New Cmd !

[cleancards]

Yes Iraq has been hit !

Damn I feel better..........

[mdriksna]

why does that make you feel better. do you like death.

[hitme101]

Here We Go!!!:R

[cleancards]

mdriksna
I will humor you, yes, I like the death of certain evil dictators.

And please feel free to move this thread to the B.S. section I should have posted this there.

[Bone Daddy]

I sure do like death....I did cartwheels whan I heard the news..

[cardkiller]

Yep! Death, destruction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PRAISE ALA now bitc?.




Sorry?

[BrainDamage]

Originally posted by mdriksna
why does that make you feel better. do you like death.

Ain't nothin' finer, than the taste of death, especially when it is the death of people who cause more deaths than you will ever be able to imagine.

If someone were threatening to murder you and your family, would you want that person dead?

I thought so.

[mdriksna]

the sanctions we have imposed on there country have caused more death in years the this war will. And it isn't only adults but childern. what if it was are childern dying from this because that can't get no food supplies or meds from sancations imposed by the U.S. because I'm sure it's the kids fault they have a bad president. I know why don't we just drop a big nuke on them and kill them all would that be enough death for you all.


Also if this is true "Ain't nothin' finer, than the taste of death, especially when it is the death of people who cause more deaths than you will ever be able to imagine". So because we live in the U.S. and are sanctions are killing them all even there children. should are people die to. That's not for me to decide that's in gods hands. And like the pope said in his latter to Bush about two weeks ago "If you go to War you go without GOD".

[mouse01]

the sanctions we have imposed on there country have caused more death in years the this war will. And it isn't only adults but childern. what if it was are childern dying from this because that can't get no food supplies or meds from sancations imposed by the U.S. because I'm sure it's the kids fault they have a bad president. I know why don't we just drop a big nuke on them and kill them all would that be enough death for you all.

Our sanctions are not killing people. If we do not send food or meds to them we are not killing them. If we chose not to GIVE them anything we are not killing them. They can grow food there if they were hungry. Saddam is not going hungry. He spends thousands of dollors a day on himself while all of his people starve and die. They have enough money to spend some of it on food for their citizens and for research to develop medicines. They definately have enough money to build weapons. Nobody was picking on Iraq but he still insisted on building more weapons. We don't have to GIVE any country anything. He brought this upon himself. It is not our problem they chose to live in a freakin DESERT!!!!!! If they want a better life for themselves and their kids they can move.....oh wait Saddam won't let them!!!!

[nascarfan38]

Wow, I thought there was a food for oil program with the UN(!!) sanctions. I wonder why there isn't food and meds for the Iraqi children? Oh wait! I forgot! Iraq has been taking the money for food and buying weapons from France and Russia. Oh, ok. So the Americans are really bad people to force Saddam to do that. Oh, he's just protecting his children from harm? I guess that's why he's re-locating his military among civilians including children!
This is a totally useless debate and not very brilliant either!

[Bone Daddy]

That is a load of crap, we dropped shipments of food and medical supplies to them during the gulf war, I know I helped load them...And there is a very nice oil for medical supplies/food program...His own troops under his orders intercepted those drops and hid them from his own people...I get so sick of this pathetic old line about our sanctions....Shoot he had enough money to start weapons programs...Sheesh use your heads people.If he can find a guy to sell him weapons ,don't you think he could get pizza delivered too?:R

[mdriksna]

well then it's all clear now lets go in a liberate that country just like others god knows thats are job to go in a liberate countries. where good to bringing the fight and liberate other countries. But the fact is how many times has the war been brought to us. once pearl harbor.

[mdriksna]

and I'm just going to say one more thing and drop this because to debate this is pointless because if you support this fine that's your right and if you don't that's your right as well. God only knows how are oil got under their sand. So as my last word on this is

BUSH pull out like your daddy should of. and I don't mean the war.

[mentalmidget]

Wow, I thought there was a food for oil program with the UN(!!) sanctions. I wonder why there isn't food and meds for the Iraqi children? Oh wait! I forgot! Iraq has been taking the money for food and buying weapons from France and Russia. Oh, ok. So the Americans are really bad people to force Saddam to do that. Oh, he's just protecting his children from harm? I guess that's why he's re-locating his military among civilians including children!
Food for oil program has been going on for how long???This is a totally useless debate and not very brilliant either!
When people are too young or too stubborn that is when it is useless. Remember when you wanted to get married right out of high school and everyone said to wait and you said,"But I love her,Dude". Now your ready to hit her with cup o' noodles she made you for dinner after a hard days work.:gg

[mouse01]

God only knows how are oil got under their sand.
So does just about everyone else in the world who attended school and didn't fall asleep in science class.

Remember when you wanted to get married right out of high school and everyone said to wait and you said,"But I love her,Dude". Now your ready to hit her with cup o' noodles she made you for dinner after a hard days work.
I swear it was an accident. Honest! Quit spying on me;)

[cleancards]

mdriksna
You have your opinion and I have mine, you will see the world over will be praising BUSH ! ( Best damn President since IKE )

[Bone Daddy]

Well to have a opinion you must base it on facts...An assumption is what you have if you WAG(wild a$$ guess)There are tree-huggers that only see a small dim view of their perfect world..No matter what proof you show them they will never understand...We're fighting to protect them too...:R

[BrainDamage]

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
Well to have a opinion you must base it on facts...An assumption is what you have if you WAG(wild a$$ guess)There are tree-huggers that only see a small dim view of their perfect world..No matter what proof you show them they will never understand...We're fighting to protect them too...:R

Sometimes I wonder why we bother, BGB.

[NotHome]

Originally posted by mdriksna
well then it's all clear now lets go in a liberate that country just like others god knows thats are job to go in a liberate countries. where good to bringing the fight and liberate other countries. But the fact is how many times has the war been brought to us. once pearl harbor.

Yes, war has been brought to our soil again. We are not going in to liberate Iraq, the liberation is a means to an end. We need to remove the weapons that Sadam has first, then create a true stability in the region. A stability based on economic growth, not military might. That stability can only be brought about in a free society.

Will civilians die in this war? YES
Will children die in this war? YES
Will the US make every effort to reduce the civilian deaths? YES, to the point where we will loose more soldiers than needed to do the job.

Will Sadam kill more of his civilians than we do? YES - remember, all that anti-aircraft fire has to come down. If it's fired in a city, it's coming down on someone's head.

The only way we will kill more civilians than Sadam is in the event Sadam uses an NBC type attack. Then I hope Bush steps up to the plate and drops a fat boy on Bagdad.

NotHome
BTW: English does not seem to be your first language. If you are in the US and English is not you first language, then you are probably our guest. If you feel the policies of this country are too much for you to deal with, there is always your beloved mothercountry. But then again, if the motherland was so great, why do people kill each other to come here and complain.

[WYATT]

Originally posted by mdriksna

BUSH pull out like your daddy should of. and I don't mean the war. [/B]


I thought the Pope was against planned parenthood.

[Leafs_Watcher]

I believe that Iraq is a rich country lots of cash and gold , as evident in Saddam`s videos of his Palaces. We western`ers do not hate the Muslim people or its faith but when a person rules the country with an iron fist like he does and is more concerned with developing weapons of mass destruction than giving food and health care to his starving people there`s something wrong. Its sorry to see whats happening over ther but it needs to happen so the peoples suffering can end.

[ozzy67]

How long has this country waited for a President that has enough resolve to live by his word???
I cant rememeber an American President in my lifetime(Im 36) that has had the guts to do this the way George W. has.
This man, in my opinion, truly prays for Guidance each and every morning to the Creator that meant for all of us to live in freedom.


"Any leader that believes that God has a role in the security of his people realizes that opposition to these views are imminent."

[ebayfan]

Just another case of the USA being the worlds police force.


A whole country should not have to pay the price for one ass-hole. The USA should have exciled Saddam back in 1991 instead of giving him conditional power. The whole thing is a joke and should not be happening. How would you feel if a country like Russia or China decided they had enough of your president so let's get rid of him. It would be a completely different situation. If it wasn't for oil and the USA wanting control of it this so called war would not be taking place. Making people suffer even more then they all ready are is not the answer especially when they are not the enemy nor do they have the means to be. The USA should be far more concerned with countries
like North Korea and China and making peace with them instead of pushing the "little people" around.

[nascarfan38]

Remember....if we had a president that China or Russia didn't like...and we didn't either...we'd get rid of him ourselves at the ballot box! Don't think that's gonna happen in Iraq, do you?
BTW, I really don't think it's a matter of not liking him. It's the poison he spreads around the globe with harboring, comforting and supplying the enemies of the U.S. and Israel. I, for one, do not want another 9-11 happening here. Like the country song says, "You got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything."

[mentalmidget]

The USA should have exciled Saddam back in 1991 instead of giving him conditional power. You can blame the UN for that.


SAN FRANCISCO-- A man protesting the U.S. war on Iraq fell to his death from San Francisco's famed Golden Gate Bridge on Wednesday as he was hanging a banner off it, officials said.

"He appears to have been hanging a banner of some kind," said California Highway Patrol officer Timothy Willock. "We're not sure if he decided to jump or slipped while he was, you know, hanging the banner. That's unclear right now."

Anti-war sentiment is strong in the San Francisco Bay Area but the death of the man in his 30s was the first related to the latest protests over the U.S.-led war against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

[cleancards]

ebayfan
Yes America is the wolds police as it is a financial caregiver along with food and many other services America provides for the world.
So ya, what goes around comes around.

President Bush is a GREAT President and carries one great set of balls unlike the men these days that act like B@tches........

[ebayfan]

Basically your hero, I mean president is cleaning up after his father
who had the opportunity to take care of it back then, sure you can blame the UN but I'm sure they could have pushed the issue for a new government and it would have been dealt with along time ago. The country is still recovering from the last war only to be turned back to rubble once again.

Oh and by the way cleancards, is easy to have a big set off balls sitting behind a desk or a computer for that matter.

[mentalmidget]

sure you can blame the UN but I'm sure they could have pushed the issue for a new government and it would have been dealt with along time ago.
What do you think weare doing NOW. We tried playing by the rule and it took over a decade and still nothing. And PEOPLE are still pissed.

Oh and by the way cleancards, is easy to have a big set off balls sitting behind a desk or a computer for that matter.

I hope you are just pokin at the prez.;) I still think he is an dumb$h!t.

[conexn]

Well, everybody has there own idea's on what we should do. I for one support our troops. More and more Nations are getting on board and are finaly seeing what we are trying to do and are suppling support. The few that are still against us are the ones making money selling that A-Hole weapons and I think we should address that next.

Another good thing about this is, it is keeping the FBI on to other things and leaving DAVE on his own for a little while. I am sure there are still agents working on the problem but it is taken some of the pressure off for now.

HuWu

[mentalmidget]

Another good thing about this is, it is keeping the FBI on to other things and leaving DAVE on his own for a little while.

:cool: thanx conexn I think we all need a little "funny" now and then.:gg

[cleancards]

ebayfan
If you didn't know that the U.N. was the reason the job wasn't finished in 1991 then I can't help you.

As far as sitting behind a desk or computer, it does take a large set, as the end result winds up on the President.

President Bush has made tough decisions which no other democratic President has come close to. He does what he says and says what he does.

Basically, F@ck with the U.S.A or our allies and reap the FUN !

[PackerBacker]

You know what??? I actually deeply was concerned about the Iraqi's fate, but after seeing our boys wearing gasmasks because of chemical weapons (which Kennedy says thy dont have) I say F^ckem, if 2000:1 kill ratio Iraqi:American I say that is too few. Screw these ball-less POS. If these were americans being ruled like this we wouldnt stand for it!!!! Sorry My 2 cents. ¨e

[mdriksna]

If you ask me bush is a retard have you heard some of the crap that comes out of his mouth. here is a few good ones.

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."


"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century


"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy -- but that could change."


We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."


Well that should be enough but there a tons more this guy is a retard. Are fearless commander and chief.

[koop11]

Originally posted by NotHome
Yes, war has been brought to our soil again. We are not going in to liberate Iraq, the liberation is a means to an end. We need to remove the weapons that Sadam has first, then create a true stability in the region. A stability based on economic growth, not military might. That stability can only be brought about in a free society.

Will civilians die in this war? YES
Will children die in this war? YES
Will the US make every effort to reduce the civilian deaths? YES, to the point where we will loose more soldiers than needed to do the job.

Will Sadam kill more of his civilians than we do? YES - remember, all that anti-aircraft fire has to come down. If it's fired in a city, it's coming down on someone's head.

The only way we will kill more civilians than Sadam is in the event Sadam uses an NBC type attack. Then I hope Bush steps up to the plate and drops a fat boy on Bagdad.

NotHome
BTW: English does not seem to be your first language. If you are in the US and English is not you first language, then you are probably our guest. If you feel the policies of this country are too much for you to deal with, there is always your beloved mothercountry. But then again, if the motherland was so great, why do people kill each other to come here and complain.

Everyone Has the right to express their opinion, That's the point of a free world. But your last statement about English not being your first language would imply that you are a guest of the country and you can always leave. One way or another you are all immigrants from other countries unless you are first nations. And your statement implies that if english is not you mother tongue then you have less of a right than someone whose mother tongue is english to express you opinion. Tolerance is what USA, Canada and Briton are founded on and comments such as yours destroy the whole validity of the rest of your views or statement.

[Bone Daddy]

Hate to tell you but america was founded on intolerence...Folks were forced out of England for practicing their religion..And what this has to do with this thread I don't know...

[koop11]

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
Hate to tell you but america was founded on intolerence...Folks were forced out of England for practicing their religion..And what this has to do with this thread I don't know...

So what are you trying to say that this is an intolerent country? You own statement doesn't make sence, yousay they where forced out of England because of intolerence. They came to the new world and setup another intolerent country? Funny how people defend racial comments. then talk about a free and just America???

And what it has to do with the thread is someone brought it into the thread, by make the comment that people of a different race should not be able to express a view....

[Bone Daddy]

Hey Koop just stating the facts, I wasn't supporting any idealistic views...Please make sure you know what you are talking about before you quote bull as fact...And this is not a slam just some reason to a thread that is rapidly going downhill

[phoztech]

what i find interesting is that this forum has gone politically bonkers in the last few days... (yes i have participated)

everyone try and keep it openminded and civil. basically discuss but dont fight.

[koop11]

Kind of funny though isn't it you go after the post were a comment is made about everyone has the right to express an opinion rather than the post that is no more than a shot at others who may not be the right race?

History is a tool that we should learn from. But it tends to be that we only remember things that may benefit us.

I may have miss worded what I meant to say, should have been PRIDE themselve on Tolerence. But do you see a quote in my post?

ps This is not a shot at you, but more of an observation

[Bone Daddy]

As long as the observation is based in fact I don't have a problem..Many times people warp facts to suit their goals..I don't take anything personal and I'm sorry if my comments led anyone to believe I was upset...I'm not ...Keep it civil and I look forward to the other replys..

[koop11]

I too admit that I could worded my comments better. And am sorry for that and also if anyone took offense to anything I posted, they were observations in general not meant at anyone. No harm no foul, in the end it's just a discussion.

[cleancards]

Ya guys, no offense.

They are just opinons and everyone has them.

Smoke a fattie..........

[max1mike]

Originally posted by mdriksna
But the fact is how many times has the war been brought to us. once pearl harbor.

twice.

sept. 11.

[bigpopa323]

How many innocent fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers and children were killed by the hands of terrorism and people who support it. This war is not about profits from oil. It is about a threat to the american people. That is exactly what the Iraqi leadership is. Do you think that they are stockpiling the weapons of mass destruction for protection? No, they have intent on using them against anyone they feel the need to.

Yes, innocent people die. That is the cost that we must live with, during times of war. But how many innocent americans live does it take for this war to be supported? Do we need more 9-11's, to validate this war? I for one say that was enough and this proud american feels that we are doing the right thing and supports his president and county 100%..........

just my $0.02.
Popa

[Farmer Dawn]

here's something to think about!!!!


I am a small and precious child, my dads been sent to fight.
The only place I'll see his face, is in my dreams at night.
He'll be gone too many days for my young mind to keep track.
I may be sad, but I am proud. My daddy's got your back.

I am a caring mother. My son has gone to war.
My mind is filled with worries that I have never known before.
Everyday I try to keep my thoughts from turning black.
I may be scared, but I am proud. My son has got your back.

I am a strong and loving wife, with a husband soon to go.
There are times I'm terrified in a way most never really know.
I bite my lip, and force a smile as I watch my husband pack.
My heart may break, but I am proud. My husband's got your back.

I am a Marine. Serving Proudly, standing straight and tall.
I fight for freedom, yours and mine, by answering this call.
I do my job while knowing, the thanks it sometimes lacks.
Say a prayer that I'll come home. It's me who's got your back

[ebayfan]

Originally posted by bigpopa323
How many innocent fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers and children were killed by the hands of terrorism and people who support it. This war is not about profits from oil. It is about a threat to the american people. That is exactly what the Iraqi leadership is. Do you think that they are stockpiling the weapons of mass destruction for protection? No, they have intent on using them against anyone they feel the need to.

Yes, innocent people die. That is the cost that we must live with, during times of war. But how many innocent americans live does it take for this war to be supported? Do we need more 9-11's, to validate this war? I for one say that was enough and this proud american feels that we are doing the right thing and supports his president and county 100%..........

just my $0.02.
Popa


The war is about power and control and thank god my country for once would not back it, that is saying something. Not to mention whenever
we do offer support we usually end up paying for it by trigger happy friendly fire. Do the math way way more people suffer and die at the hands of economic sanctions then any terrorist act. So once this is all over and Bin Laden is nowhere to be found who will be the next excuse to go to war with?

[cleancards]

ebayfan
To answer your question.........

Korea, Syria, Iran just to name a few..............

[49erMan]

Originally posted by ebayfan
The war is about power and control and thank god my country for once would not back it, that is saying something. Not to mention whenever
we do offer support we usually end up paying for it by trigger happy friendly fire. Do the math way way more people suffer and die at the hands of economic sanctions then any terrorist act. So once this is all over and Bin Laden is nowhere to be found who will be the next excuse to go to war with?

If on 9-11 Montreal was struck, would the US back Canada? You bet your A$$. Canada would have a little different attitude regarding this. I guess Canada's gov just wants to sit and wait for poison gas to affect them directly.

[quaddawg]

I am not bashing GW or the "war" but is/was there a connection between 911 and what we are doing in Iraq right now?? You people post stuff that you have no information on, not a damn clue...

God be with our boys in Iraq..... DO YOUR JOB, THEN, COME HOME SAFELY!!!

[quaddawg]

Originally posted by mdriksna

Well that should be enough but there a tons more this guy is a retard. Are fearless commander and chief.


Are feerless commander and chief? ARE?? ARE???


how out OUR..........

pot calling kettle black me thinks.....

[phoztech]

Originally posted by quaddawg
I am not bashing GW or the "war" but is/was there a connection between 911 and what we are doing in Iraq right now?? You people post stuff that you have no information on, not a damn clue...

God be with our boys in Iraq..... DO YOUR JOB, THEN, COME HOME SAFELY!!!

i will agree with your statement...
the supposed evidence joining iraq and al queda is pretty thin... this is not to say that a connection does not exist , i just dont know.... i think that the way politics are played that they are using 911 to gain further support for a war... this war has merits of its own, like saddam is crazy, saddam has not followed the rules of the previous surrender saddam supporing other terrorist groups , suppression of the iraqi people... USA financial gain etc...

[49erMan]

I wasn't saying he was responsible ( although many believe he helped finance Osama) Bush is clearly preventing a future terrorist attack. Sadaam has killed thousands of his own people & broke the terms of surrender of 1991..What more reason do you people want? This guy is EVIL. Remember how long Hitler went about his business before the world was willing to stop him?

[gandalf_thegrey]

That's right, Put aside 9-11, and put aside supporting other terrorists.
Saddam has failed to comply with the UN santions posed on him years aga. But the UN will not force his hand. They will let the US do it.
And speaking of who started this war. Maybe if France wouldn't have been so addament on vetoing the military action, then Saddam would have realized his only choice is to abide by the rules.
Noone needs to be reminded just how evil this man is and what he does to his own people.
If other countries are to afraid to stand up for innocent people being opressed then the US will do it for them.
Just my 3 cents worth.

[NotHome]

Originally posted by koop11
Everyone Has the right to express their opinion, That's the point of a free world. But your last statement about English not being your first language would imply that you are a guest of the country and you can always leave. One way or another you are all immigrants from other countries unless you are first nations. And your statement implies that if english is not you mother tongue then you have less of a right than someone whose mother tongue is english to express you opinion. Tolerance is what USA, Canada and Briton are founded on and comments such as yours destroy the whole validity of the rest of your views or statement.

You missed my point in that statement.

My point was simply, if the US is so bad then why do you stay? The answer need not be stated. I am not a xenophobe, quite the opposite actually. My wife is an immigrant (now a citizen). A large portion of my family/friends are immigrants and the only ones who complain about the US are those who have chosen to not learn the language or otherwise fit in.

Too many come to this country and fail to become 'American'. They want to live here and enjoy our riches but complain about everything they do not like. They want to have social health care, good roads and schools, a strong police force and all this with low taxes. They feel we should bend over backwards with multilingual classes and signage. Try to go to an ATM with out having to pick your language. In the past, immigrants to the US took pride in learning to speak English and fitting into our culture. The "melting pot" is failing to melt and has become a cauldron of different peoples fighting for their own small group above all else.

You will note that I DID NOT comment on the quality of the poster's language. I only commented on the obvious, that English seemed to be a second language. I will not comment on someones use of a second language, as it is rude and offensive. I may crack a joke if an error produces a hilarious result, but would never do so if I thought it would hurt someone. I deal with many different nationalities on a daily basis and it is sometimes hard to keep patience and work through the language barrier. I just think of how I feel trying to speak with my in-laws, to whom English is a second language.

Free speech is everyones right even if I do not agree with them. I also reserve my right to speak my mind on the issue also.

NotHome

[mentalmidget]

Free speech is everyones right even if I do not agree with them. I also reserve my right to speak my mind on the issue also. NOTHOME for prez in 2004

[dssdog]

This article (http://www.americanpolitics.com/20030320Bisbort.html) expresses my feelings more eloquently then I could ever hope to.:(

[gandalf_thegrey]

Yeah and he cowrote California beaches 3. MAybe he can go hug a tree in Iraq for a while.
:)

[cleancards]

LOL !

[dssdog]

We sure are hurting saddam (http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-22-26.htm) aren't we?:confused:

[gandalf_thegrey]

Is that a pic of someone that told Saddam to go to hell?
I can't read the headline but I am sure there are much worse pics available of the suffering and killing that Saddam has done.

And It;s not just about getting at Saddam, its about liberating the people. Talk to someone who has been there and seen the lifestyle first hand.

[dssdog]

:(

[gandalf_thegrey]

Too bad more people don't feel that way.
:D :D

[cleancards]

The Americans that have the privlage of being at home with their families while our American soilders are fighting for us is a privlage that we should all be thankful for and doing our part at home to reassure them and let them know we appreciate them.

Next time you see a corner filled with war protesters, pull your car over and woop some comunist ass !

[quaddawg]

Originally posted by 49erMan
I wasn't saying he was responsible ( although many believe he helped finance Osama) Bush is clearly preventing a future terrorist attack. Sadaam has killed thousands of his own people & broke the terms of surrender of 1991..What more reason do you people want? This guy is EVIL. Remember how long Hitler went about his business before the world was willing to stop him?


I am not saying we should or shouldn't be there kicking his butt, I was just mentioning that the connection between Saddam and 911 could very well be nonexistant.. I am NOT saying he doesn't need his a$$ fragged..... just to clarify

[ozzy67]

Churchill exposed Hitler.
George Bush exposed Sadaam Hussien.
GEORGE W. WILL ANNIHLATE SADAAM HUSSIEN!!!
WHOOAAH!!!

[ebayfan]

Originally posted by cleancards
Next time you see a corner filled with war protesters, pull your car over and woop some comunist ass !


So what people that don't support the war are communists and should get there ass kicked?
Your a moron, it's people like you who's only thoughts are of violence
and let's kick some ass mentality that make America look bad. If your so fuc*ing gung ho why isn't your ass over there fighting?
Read the rules!!!!Keep it civil...

[phoztech]

dssdog... you are entitled to your opinion... however both of those link that you provided are pointless....

1. that rant... its an opinion from a guy that makes no sense.. he only says that if the pope is against it then it must be wrong ... i cant recall the last time the pope was for any war... geez. he talks about truths and facts and yet never mentions anything except opinion.

2. that link to al-jazeer.net... can you get a more unreliable and biased news source? come on the damn network is run by saddam. those pictures could have been taken anytime...dont even try and mention that "oh there is a date at the top" ... hell.. its november 12th 1901.. look i put a date on this statement thus its true?... also whose to say that saddam did not kill those people or force them to be human shields... I will also cover the fact that they might be innocent victims of this war(this is actually very likely)... war is not peaceful war is cruel and it sucks, but this is not to say that sometimes it is not neccassary. have you gone and looked at photos and pictures of some of the saddistic ---- that saddam has done to people?

i am sorry if this comes off as bashing but when it comes to these things i like irrivocable facts...
i dont even like things like foxnews being the only one so far to report a huge chemical plant has been found... i hope that they are right but i am going to wait for confirmation from other news agencies.

everyone is entitled to their opinion ... I just dont like it when people try and state it like fact(not just you dssdog)...

sidenote it is my opinion that saddam had little or nothing to do with 9-11... it is also my opinion that he is a maddman and that he needs to be dealt with.... it is also my opinion that people should at least give bush credit for making a decision ..any decision instead of dancing around the issue like so many other political figures who dont want to piss off any one group for fear of losing in the next election... cheers to you Bush for having the guts to call the ball, i might even vote for you in the next election for just having balls.

[gandalf_thegrey]

And let's not forget this quote from that link. Can any of this be confirmed or has this guy ever heard of Slander?


You are still the little impetuous and impulsive frat boy, still that D Student from the Skull and Bones Club, still the family Black Sheep, still the shakedown artist and flim-flam man, still the coke hound and party animal, let loose on the ultimate dance floor: worldwide Armageddon, at least as your feeble brain understands these theological matters.

[phoztech]

Originally posted by ebayfan
So what people that don't support the war are communists and should get there ass kicked?
Your a moron, it's people like you who's only thoughts are of violence
and let's kick some ass mentality that make America look bad. If your so fuc*ing gung ho why isn't your ass over there fighting? Your probably some retarded dude behind a computer that can't even buy a clue.

i agree with you ebayfan .. those people do not need to be hurt...educated maybe .. and have the guts to hold a rally where it will not cause disruption to everyone else... course that wont happen cause then they would not get on tv and that is all they want in the first place... meanwhile them being on tv helps saddma troops moral.

look at the people that are having rallies for the war.. are they causing headaches for the other citizens and police.. no they are holding there rallies in places that are designed for such or they are at least not being disruptive and causing near riots and fights in the streets all in the name of peace where the police have to come out and make sure peace is kept when they could be looking for the guys that broke into my neighbors house... i find it interesting that alot of the organizers of these peace rallies are anarchist and such ..people that believe there should be no government... ya good luck with all that.. if there was no government then hell i could come put my Sig p220 45 caliber stainless steel pistola to their domes and pull the trigger with no threat of being arrested.. would i do this of course not but there are some crazy people out there... a country without laws would be chaos and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head up their ass and in a dream world.. "oh everyone loves each other,, no we will all work together.." what kind of utopian BS is that.. would that be great ya sure it would be wonderful .. would it ever happn? hell no... that has about as much chance of happeneing as saddam being a good christian conservative and standing beside GW in the next election...

[phoztech]

further rant...

it is always popular to be the underdog and support the underdog... "oh the cruel cruel USA government, they are just a bunch of bullies".. gimme a break. people that say that need to really get their facts straight and stop living in a dream world... does the US government do some sneky underhanded things .. sure they do. do they also d alot of good things like aiding other starving countries hell yes.

people act like it is so wrong for a countries government to do what is in the best interest of their citizens .. what the hell is wrong with that? every country does it its just when the USA does it people say we are bullies.. even when what we are doing is the right thing to do. sometimes kids dont know what is actually good for them.

[gandalf_thegrey]

Phoztech,
Don't forget that the US doesn't just do this for best interest of their citizens but to help out strangers who are less fortunate than we are.
A majority of our wars were to help out other countries who needed our help.

[phoztech]

Originally posted by gandalf_thegrey
Phoztech,
Don't forget that the US doesn't just do this for best interest of their citizens but to help out strangers who are less fortunate than we are.
A majority of our wars were to help out other countries who needed our help.

gandalf that is true... but for the sake of this argument self preservation and advancement is reason enough. helping others is a bonus. one thing that i have learned that goes along with this is that a country gets richer by helping other countries and by working with other countries.. if we help other countries get wealthy then we are sleves will get wealthy.. if we leave other countries alone o fend for themselves tehn they will never help us and we will never have trade agreements that benifit not just us but them as well...

in this global economy it comes down to you are only as strong as your weakest link... granted i want the USA to be the biggest and strongest link... just as i am sure that a frenchman wants france to be the biggest and strongest.

[gandalf_thegrey]

^^^^^^^^^^
You hit the nail on the head there.
AMEN!!!!

[cleancards]

ebayfan now you went and got personal !
I'll bet you're one of those little wimps on some street corner shouting out anti American slogans, well you make me sick and should probally have your damn teeth knocked down the back of your throat !

Also, you want to meet up with me, Keep it civil...Bones

(edited due to the graffic nature of what pain I'd like to inflict on shebayfan)

If you live in the United States support our troops or get the HELL OUT !

[ebayfan]

Sure buddy that's me, get real. Just because I don't agree with reasoning behind this war does't mean I'm going to stand on the streetcorner and preach or protest about it. I have the right to voice my opinion
just the same as you do but you don't here me telling people they should go beat up protesters because they don't support the war. You are obviously an angry person who's only thoughts are of violence towards others. And on another note I'm not in your country but in my country people go to jail for threatening or enticing people to commit violent acts. And just as I do not support the war neither does my country, not this time. I don't have any hatred like you do
and do hope for the best for all people involved beit in the USA or Iraq, may god be with all of them.

[cleancards]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I think we have both stated ours !

[Farmer Dawn]

War and Honor:
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decay and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who had nothing for which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

[Bone Daddy]

ebayfan your comments have made me sick...I was over there in Desert Shield/Storm..And I'm still in the reserve..One more personal attack like that and you'll be in the reading club for sure...This thread is on the edge folks...Keep it civil...

[dssdog]

Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have one!:)
Relax guys, just the fact that we are arguing demonstrates the fact that we are thinking. That can't be a bad thing!;)

[quaddawg]

Originally posted by dssdog

Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have one!:)
Relax guys, just the fact that we are arguing demonstrates the fact that we are thinking. That can't be a bad thing!;)

It also demonstrates the we are a free country, and our troops are over there right now, losing thier lives and limbs in order to guarantee someone elses freedom, BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE OURS..

and to the ones that are complaining....

You can bitch and complain ONLY because our boys are there to fight for our right to do so. This fight may not be about our freedom, but in principal it is. I don't like war either. But I sure as hell won't protest it, as I am honest enough to know that there are factors here that I don't understand and will never understand.


Yes, speak your mind, but don't disrespect our boys and girls that are over there. They are doing their jobs without regard to thier safety, because the believe in America, and freedom. YOUR freedom, everyone's freedom. Freedom to sit here and bitch, out of harms way.

I do not like killing. But I don't know what else we can do at this point. Saddam doesn't mind killing his own people, so I guess this should be natural for him.. I don't like war, but who in thier right mind does? Are we just supposed to sit around and let Saddam kill his own people? The time for protesting was way back, 12 or more years ago, when we didn't finish this guy for his invasion of Kuwait (and many other atrocities)

You can be opposed to war, and still support our troops, and our government. I was opposed to spankings when I was a little guy, but I got them anyway, and I still loved my parents.... think about it.

[NotHome]

Well put quaddawg


From Ebayfan:

So what people that don't support the war are communists and should get there ass kicked?
Your a moron, it's people like you who's only thoughts are of violence
and let's kick some ass mentality that make America look bad. If your so fuc*ing gung ho why isn't your ass over there fighting?
Read the rules!!!!Keep it civil...


I take this personally. I did my time and now serve in functions that don't allow me to go over there. I was in during the gulf war, but was not called to duty. I volunteered to go, scared ---- about it but was very willing to go.

Most of the people I have met that protest the war do so through ignorance. The whole concept of "daddy's war" and "blood for oil" are just ignorance speaking. Do some real research on the economics behind this war. Do some research on the culture of these peoples. If you do, the reasons for this war will become apparent

Above all look at the finacial markets, why are they trending up if the war is so bad? (yes I know the market is down right now from Friday)

NotHome

[dssdog]

Yes, speak your mind, but don't disrespect our boys and girls that are over there. They are doing their jobs without regard to thier safety, because the believe in America, and freedom. YOUR freedom, everyone's freedom. Freedom to sit here and bitch, out of harms way.
I’m a little confused. When did I disrespect the troops fighting for our country? I have friends over there. I don’t agree with this administrations policy but I certainly have NO beef with our troops.
Can you honestly say that war was the only way to get saddam out? I would think for 100 billion we could have paid his generals to take out him, his sons and his entire family.
As for the America love it or leave it in other posts, that’s a pant load…not even worth addressing!:R

[phoztech]

dssdog...
if you make a habit of publicly paying large sums of money for things like that it becomes a PR nightmare and then everyone is looking for a handout.

besides.. where do you think this 100 billion that this war is suposedly going to cost is going? alot of it is going ot companies right here in the USA for making equipment supplies etc... so the money is staying right here in the USA or it is going to foreign governments that represent a future investment.
this is one of the reasons that war helps the economy. the government is like a kid in a toy store with a huge bankroll.

[dssdog]

phoztech

Following that line of reasoning, every time our economy tanks we would pick a fight. Don't forget this doesn’t include the price of occupation.
And in case you haven’t noticed, we ARE in a PR nightmare. Millions of people all over the world are protesting against this war.

[cleancards]

And most of those millions are taking handouts from America !

So whats your point ?

[phoztech]

the PR nightmare that we have at the moment would be ten fold if it came out that we payassasins on a regular basis to take out leaders that we do not like. this is not to say that we dont engage in things like that .. but just not on this type of grand scale... and in general the US pays for information but we do our own "wet" work... it is easier to control our own kites than it is to an outsider.

also this maybe a PR nightmare but at least the USA has a chance of proving the world wrong by finding WMD's and other violations not to mention removing a tyrant from office. if we start paying for assasinations(which would be against all sorts of international laws) we would look alot worse in the public eye..

and so what if there are alot of people protesting... that really does not mean a whole lot... i can alomost gaurantee that if this global economy was better at the moment that those protestors would not really be out there... also what is a few million people(besides the same number of people that saddam is proud to have killed).. how many billions of people are on planet earth? so what maybe 1-2% have gone out and protested against this war? that aint a whole lot , but because it gets media coverage people think that the whole world is against the war, when in reality the world is split and alot of peoples perceptions depends on the propoganda that they see every day on tv... i think thatour little family here is in a unique situation.. we have at our disposal the ability to watch satellite broadcasts from other countries unlike any other group of people(granted other people can do this to i am just stating that 100% of us can and do)... media i beleive is one of the real evils of this world.. they slant things to promote their political agenda and further what they want their readers/viewers to know and think... next time you are watching the news look pessimistically at it and dont take what they tell you as the truth.... most people find a news channel that only agrees with their viewpoint cause it is easier to have someone agree with you all the time and then they stick with that channel not realizing that it may not be the whole truth or a very biased viewpoint...

and yes look at history and what happens after wars and look at where the economy was before wars... it happens...
granted i think alot of this has to do with economy mental depression and the desire to distract people from their economic worries with a war.

I could go on for pages discussing the ecomoic advantages and disadvantages of war and how this war is unique in those economic "parlays"...

things will flutter on the market for the next month however things will still trend upwards...

dont fake the funk on a nasty dunk.

[ebayfan]

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
ebayfan your comments have made me sick...I was over there in Desert Shield/Storm..And I'm still in the reserve..One more personal attack like that and you'll be in the reading club for sure...This thread is on the edge folks...Keep it civil...

Whatever, do what you have to it woudn't be the first time. Your threatening to ban me over comments made in respect to a person that's
promoting violence towards non supporters of the war who in his world believes are communists. That makes alot of sense dude, did I personally attack you? I said if he was so gung ho or a war monger is another way to put it why isn't he over there?

[phoztech]

whoa... lets swallow some pride on all sides here...
lets not let saddam win by fighting amoungst ourselves... all of us have the same goal just different ways of achieving it. some want removal by diplomacy and some want it by force. and everyone wants the men and women over there to come home safe.

no one should be getting banned or reading clubbed, since clearly alot of this is an emotional outburst on both sides. cooler heads need to prevail.

[Bone Daddy]

It's not your views ebayfan...I'm a bigger person than that...I was talking about your comments I deleted that were directed to another person..(whose comments I also deleted)It's not your ideas that'll get you tossed, it's the way you word them...There is to be no more name calling or insults.....

[ebayfan]

I can respect that and agree that I should not have resorted to insults.

[Bone Daddy]

I reread my post and I combined 3 thoughts into one post and it may have been confusing....
1 I don't agree with your views ebayfan
2 I only singled you out because it appeared you fired the first round in the name calling
3 Dissenting with me won't get you tossed..

It seems whenever we get a political thread rolling something happens ...I'd hate to see a fine thread like this get closed or deleted..ebayfan your views are fine...It is a free country and dissention is a god given right...So no harm/ no foul....And lets see what else turns up in the sand...

[cleancards]

Sandcrabs Sir !
Sandcrabs...........

[dssdog]

:D LOL:)

[dssdog]

A friend e-mailed this to me and I wanted to share.


Subject: Makes good sense

If I could, I'd enlist today and help my country track down those responsible
for killing thousands of innocent people in New York City and Washington,
D.C. But, I'm over 50 now and the Armed Forces say I'm too old to track down
terrorists. You can't be older than 35 to join the military.

They've got the whole thing backwards. Instead of sending 18-year-olds off to
fight, they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join until you're at least 35.

For starters:

Researchers say 18-year-olds think about --- every 10 seconds. Old guys only
think about --- a couple of times a day, leaving us more that 28,000 additional seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.

Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a
dangerous soldier. If we can't kill the enemy we'll complain them into
submission. "My back hurts!" "I'm hungry!" "Where's the remote control?"

An 18-year-old hasn't had a legal beer yet and you shouldn't go to war until
you're at least old enough to legally drink. An average old guy, on the other
hand, has consumed 126,000 gallons of beer by the time he's 35 and a jaunt
through the desert heat with a backpack and M-60 would do wonders for the old
beer belly.

An 18-year-old doesn't like to get up before 10 a.m. Old guys get up early (to pee).

If old guys are captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd probably
forget where we put them. In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a
real brainteaser.

Boot camp would actually be easier for old guys. We're used to getting
screamed and yelled at and we actually like soft food. We've also developed a
deep appreciation for guns and rifles. We like them almost better than naps.
They could lighten up on the obstacle course, however.

I've been in combat and didn't see a single 20-foot wall with rope hanging
over the side , nor did I ever do any pushups after training. I can hear the
Drill Sergeant now, "Get down and give me...er...one."

And the running part is kind of a waste of energy. I've never seen anyone outrun a bullet.

An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to shave.

To actually carry on a conversation. To wear pants without the top of the butt crack showing and the boxer shorts sticking out.

To learn that a pierced tongue catches food particles.

And that a 200-watt speaker in the back seat of a Honda Accord can rupture an
eardrum.

All great reasons to keep our sons at home and to learn a little more about
life before sending them off to a possible death.

Let us old guys track down those dirty, rotten cowards who attacked our hearts on September 11.

The last thing the enemy would want to see right now is a couple of million old farts with attitudes.:eek:

[cleancards]

dssdog, now thats funny.....

[quaddawg]

I agree with that line of thinking dssdog.... (and I wasn't trying to single anyone out when I quoted you above, I really meant to hit reply, but hit quote instead..... I was sort of agreeing with you in some ways)


I would like to go to fight for our country, but am too old. I think I would make a good soldier/officer/swabbie/something.........

[dssdog]

I know bitching about my lower back pain would drive saddam out, (just ask my wife)!:o

[Farmer Dawn]

Thought you might want to read. It was forwarded to me.

This is from my co-worker's son who is active duty:

18 Mar 03


Family and Friends,
I am fine and I am safe. If you pray, use your prayers for the safety of my wife and two sons who are home alone, not for me. I am surrounded by great Americans, proud to serve their country and protect our way of life. As a result I am as safe as any of you, if not more.
I know that each of you has your own view on the pending war, I only say remember September 11th. Remember the crumbling towers. What were you doing that day? I know you remember. Think if that was your child or mother or sister or brother flying on one of those planes. As Tony Blair has said, the terrorists would have killed 300,000 if they could have, and they would have rejoiced. As the leader of the free world, we must LEAD. To think that those events are not related to what is occuring today is to have a naive view of how the world works.
We cannot forget, and we cannot shy away from the challenge of leadership.

And what is your challenge? It is to think long and hard about what you believe, about what it means to be a citizen of the strongest, richest, most powerful, and most importantly, most free nation on the planet.

Do you know why you can have those beliefs? Why you can believe what you want?

Many people in the world do not have that freedom. The simple freedoms of opinion, of belief in a God of their choice, of choosing their leaders, of choosing.....................you pick the freedom. Did you choose to spend money today? What did you buy? Isn't it great to be American, and oh so much better to be a Marine.

I have travelled the lands of Asia, the cities of Europe, the jungles of Central America, the islands of the Mediterranean, and the deserts of Africa and the Middle East, and I can tell you, we have a great country.Not a perfect country, but the greatest nonetheless.

Do you know why we have race riots in America?.....................
.........because we can.

Think about that and all that it implies.

It might be oil. It might money. It might be a lot of things. Believe what you want because you CAN believe what you want. But Iraqi men are killed for speaking their mind. Wives are raped in front of husbands, children are brutally beaten in front of mothers. Professional rapists, murderers, and criminals surround the man we wish to remove. Yes, professional rapists.Condoned. Paid. Think about that too.

Why now some ask?........What the hell have we been waiting for? That's my question.
Its easy to tell someone to be patient and wait when you are not the one being oppressed.
I could say much much more, and there is also much more that I cannot say. But I will stop there.

As for me, I am proud to be here, proud to be American, and proud to be a Marine. When I pray to God, the father of Christ, I first pray for my wife and sons...........................then I pray for WAR.

PS: DELETED THE NAME FOR PROTECTION OF PRIVACY.