godson's lawyer? Thanks.

No in this meaning they mean a DEAD PROCESSOR BOOT BOARD, nothing to do with an unlooper. This is a device whose purpose is to allow any Siemens SLE44 device whose 'write once' bytes have been changed to function and start up noprmally. It decrypts NOTHING. It will then allow that card to start up normally. It works on ANY SIEMENS SLE 44 card of which the H-card is just one example among MANY.

On top of this the booatloader device (DPBB) also DOES NOT decrypt anything so in the strictest way does NOT qualify under the DMCA. This needs to be explained to the lawyer handling the case since many believe what you say above which is incorrect. It does not DECRYPT anything that allows a H-Card to bypass the protection. If you THINK it does then install one and insert your subscribed card and it still will not play TV. You need activation or 3M program to be programmed onto the card.

All the DPBB does is allow a device (SLE44) that has had any of the WRITE ONCE bytes changed (by lightning or any way) to start up. Read the DMCA and you will see that this device does not qualify and that any reasonable Smart card EXPERT (like a university smart card prof) will study it and tell you exactly what it does and the lawyer upon hearing this and reading the DMCA will realize that this device does NOT qualify as the called for device in the DMCA.

Will a court accept that. Only if you bring in a qualified expert or if you quote one in your lawyers letter of reply to their letter. Anything can happen when you get into a court so you need EXPERT testimony to this fact. An EXPERT MUST be believed by the court and its not optional for the judge to believe him.

Regards

To The Real King!!

Rydman313

March 3rd, 2003, 11:17 PM

As far as I know the ability of a "3 in 1" to function as a 'boot-reader' is integrated into the unit, and is not a separate piece of hardware.......

newideas

March 3rd, 2003, 11:27 PM

I guess my question was a bit imprecise: "3 in 1"?
Does that mean "programmer-bootloader-unlooper"?
I read where bootloader is a caddy of sorts to
sandwich a card into the slot?

Rydman313

March 4th, 2003, 02:54 AM

I believe that you are basically correct on the 3 in 1 being an unlooper, bootloader/programmer, and loader all in one unit, but I'm not absolutely positive on the terminology.......
The bootloader was created to bypass the 'damaged' portion of the H card after the Black Sunday ECM, allowing the card to function normally. It was possible to insert a damaged card into the bootloader, then install the bootloader in the cardslot of a satellite receiver to view the satellite feed, without using any other hardware components. The receiver would function normally.
That was a bootloader's only purpose for existing, which could be very difficult to defend should you receive 'the letter'.......

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.....:Z

FullSlab

March 4th, 2003, 07:46 PM

It looks like most people on this site are throwing the owners of the bootloaders to the wolfs. You may have bought a bootloader to try and fix a damaged smartcard that you
might use to turn your CP on and off.
And there are many others things you can think of that a smartcard can do.
You have to decide what you are going to do. Stand and fight or fold!

FullSlab

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GhostDog

March 4th, 2003, 11:51 PM

try this link:

http://www.sdlogic.us/pcscprod_sdlogic_sdext.asp

fancy name and description for what is essentially a bootloader...

Rydman313

March 5th, 2003, 01:52 AM

Looks more like an emulator interface board to me.......
There's no mention of any components aside from the board and interface cable, specifically the Atmel required by every bootloader I've ever seen.........

DrSagan101

March 5th, 2003, 03:54 AM

Geez, $25 for a board and a ribbon cable? WOW!

newideas

March 5th, 2003, 02:22 PM

OK, a 3-in-one plus an emulator board can be a
bootloader, but what part of the unlooper
makes the bootloading possible? The Atmel chip?
Does that mean that a flash makes an unlooper
into a bootloader? Is it hardware of software?

What you are describing is a different thing and it is software that allows a bootstrap to load on a card where there are or have been troubles with the ATR. Its a different kettle of fish from what he means.

This board is more correctly called a DEAD PROCESSOR BOOT BOARD because it does allow a boot section to load and cause the card to function. But it will do that on any Siemens SLE 44 based card or which there are many on the market. But it does not fit on the DMCA anyhow i my opinion since it does not decrypt anything.

So if you have ANY Seimens SLE44 based card and one of the WRITE ONCE BYTES gets written over, this will allow it to work. Technically it should to beeach the DMCA no matter what card it is used on because it does not decrypt any protection part at all.

But who knows what a court will accept if it does NOT come from a court qualified expert. So you need a University smart card prof or other expert to prove this in court. No big deal at all.

Regards

To The Real King!!

Slam_mm

March 5th, 2003, 02:29 PM

I don't claim expertise here but I recall to use a 3-in-1 on black Sunday H cards (which is what you used a bootloader for) you needed to flash it (software) with a special flash (wildthing for BS H cards) and set the 3-in-1 (hardware) dipswitches too. So, I think it was both hardware and software. I'm sure there are members here who can be very specific. A regular unlooper could not function as a BS H reader by just flashing. You had to break off a pin on the atmel to make that happen. So, it could be argued that the 3-in-1 hardware was built with BS H reading as a feature.

huseless

March 5th, 2003, 05:19 PM

Expertise isnt needed, dtv's main claim is that you bought something from a site that caters to pirates, thus whatever you bought was specifically intended for signal piracy.
They give you an opportunity to claim otherwise ( not that they really care what your story is, they have already identified you as guilty) , then they ask for the money anyway, knowing full well that it will cost you more than they are asking you for to defend against them. If they think you have any valid chance they will drag it out as expensive as possible before dropping it.
They arent doing this for the money, since dealers have much deeper pockets, they are just abusing as many people as they can to get the word out that piracy is bad. The music and movie companies are too fragmented to do this or else the issue would already have been decided.

Rydman313

March 6th, 2003, 12:34 AM

I agree, it's all about money.:mad:

The theory that DirecTV and their lackeys are somehow performing a sort of public service announcement denouncing signal piracy as bad, while interesting, in my opinion, is misguided. DirecTV may claim to be against piracy in their press releases to the public, but considering how lucrative the letter campaign has become, you can bet they're looking at piracy in a different light internally........

LOL, now I can't get the image of that teacher from South Park out of my head..."Now, signal piracy is bad, mmkay?" :gg

Slam_mm

March 6th, 2003, 09:15 AM

My belief is it's all about shareholder and potential merger suitor perception. If dave can show he's got pirates on the run, though intimidation (the letters) and fear (criminal prosecutions and civil suit news spread to the testing community through forums) the stock will get a higher price. I guess you could say it's all about the money, just not the settlement money. Most of the income from settlements will go to the law firms representing dave. What's left is just gravy.

To The Real King!!

March 7th, 2003, 08:20 PM

Hi Guys,

Here is a post by one of our Admins here (no1b4me) that fully and properly explains what a bootloader (DPBB) does, how it does it for any sle44 based Siemens card thus providing the info needed for a proper defence of this device under the DCMA. Notice that it does not encrypt, decrypt or in any way manipulate the code on a card this failing to meet the requirement to do so under the DMCA.

This card is still very valid for use on any Siemens SLE44 smart card for many purposes out there and is not even useful for the currently used satellite cards. But the DPBB still works fine.

See a good lawyer who understands technical issues and you will see that a good defence can be made around this info if you purchased a DPBB or Bootloader.

The boot-loader by no1b4me

The so-called boot-loader was originally brought into this hobby with what I believe would be the correct name for it: DPBB an acronym for ‘Dead Processor Boot Board’. The term ‘boot-loader board’ is misleading as it implies that the device actually is able to load code or program the card and that is not the case at all. This device is not specific to DTV or NDS it could potentially be used in the DTV system and probably has been. However, the use of such a device does not promote, enhance, enable or aid a smart card of the SLE44 variety, including DTV’s H/P2, to violate the access right system implemented by the DTV/NDS system to control copyrighted material. Further more, the development of such a device does not require access to the NDS/DTV copyrighted code present in the H/P2 card. In fact, if we want to get really technical the code the device (DPBB) affects is not owned by NDS/DTV. Siemens probably licenses it to NDS as it does to other licensed users of SLE44 technology. The CMS/RMS located in the card’s ROM is the manufacture’s testing and low level programming API for the card’s added features such as the EEPROM module. The startup code for most, if not all, of the SLE44 cards is basically the same up to the point where the DPBB (electrical specification test device for SLE44 compatible smart cards) engages reliability and functionality tests of the SLE44 micro.

The DPBB and its associated micro (AT90S2313) were designed to accomplish one distinct task only:

to ensure that the lockout feature developed by Siemens in their CMS/RMS system is fully operational.

Getting back to the legal stuff…
How can DTV honestly claim the sole purpose of this device is to intercept (steal) their signal? How is it possible that a person that purchased a DPBB is charged under 18 USC 2510, 2511 or 47 USC 605? That’s outrageous and frivolous. They would have a better argument under 17 USC 1201 albeit a very weak one.

The DPBB can not intercept any communication and it is not even 'affixed' to a device that is capable of doing so (the card). The DPBB is designed in such a way that the DATA stream from the IRD to the card is NOT intercepted, manipulated, interpreted or altered in any fashion. The only connections to the IRD and the cad are VCC, GND and CLK. The I/O data line is routed DIRECTLY from the IRD to the card.

In my opinion title 17 sections 2510 and 2511 are not applicable to the DPBB. Title 47 section 605 in my opinion is also irrelevant, since the DPBB device is not capable of altering, modifying, enhancing, disabling, preventing or circumventing a technological measure for the purpose of controlling access to communications (or copyrighted works in the case of 17 USC 1201) thus, there can not be any unauthorized use of communications (or copyrighted works). The device after completing its functional test will enter a loop waiting for a reset to take place and no further interaction or communication with the card or the IRD is performed by the DPBB until a reset is encountered at which time the functional test is again performed. Finally, the DPBB is incapable of re-programming the card, loading code on the card or altering the card’s EEPROM in any way. The EEPROM module on the H/P2 card holds customers authorization data and past PPV purchase history. The DPBB is not even capable of such minor EEPROM modification as erasing or modifying customer data on the EEPROM. So then, if the DPBB (bootloader) can not do anything then what is it that it does? It tests the stability of the card by reducing the card’s VCC from 5 to about 2.5VDC for 108.5 nano-seconds. WOW pretty impressive satellite signal interceptor uh?

From this point, armed with the needed info to correctly describe what it does, its up to you and your lawyer to present in a way to make for a good defence.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
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Thanks & Good Luck ,

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Rydman313

March 7th, 2003, 08:35 PM

Wow. I stand corrected. Thank you, TTRK, for setting me straight, I appreciate it.

no1b4me

March 7th, 2003, 09:09 PM

TTRK, thanks for reposting that. I forgot I ever made that post :). I guess I've made some posts I don't remember. I must do a seach of all my post now :D :D :D

To The Real King!!

March 7th, 2003, 10:07 PM

Hi no1b4me,

I copied off that post as soon as I had read it because I know it would become valuable relating to how bootstraps (DPBB) work The trouble is I forgot to note who made the post. So I knew it was an Admin, thought it was you but was not sure. As a result I credited an Admin but not specifically you.

Sorry about that but at least now I am sure.

This explanation is the clearest most edifying description I have ever seen on the DPBB so I wanted it saved for the people who need to know how it worked.

I essentially knew what it did and how it did it but certainly not in a clear technical way like this.

Many thanks for all the help this should be to those with a letter pertaining to this product. I believe in general that people do not know what it does technically, just that it brings a sle44 based device back to life. But in this case it is the HOW it does it that is important since it does NOT help decrypt anything at all. That's rather important given what people are accused of doing since it works with ANY sle44 card that Siemens made.http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif
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Thanks & Good Luck ,

<a href="mailto:ttrk@legal-rights.org">To The REAL King!!</a>

Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth!
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/satelliterights.gif
<a href="http://www.legal-rights.org/dtv/classaction.html" target=blank> <img src="http://www.legal-rights.org/images/classaction.gif"></a>

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/freedomblack.gif
Now open with lots of useful resources at your disposal AT:
http://www.legal-rights.org

Please REMEMBER OUR WAR HERO’S (http://www.legal-rights.org/remembrance.html) <-- Click here Please!

Please DONATE for the SUPREME COURT CONSTITUTIONAL BATTLE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html) <-- Click here Please!

Por favor dona para la BATALLA EN LA SUPREMA CORTE (CONSTITUTIONAL) (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)<-- Haz Click aqui!

smurray

March 8th, 2003, 03:45 PM

ok guys, this is what i know. havnt posted in a while but ive been busy reading. my bootloader serves a good purpose. you ever notice how hot the hu card is in the reciever? and we know heat will wear down an access card over time. i put my legal sub yes, my legal sub in the loader and it works flawlessly. my main goal is to reduce heat. it does this. my hu card is now running luke warm and i feel that it will live longer and may actually absorb a surge or lightning hit. dont really know about the lightning but ive had a few surges and it never missed a lick. so i say the bootloader is a form of protection from abnormal electrical generated heat. if i take my unit to court its going to be hard for a jury to side with dtv when my legal sub card will work in the courtroom. hope this doesnt happen, but im prepared. you know,everybody is not guilty as dtv would like to make a jury think.

inDSS

March 8th, 2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by newideas
I guess my question was a bit imprecise: "3 in 1"?
Does that mean "programmer-bootloader-unlooper"?
I read where bootloader is a caddy of sorts to
sandwich a card into the slot?

a 3-1 is NOT a bootloader like is described quite nicely in the rest of this thread, it merely has the ability to LOAD a damaged smart card. your understanding of a bootloader is correct. so the specific defense of the bootloader described above does NOT apply to a 3-1, tho a similar case could be made.

but adding bootloader to it's list of accomplishments sure makes the loader sound more impressive, eh?

-iD