Sept 11 = War in Iraq

[ittalian]

I just wanted to point out to all the people against the war, that we would not be there now if it hadn't been for 9-11. So every time you bash our president and think about how america is EVIL, think about this; 3,000+ at the WTC, and a few hundred more at the pentagon and a hundred more in Pensylvania. Not to mention the countless # of families that lost mothers, fathers and children in this country. We didn't start the war, but we will finish it. It's not about oil, it's about 911. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just plain wrong.

Thanks

Just needed to vent a little

[Bone Daddy]

What he said....

[cardkiller]

Ditto! Let us not forget the TROOPS over there also. They need our support not our protests!!!!!!!

[BrainDamage]

And, while you are protesting the war, making complete jacka$$es of yourselves, just remember this:

If you were not in America, you would not have the right or priviledge to protest to begin with. If you were in Iraq, for example, and you protested, you would be a DEAD protestor.

[nascarfan38]

What they said...my sentiments exactly!

[mouse01]

Not only can you not protest in Iraq but while Saddam is useing you as a human shield by setting troops in your schools and houses you can not even leave. You are forced to take part in Operation Human Shield and you are the shield. This is the greatest country in the world to live in and yet some people just don't see what they have. If you are protesting a war while living here you may as well move to Iraq and dance in the streets in support of Saddam because that is exactly what you are doing.

[[mist]]

And still none of this explains why the US is attacking Iraq..

(If you don't remember, it was bin Laden who was behind September 11)

Lets keep in mind that Bush has essentially condemned the lives of US troops (as there will undoubtedly be lives lost) in his attempt to secure oil..

It's all about the benjamins..

[scottfga]

u have a right to ur opinion and i respect that...but u must trust in our government because we have the most ethical president i have seen in my short years on earth. He loves this country,u can see it in his eyes..they no more info (intelligence) than we will ever imagine. They know whats up and are doing something about. Bush is a true man and it's hard to find that in a man this day and time.
Just trust in ur leaders they dont want this anymore than anybody else but the 9-11 thing opened up alot of info about Iraq aiding the idiots who came to our soil and murdered alot of ppl.

[scottfga]

OIL...was it reported that we only rely on 3% of their oil?...not sure but it doesn't sound like a reason to go to war...correct me if im wrong.

[NotHome]

If it's all about the oil, maybe you should research exactly where the US gets most of its oil. Maybe we should attack Mexico and Canada.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030319-114603-1214r

The pledge was to go after anyone who habored and/or supported terror attacks. So, the money Sadam gives to the families of suicide bombers does not count as aid/support? What about the training camps in Iraq?

Or how about the fact that SOB has not done what the WORLD agreed he should do back in 91 and 99 and 02. We didn't plant his ass back then because of the cease fire treaty, which he has not lived up too.

I remember who was behind Sept-11. I will not forget, ever.

NotHome

[Sgt_Stedenko]

I personally want to see bombs raining down from the sky.

[[mist]]

Originally posted by scottfga
OIL...was it reported that we only rely on 3% of their oil?...not sure but it doesn't sound like a reason to go to war...correct me if im wrong. Well, this is what I found with a quick google search..

http://www.crikey.com.au/business/2003/01/31/20030131oilandiraq.html

http://www.erf.org.eg/html/economic_00/html/table4_2.html

And the funniest story of the day, when you take this into consideration:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20030320/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_iraq_fire

I especially like the quote:

"Needless to say, it is a crime for that regime to be destroying the riches of the Iraqi people," Rumsfeld told a news conference in Washington.

Iraq isn't the only country with weapons of mass destruction, serious social and political problems, and other issues.. It just happens to be the one sitting on top of a whole pile of exactly what Bush wants to control..

[NotHome]

You did not answer the question - Iraq could have 99% of the reserves, if WE don't buy from them why do we care about thier oil?

Just because they are not the only country with these problems does not mean we should not go in and take care of those problems. When a cop pulls you over, you are not getting off by saying "but everbody else was speeding."

You ingnorantly blurt out the insane stupidity that the leftist media spews forth. Do real research and you will find that this is not about oil. But that would take too much time away from your peace rallies right?

NotHOme

[[mist]]

Originally posted by NotHome
So, the money Sadam gives to the families of suicide bombers does not count as aid/support? What about the training camps in Iraq?
True, true.. I don't think anybody will say that Sadam is a good guy.. But the US doesn't have squeaqy clean hands either.. Heck, Bush has personally done business with the bin Laden family.. and has been funding Israel's continued battle with Palestine for years..

It's a big mess. The whole thing sucks. We'll all agree.. I don't like seeing _anybody_ forced to go to war.. Similarly, I really don't like seing the American people brainwashed by the media.. The world should be able to know the whole truth, of which Oil, Bush's personal financial gains, etc, are all a part..

I don't want people to be Anti-Bush, I just want people to know a bit more of the story..

[NotHome]

Unfortunately, due to the spoils of war, THERE IS NO PALESTINE. They could have a Palestine, but they do not want to live peacefully with the Jews. The Jews live daily with the fear instilled in us by Sept.-11. They act as they must to survive. I don't think their hands are completely clean but you cannot tell me a man who kills children is a soldier. If the suicide bombers picked infrastructure targets, I would recognized their efforts. Until then they are terrists and must be expunged.

NotHome

[[mist]]

One more thing, so that everybody can get a better feel for what _my_ biasses are: I'm a Canadian living in Sweden.. :) That might explain a bit why I tend to play the devils advocate..

And in the interest of preventing a flamewar, I'll post less and read more in this thread.. I'm sure some others have some opinions..

[JustCuz]

Originally posted by [mist]
...in his attempt to secure oil.. If you think the war with Iraq is all about oil, answer this ONE question: Why didn't we take the oil during Gulf War I?

[nascarfan38]

Justcuz,
Great point, my man. But what we must understand is this is a bait and switch campaign by the anti war folks. You can counter their point with hard facts and they'll switch to another. I sure hope this isn't about whether it'll cost me 10 cents less for a gallon of gas, because at this very moment I have a son, who, if the news reports are accurate is in Iraq right now on his way to either Basrah or Baghdad. I KNOW IN MY HEART THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO cause I have a son willing to die for it! And he does that cause he wants folks in America to have the right to dissent, and cause he wants to take out whomever supports or aids, or trains, or harbors, or gives a speck of comfort to any terrorist...Al Queda or Iraqi or whomever. Put your kid on the battlefield beside mine and then have the puny reasons for not going after a tyrannt of Hitlerian proportions.
I have not meant to offend anyone by my tone, but if so, too bad.

[ozzy67]

My friends, we must realize that our ideas of freedom are being challenged on all sides(North Korea, China, Russia, France, etc).
We must realize that the opposition to this war and the protests are from people that have been taught Marxism in the most part by our schools and "Professors".
It all comes down to this irrefutable point.
The people that are protesting the war for liberation of Iraq hold the view that NOTHING is worth fighting for. jmo
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS THAT FIGHT FOR FREEDOM

[blcjet]

Originally posted by NotHome
You did not answer the question - Iraq could have 99% of the reserves, if WE don't buy from them why do we care about thier oil?

Just because they are not the only country with these problems does not mean we should not go in and take care of those problems. When a cop pulls you over, you are not getting off by saying "but everbody else was speeding."

You ingnorantly blurt out the insane stupidity that the leftist media spews forth. Do real research and you will find that this is not about oil. But that would take too much time away from your peace rallies right?

NotHOme

US oil firms use more Iraqi crude
February 24 2003
By Colum Lynch
New York

American oil refineries have dramatically increased their reliance on Iraqi crude - even as the Bush Administration steps up preparations for a military attack on Baghdad - to offset a shortfall in oil imports caused by the recent political crisis in Venezuela.

The United States has more than doubled its consumption of Iraqi crude over the past two months, according to unpublished UN figures. The US Department of Energy, whose Iraqi import figures typically lag behind - by about 40 days - those of the United Nations, also recorded a sudden surge of Iraqi oil imports into the United States last week to more than 1 million barrels a day, US officials said.

"We did have a large increase in Iraqi imports, but we don't know if that is sustained," said Doug MacIntyre, an international energy analyst at the Department of Energy who produces an unpublished weekly report on oil imports. Mr MacIntyre declined to provide specific figures, citing concerns that the underlying data was too preliminary.

Iraqi exports to the US, which includes the Caribbean, averaged nearly 500,000 barrels a day during the first 11 months of last year. US firms bought only 39 per cent of Iraqi oil exports during the second half of last year. Between December 5 and February 1, US buyers consumed about 1.1 million barrels per day, accounting for 62 per cent of Iraq's exports during that period, according to UN figures.

The trend marks a significant reversal by US oil companies, which drastically cut their dependence on Iraqi oil last summer because of rising illicit Iraqi surcharges and concerns that the Bush Administration was preparing for war.

Under the terms of the United Nations-supervised Iraqi oil-for-food deal, Iraq may sell oil to purchase food and medicines, fund the repair of the country's infrastructure and finance UN weapons inspections. Under the humanitarian program, the UN sets export prices and monitors Baghdad's spending.

Although Iraq rarely sells oil directly to American oil companies, Exxon Mobil, ChevronTexaco, Valero Energy and other US firms have purchased more than half of Iraq's oil through foreign middlemen since the oil-for-food program came into existence. Spokesmen for Exxon Mobil and Valero could not be reached for comment.

Some American oil giants began scaling back their imports of Iraqi crude last summer.

Oil analysts say that Iraq's decision to stop demanding a surcharge in September, and a sudden stoppage of Venezuelan exports following a national strike, has renewed American interest in the Iraqi oil market.

- Washington Post

[Bone Daddy]

Well OK blcjet...Where in that whole cut and paste was a percentage of Iraq crude used by the US? It says we doubled our imports but 1.1 million barrels of oil isn't much compared to what we in the US consume daily..

[Bone Daddy]

Ok this cut and paste will give you a clearer feel as to how much the US needs Iraqi oil..
The US, however, has increased its dependence on foreign oil. Thirty years ago, imports represented 36 percent of US oil consumption. Today, the US imports more than 56 percent of its oil needs.

Its reliance on the Middle Eastern states has gone up – slightly. In January, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), a part of the US Department of Energy, the Persian Gulf accounted for about 25 percent of US imports.

Saudi Arabia alone represented 15 percent of that. In 1973, the US imported 26.5 percent of its crude from the Gulf.

So to make it simple 25 % of our imports come from the middle east and minus 15% for Saudi Arabia that leaves 10% scattered between 5 other countries, So it's a small number folks...And that's not counting what we produce....

[Farmer Dawn]

my brother is over there fighting for us also..i pray it ends quickly and for the safety of our men and women over there..great pic It4vette

[stuffy]

Farmer Dawn and Nascarfan - Thank you for having family with the courage to do a job that so many can't/won't. God Bless them all.

FRANCE - is the prime user of Iraqi oil, as well as Sudanese Oil, etc... They are so heavy into oil that with all their government contracts on the line with this war they will be hurting - really bad!

I have friends/family into oil - Canadian oil. They have told stories for years about Bin Laden/France/Germany/China/India/Etc.... we all used to just listen and wait for their stories to be over so we could get onto whatever. How arrogant we were!!! 9-11 gave a whole new meaning to "I told you so" in my household....

I say it is the environmentalist whackos who are to blame.... If we were able to use our own resources then the entire NA continent would be better off. But then again, guess who funds the environmentalist whacko rallies - TV ads - magazine ads...... the leftists.

JustCuz - you are so right! The price of oil then, as it is now, went down after the war - not up as those on the left tried to scare everyone into believing. Who in their right - business mind - would want to get into something when it's value is on the decline? Bush may not be the smartest of all presidents - but he ain't no dummy either!

[IPatch]

Hussein For Dummies
by Dennis Miller

All the rhetoric on whether or not we should go to war against Iraq has got my insane little brain spinning like a roulette wheel. I enjoy reading opinions from both sides but I have detected a hint of confusion from some of you. As I was reading the paper recently, I was reminded of the best advice someone ever gave me. He told me about the kiss method ("keep it simple, stupid!) Therefore, with this as a theme, I'd like to apply this theory for those who don't quite get it. My hope is that we can simplify things a bit and recognize a few important facts.

Here are 10 things to consider when voicing an opinion on this important issue:

1) Out of President Bush and Saddam Hussein ... Hussein is the bad guy.

2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing keep this in mind, they have Libya heading the committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own math here.

3) If you use Google search and type in "French military victories," your reply will be "did you mean French military defeats?"

4) If your only anti-war slogan is "no war for oil," sue your school district for allowing you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the education you deserve.

5) Saddam and bin laden will not seek United Nations approval before they try to kill us.

6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the President. He plays one on TV.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an "infidel!" In addition, bin laden wants you dead, too.

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy" but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit hanging out with the dell computer dude.

9) We are not trying to liberate them.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it, our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation.

I hope this helps.

[nascarfan38]

Stuffy,
Thank you very much. All of our military is in our prayers. Members of the Den can show their support. Tie a yellow ribbon around a tree or post and burn a candle in your window until our troops return home. This isn't about politics but about our loved ones. If the mods feel this request is inappropriate, please feel free to remove. Thank you all for remembering my son, nephew and others who make us proud!

[NotHome]

Farmer Dawn and NascarFan

You and your families are in my prayers. May your sons (and daughters)and brothers return to you safe.

Thank you
NotHome

[newmex]

make no mistake!, I hope all troops come back safe!
and no civil casualties in Iraq as well!
I have reasonable doubts about the incursion, but as usual could be wrong!
Since all the info available is censored by the govts from both countries, any cut and paste is not enuff.
The propaganda is the greatest psy op ever. A soldier breaking a saddam poster and an iraqui hitting saddam pic with a shoe, well it just looks unreal even funny.

Guess time will tell! ...

[nascarfan38]

Nothome,
Thank you very much. Newmex, I too, pray for no civilian causualties. Unfortunately, soldiers have already died. My sympathy goes to the families of all of the slain. I wish these could had been prevented.
For all the others who may respond with prayers and best wishes, please know my family appreciates it more than you'll ever know! Please accept this as future thanks. May God bless America and all the Nations of this world.