What if No weapons and No terrorist atacks from Iraq? [Archive]

MercurE1

March 24th, 2003, 12:05 PM

Ok if it was about the OIL then ---- we would take the southern fields and then the northern then negotiate with sadam and the kurds. If we did not care about anything more we would have leveled the towns with artilery. We are there for one purpose to find the chem weapons which we know are there and free the iraqi people. Does anyone remember WWII or say 9-11? I mean come on... dear lord open your eyes, this is a guy who has used chemical weapons on HIS OWN PEOPLE as well as IRAN. He did this to punish the people who surrendered in 91. Places he found where soldiers had left their units to surrender came home to find families murdered. He has special troops now working with regular units to ensure no one leaves or doesn't fight. People can not leave baghdad because on the corners people with machine guns are waiting to kill anyone trying to leave.

This is the same thing that happened with Hitler. i could post more similarities but it is pointless. If you think that he is such a nice guy, go over there and tell him, and see what happens. Oh and don't tell him you won't work for him, cause he tortured his own scientists who told him they would not work on a nuke (but he only tortured them for like 11 years, so whats the big deal right?)

Some people boggle my mind.

Merc

dssdog

March 24th, 2003, 12:13 PM

ATTENTION WAL-MART SHOPPERS…
China has been doing this for years, yet they have favorite trade status.

pimp101

March 24th, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by dssdog
ATTENTION WAL-MART SHOPPERS…
China has been doing this for years, yet they have favorite trade status.

ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS…
China dosent fund terrorists and encourage their people to come over here and KILL us!!!!

tony12963

March 24th, 2003, 12:35 PM

quote

ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS…
China dosent fund terrorists and encourage their people to come over here and KILL us!!!!

AMEN BROTHER,AMEN

medikated

March 24th, 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by newmex
no, dont answer yet, lets wait and see, hope no weapons to be planted by the usgovt.
dont tell me youll really be surprised?!!

So let me get this straight newmex, you're basically paranoid and completely married to your opinion, and there's no way to sway you from your belief because you already assume that the US govt is lying to you. (oh, I guess by the way Uncle Sam's done a lot of international evidence planting in the last 5 administrations, right?) So why even bother arguing the point?

Fact is, the FREE PRESS which we have would just LOVE to crucify Bush (any president for that matter - think of the ratings!) on something that big. If not our media, how about France's or alJazeera. Oh wait, you must think they're getting paid off?!?

OK Oliver Stone, I guess you're right :R

After living in this country for a few years, a Russian dissident remarked at how amazing it was that in a land where people are so free, all they want to do is fantasize about complicated conspiracies that if true would make them less free. I guess he was talking about you.

KT

dssdog

March 24th, 2003, 01:11 PM

Sorry, I was addressing the atrocities against his people reason. I thought the administration gave up on the 9-11 link before they started the weapons of mass destruction, but after the we aren’t going in for oil argument.

tony12963

March 24th, 2003, 04:21 PM

:mad:

newmex

March 24th, 2003, 05:25 PM

1. I really hope i´m wrong, and mass des weapons to be found in iraq, so: this attack to be legal and lost lives to be worth it.
2. I´ll rather live in the US than somewhere else.
3. I try to make my own conclusions not based on the media, since its well known that all the media is censored, but in common sense.
4. I respect the us army and american patriotism.
but...
1. Having the balls and the capability to do something doenst give you the Legal Right to do it.
2. After so many years of trying to get the nations united, this just make nations get apart.
3. All the nations have the legal right to have weapons to defend themself, just like you prob have a gun at home.
4. Trying to discuss something and get different opinions is the important thing in this post (not if newmex is wrong or not)
5. Took too much to get our freedom, so exersicing it, shoulnd´t be a problem, using the brains to see if we are missing something is not a sin.

sparker

March 25th, 2003, 04:29 PM

what were the 3000 gas suits they just found for

MercurE1

March 25th, 2003, 07:55 PM

In case the angry invaders found their VX stores and used them on the iraqis, lol

NotHome

March 26th, 2003, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by newmex
1. I really hope i´m wrong, and mass des weapons to be found in iraq, so: this attack to be legal and lost lives to be worth it.
2. I´ll rather live in the US than somewhere else.
3. I try to make my own conclusions not based on the media, since its well known that all the media is censored, but in common sense.
4. I respect the us army and american patriotism.
but...
1. Having the balls and the capability to do something doenst give you the Legal Right to do it.
2. After so many years of trying to get the nations united, this just make nations get apart.
3. All the nations have the legal right to have weapons to defend themself, just like you prob have a gun at home.
4. Trying to discuss something and get different opinions is the important thing in this post (not if newmex is wrong or not)
5. Took too much to get our freedom, so exersicing it, shoulnd´t be a problem, using the brains to see if we are missing something is not a sin.

1: We have already found weapons that Iraq was not supposed to have. Just the scuds give the US legal precidence to go in acccording to the cease-fire agreements.

2: Same here

3: agreed

4: Respect and support are two differnt things. Do you support our troops or only respect them?

On the second set:
1:The US has the moral obligation to remove Sadam as we are the only ones capable of both removing him and restoring order to the country. We do have the legal right under the LEGAL CONTRACT of the cease-fire aggreements.

2: The United Nations has changed to a US hating forum. It needs to be disbanded as it is not performing it's duties. Just look at the number of resolutions against Isreal and Iraq, both should have had actions taken years ago.

3: I do have guns at home but they are defensive weapons. I do not have explosives which would be an offensive weapon. Same thing holds true for weapons of mass destruction.

4: It is your freedom to express your ideas and opinions. It my right to disagree.

5: No cost is too great to preserve the constitution. The lives of our soldiers are of great importance but we cannot allow ourselves to live in fear.

NotHome

skootch

March 26th, 2003, 07:23 AM

I think you chicken hawks ought to quit talking big and sign up. Our boys could certainly use the help.

Just think you could actually do something besides telling everybody your a patriot.

You couldn't keep a real American from joining the US Army or better yet the US Marines.

While you in Iraq we'll miss your big talk. Maybe you will find WMD. You'll actually be a hero.

Next we could send your blowhard a$$ to France to fight them.

God bless our GI's. Let's get our kids home.

NotHome

March 26th, 2003, 07:43 AM

Skootch

I agree, that's why I joined a long time ago. Can't go now because of age and my job function.

NotHome

panchero

March 26th, 2003, 02:08 PM

I hear a lot about how Saddam killed his people and how he used weapons on them and that’s bad….
Us did the same with the Tuskanigie experiment in which black solders were infected with syphilis and not given a cure and left to die.
Not to mention the nuclear experiments in Alaska.
So we are no better in that aspect, mom always said don’t toss rock if you lve in a glass house.
Saddam is a dictator who rig election, and was in fact not elected the pres of Iraq, But neither was Bush, he wan the election in court.
Saddam was not, and has not been linked to 9/11
Scuds were disclosed with that “disclosure “ Iraq had to turn in.
Re: Russian supply Iraq with war stuff, Paybacks are a bitch, remember the afghan war, when US supplied and trained Bin Ladin with weapons and supplies to battle Russia
Bush would never be able to broker a deal with Sadam for oil, while France and Germany already have a deal and are just waiting for the sanctions to lift.
The report that Colin gave with the nice pictures and recordings proved to find nothing after inspectors hit those spots.
Now the US cries war crime cause of the Geneva convention and the showing of US troops on TV. I think US should Iraq’s surrendering on TV first.
And isn’t it also a violation to hit non-military target (ie TV station)
So far we went from disbarment, to weapons of mass destruction , to potential treat to terror connection, back to weapons, then to preemptive strike (like the scuds can reach us) and now we are on liberating.
Oh and since we are on the freedom fries and such, lets return the statue of liberty, let not forget that if it were not for them, we all would be speaking the queens English and paying tea tax by now.
And if oil is no concern, why is there more interest in protecting the wells, then getting the humanitarian aid in.
No one is backing Saddom and saying that he is good or right, but the US has no valid justification to “invade” or ‘Attack” a foreign country.
Why not go after N.Koria, cause they can put a hurtin.
Saddom is weak from 12 years of sanctions, and from all the inspections.
Lets not blame the French, for our countries mistakes
I do support the troops and families, its not their fault they are there.
“you can not justify any action that the whole world is crying against”
Canada, and Mexico are against it, are we going to start calling them names.
Better yet Tacos will be freedom dogs, and Canadian Bacon will just be Ham.

panchero

March 26th, 2003, 02:13 PM

75 billion for another month of fighting, but we have no social security to look forward to, go figure

dssdog

March 26th, 2003, 02:40 PM

You said it panchero.

:cool:

crownvic

March 26th, 2003, 04:05 PM

Geez this thread is full of opionated history facts..LOL

I'm grinding my teeth but I promised that I would not get personal,so that being said.
Shussssh Crownvic.:gg

NotHome

March 26th, 2003, 06:06 PM

I give up - The US is bad, spank us and put us to bed without dinner.

I won't even justify these posts with a responce.

NotHome

phoztech

March 26th, 2003, 06:14 PM

I like discussing politcs and peoples short term focused minds.

here is something people need to think about... when you save money and try and build wealth are you doing it for yourself or are you doing it for your children and grand children. the answer is what seperates the rich and the poor. this can be applied to alot of things not just wealth.

AK47

March 26th, 2003, 07:04 PM

I am sick of all these people saying this war is about oil. What the hell did you guys drive to work your no better than George W's oil buddies. I am proud to say I am a G.W. oil buddy. I dont want to hear about electric or hydrogen cars either because you gotta burn coal to get electricity or seperate Hydrogen from oxygen. Just my 2 cents.

newmex

March 26th, 2003, 08:57 PM

This war is Illegal as today.Iit´s been more than week and no chemical weapons been used, nor biological or nuclear, yes to: scuds and other weapons. scud by themself are not in this category.
today the open meet at UN was not transmited, only 1 tv station CNBC,
why not fox or cnn? You should had a look at it, The world is angry, not for trying to get sadam, but because its unilateral, NOT multilateral.
I am not mad at any us military, call it navy or army, but i´m dissapointed by Bush, yes, just the president, cause its clear he broke the law, the international law, the war law and the U.N.statutes, history will judge him and the coalition leaders.
Today millions around the world are asking why havent sadam used his mass des weapons?,why no plane has crashed in L.A. or Las Vegas? Who gave Bush the right to brake the law? And the most important one:
Why can americans support a war, that is really an invasion of a sovereing country and kill civilians, such illegal actions and crimes of war like destroying tv station and market, as residental areas?

Unfortunately, hating for U.S. is uprising, the face of young people at australia, france, germany, arabs all over the world, malasya, and the most important, at home!!!
This is a big world we are living, everybody has family, a dad, a son or a daughter there, so that´s why all want to win this war, and family to come back safe, thats is ok, but in the first place why are they there? why not in north korea where there is proven nuclear weapons, or in cuba where people have no democracy, or better yet in
the street of new york removing drugs from the street? dont tell me YOU are personally mad cause sadam killed some fellows iraquis? come on, you...just dont care! so there is only one thing left...OIL.
Stop the war, give peace a chance!

AK47

March 27th, 2003, 12:53 AM

All the people you see protesting the war are Red Diaper Doper Babies. These people which I witnessed firsthand blocking traffic in San Francisco are out protesting the war because they have no jobs and are commies and organized by communiest groups as well as funded by them. They are out protesting the war and trashing the streets and oh lets not forget about the Molotov cocktails which were found in a backpack in an alley in S.F. Yes I do agree that we should have gone to North Korea instead of Iraq but I still support our troops and the president. Do you know anyone with a real job that told their boss I am taking the day off to protest the war? These protester do not represent the majorities opinion. I mean take a look at these protesters hippies taking off their clothes in middle of the street trashing news vans but if our military blows up a news van lets crucify them. Lets not mention the U.S. pows that were tortured and broadcast on Iraqi T.V. Why do you anti war guys keep forgetting about the chemical plant they found also in Iraq oh I forgot Uncle Sam built it real fast before the journalist showed up.

MrCrowley

March 27th, 2003, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by newmex
This war is Illegal as today.Iit´s been more than week and no chemical weapons been used, nor biological or nuclear, yes to: scuds and other weapons. scud by themself are not in this category.
today the open meet at UN was not transmited, only 1 tv station CNBC,
why not fox or cnn? You should had a look at it, The world is angry, not for trying to get sadam, but because its unilateral, NOT multilateral.
I am not mad at any us military, call it navy or army, but i´m dissapointed by Bush, yes, just the president, cause its clear he broke the law, the international law, the war law and the U.N.statutes, history will judge him and the coalition leaders.
Today millions around the world are asking why havent sadam used his mass des weapons?,why no plane has crashed in L.A. or Las Vegas? Who gave Bush the right to brake the law? And the most important one:
Why can americans support a war, that is really an invasion of a sovereing country and kill civilians, such illegal actions and crimes of war like destroying tv station and market, as residental areas?

Unfortunately, hating for U.S. is uprising, the face of young people at australia, france, germany, arabs all over the world, malasya, and the most important, at home!!!
This is a big world we are living, everybody has family, a dad, a son or a daughter there, so that´s why all want to win this war, and family to come back safe, thats is ok, but in the first place why are they there? why not in north korea where there is proven nuclear weapons, or in cuba where people have no democracy, or better yet in
the street of new york removing drugs from the street? dont tell me YOU are personally mad cause sadam killed some fellows iraquis? come on, you...just dont care! so there is only one thing left...OIL.
Stop the war, give peace a chance!

You are obviously a French Immigrant. I hope you do not live in Canada. If you do go the hell back to France where you belong. You can not even type a proper sentence.40 some odd countries back this war.It is not for oil. You will eat those words soon. I do believe that the US should pump enough oil from Iraq to pay for this 75 billion dollar debt that the tax payers are going to have to pay for. Not because of their own doing but because Saddam would not comply with UN Disarmament for 12 GOD DAMN Years. THE UNITED NATIONS IS NOW A IRRELEVANT ENTITY. THEY BLEW IT THIS TIME.It is about time we freedom loving people need to stand up to these cowards who use women and children as human shields.That is UNBELIEVABLE that someone would do this to innocent people. Not to mention fighting in civilian clothes and storing weapons in schools and hospitals and wearing US and UK uniforms to get close to troops and pretending to surender and then pulling out a gun to kill them and cutting off the water and electricity to your own people (IN UMM QARS)and firing chemical or biological weapons at your own people(THE KURDS).Tried to take over Kuwait. Need I go on.You obviously listen to only what you want to believe and that is that the US, Britian,Australia and 37 other countries are totally wrong for getting rid of SADDAM(this is how to spell it by the way). Your solution to the problem is to sit back and not do anything. COWARD.You need to watch real news and not SADDAMTV.You are MISINFORMED. AND TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT NORTH KOREA WILL BE NEXT IF THEY DON'T BACK DOWN.I think while they are there they should go into Iran and Syria also to show the world we are not f-cking around no more.Clean up the Middle East.Its about damn time!They had their chance. 12 YEARS!

Sorry Mods for the irrate post but this is crazy!

dssdog

March 27th, 2003, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by AK47
I am sick of all these people saying this war is about oil. What the hell did you guys drive to work your no better than George W's oil buddies. I am proud to say I am a G.W. oil buddy. I dont want to hear about electric or hydrogen cars either because you gotta burn coal to get electricity or seperate Hydrogen from oxygen. Just my 2 cents.
Following that line of reasoning…
That would mean that if you own anything that is not US made and US assembled, you have contributed to the decline in our economy and you are responsible for lost US jobs. That’s called deductive reasoning.
All the people you see protesting the war are Red Diaper Doper Babies. Keep in mind, Rush is an entertainer. No different then Martin Sheen. You should use quotes when using his lines.

dssdog

March 27th, 2003, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by MrCrowley
You are obviously a French Immigrant. I hope you do not live in Canada. If you do go the hell back to France where you belong. You can not even type a proper sentence.40 some odd countries back this war.It is not for oil. You will eat those words soon. I do believe that the US should pump enough oil from Iraq to pay for this 75 billion dollar debt that the tax payers are going to have to pay for. Not because of their own doing but because Saddam would not comply with UN Disarmament for 12 GOD DAMN Years. THE UNITED NATIONS IS NOW A IRRELEVANT ENTITY. THEY BLEW IT THIS TIME.It is about time we freedom loving people need to stand up to these cowards who use women and children as human shields.That is UNBELIEVABLE that someone would do this to innocent people. Not to mention fighting in civilian clothes and storing weapons in schools and hospitals and wearing US and UK uniforms to get close to troops and pretending to surender and then pulling out a gun to kill them and cutting off the water and electricity to your own people (IN UMM QARS)and firing chemical or biological weapons at your own people(THE KURDS).Tried to take over Kuwait. Need I go on.You obviously listen to only what you want to believe and that is that the US, Britian,Australia and 37 other countries are totally wrong for getting rid of SADDAM(this is how to spell it by the way). Your solution to the problem is to sit back and not do anything. COWARD.You need to watch real news and not SADDAMTV.You are MISINFORMED. AND TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT NORTH KOREA WILL BE NEXT IF THEY DON'T BACK DOWN.I think while they are there they should go into Iran and Syria also to show the world we are not f-cking around no more.Clean up the Middle East.Its about damn time!They had their chance. 12 YEARS!

Sorry Mods for the irrate post but this is crazy!

With all of your spelling and grammatical errors, you probably shouldn’t be making fun of anyone’s postings.
:R

AK47

March 27th, 2003, 05:30 AM

dssdog

March 27th, 2003, 06:05 AM

By the way I am not quoting Rush when I use the term Red Diaper Doper Baby. That term was used in the 1950's to refer to kids who were raised by communist parents. The talk show host Mike Savage added the doper part to it. I consider myself an independant not a Republican. I cant stand people like Rush or Sean Hannity that always stand behind the republicans whatever they do. I disagree alot with the Republicans especially with their social politics.
Well at least your not listening to Rush. We do however have to work on your listening to Savage. Do your homework on him and you’ll find out what a fraud he is.:)
What do you mean about this only buying U.S. products. I buy whatever I want not just U.S. products all I am saying is people say this war is about oil and what the heck are they putting in their cars.
I was using this as a simplistic comparison to your oil comment. Things are a little more complicated then that. You do realize that the US will never see direct money from Iraq’s oil. The UN and the Arab countries will never let that happen. Face it, the good old American tax dollar will be paying for this war.
I know you anti-war people are going to be the first to complain about high gas prices and then you don't want us to drill in a barren tundra in Alaska because of some stupid caribou mating habits.
I for one will never complain about the price of gas. The company I work for pays for all of my fuel.
In the big picture, you never know when caribou will hold the key curing a disease. It’s not that I want to cuddle a caribou, but once you drive a plant or an animal into extinction you will never find its full potential.

NotHome

March 27th, 2003, 06:34 AM

As far as the economic situation, look at a long term graph of the DOW. Draw a best fit line from the begining untill today. You will find that we really are not that far off statistically. You can also do the same for the 1980 to present time frame.

The 1990's were a bubble, caused by the unchecked growth of the 'dot.com' market and the ease of investing through 401k programs. We are now seeing the backlash of this bubble.

NotHome

dssdog

March 27th, 2003, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by NotHome
I give up - The US is bad, spank us and put us to bed without dinner.

I won't even justify these posts with a responce.

NotHome
Glad you changed your mind!:)

crownvic

March 27th, 2003, 11:47 AM

You really have to understand and follow this situation to understand WHY the IRAQI TV station was a target. I'm not even gonna try to expalin if you don't know.
Yes there will be innocent civilians loose their lives and that's sad but darn what can you expect when the IRAQI soldiers are dressing up as civilians and ambushing OUR troops... For that you can blame SADA$$..
If SADA$$ was such a great Leader you would think that he would have spent hell of a lot more on the IRAQI airforce instead of weapons of mass destruction.LOL.
And to the comments about BUSH making an illegal move.... I gotta say to them folks is you must think that SADA$$ got legal permission to move into KUWAIT 12 years ago..LMAO.
This is an EVIL man and must be taken care of..End of story.

:)
Oh one other thing concerning these posts,lets not get into putting down other members for spelling and grammar otherwise I will edit and or close the freakin thread.
Braindamage who'd I do on my spelling??:gg

Bone Daddy

March 27th, 2003, 11:57 AM

loks fin 2 mee...And where in heck is my spellcheck????Everytime I use it , it freaks out and highlights names, abbv, takes forever..And what kind of piece of junk would give you an alternate spellings for words I know I spelled right???:Z

mouse01

March 27th, 2003, 01:24 PM

What if No weapons and No terrorist atacks from Iraq?
That would make our job of taking Saddam and his goons out of power a lot easier.:)

fancy pants

March 27th, 2003, 02:26 PM

For all of you liberals living in Fantasy Land, please get a grip on reality and read Con Coughlin's book Saddam: King of Terror. The following is from the Book jacket:

An unprecedented biography, drawn from the author's exclusive access to high-ranking defectors, intelligence officials, and even Saddam's own relatives -- fully illustrated with photos from his early life to the present

Two weeks before September 11, 2001, Saddam Hussein placed his troops on their highest military alert since the Gulf War. As al-Qaeda terrorists set their attacks on America in motion, the Iraqi dictator was prepared to go to war for a second time with the United States. How did an illegitimate child from Tikrit become the West's greatest adversary, and one of the most dangerous and murderous dictators of modem times?

Saddam: King of Terror is the most insightful and illuminating portrait of the Iraqi president to date-and a fascinating study of the making of a tyrant. Con Coughlin, executive editor of London's award-winning Sunday Telegraph, has covered the Middle East for decades -- on the front lines, narrowly escaping kidnapping and violence. He has cultivated exclusive contacts among the Western intelligence community and numerous defectors from Saddam's inner circles -- including former generals, political associates, and bodyguards as well as childhood friends. Coughlin knew immediately that American and British declarations of war against terrorism after the September 11th attacks would sooner rather than later encompass Saddam Hussein as well as Osama bin Laden. Coughlin shows that any operation against terrorism will be incomplete as long as Saddam remains in power -- that international policies will have to change from cautious tolerance to active intervention, a change that is already becoming a reality.

Coughlin also provides the first complete portrait of Saddam's childhood ever published, compiled from the author's interviews with Saddam's contemporaries and relatives who have never before spoken publicly about him According to Coughlin, Saddam has a younger sister no one knew about, and he idolizes his mother, although his childhood was deeply marred by his shame about being fatherless. From his earliest years, he looked to his mother's brother as a father figure, and Coughlin tells how it was this uncle who first introduced Saddam to a life of crime and political rebellion. Saddam: King of Terror meticulously traces Saddam's bloody rise to power, from Saddam's first murder and his time in prison, to an eyewitness account of Saddam storming Iraq's presidential palace in a tank, to his almost feral ruthlessness in disposing of his opponents, even close friends and relatives, to create his regime -- a complex mechanism in which family and tribe are central, held together by Saddam's carefully orchestrated reign of fear.

In Saddam: King of Terror, we see both the bizarre, almost pathological behavior of an international pariah and the unshakable power of a tyrant who has defied the world's censure and holds a nation in his grasp.

newmex

March 27th, 2003, 05:49 PM

messages comes in envelopes, you open the envelope and trow it away, i´m the envelope, hope most of you readers got the message!

I´m not from france neither canada, i respect everyone opinions, and expect all to do the same, even if we dont agree. thats what i expect to listen from america of : france, germany, and many other countries, respect.!
¨In the people, like in the countries, the respect to others rights, is the peace!¨ Benito juarez
I have a list of more than a dozen countries (Iraq included) that have no democracy, that will be happy that the world together will help, but, how can democracy be exhalted, when bush didnt listened to the majority, in the UN, and now in the world.
More wars are now in the minds of americans, like korea, iran, libia, congo, are you ready to pay for it? this can collapse the economic order, you could loose your car, house, job, SON.
Peace,tolerance and legal rights in society should prevail.!

mouse01

March 27th, 2003, 06:44 PM

Bush did have a majority of the UN backing us. The reason we gave up on going through the UN is because France was going to veto it and thus making it a lot harder to proceed. France is the reason the UN looks like a waist of time and money today. The UN will get going good again but for the next couple of years their meaning will be deminished.

crownvic

March 27th, 2003, 07:33 PM

Oh I was gonna mention also that there would be NO France only for the Americans and the Brits after SADA@@'s Grandaddy in WW2.. but how soon The French forget this.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,I think this thread is not going bad at all seems like it's getting a little more factual..
Thanks for them pics BRAIN of you in the Ice skating competition,you sure look different with your hair in a pony tail..
I have only e mailed them to a few members BRAIN so not much to worry about.. Where they taken before the OPERA/BALLET pictures??:)

Mel

March 27th, 2003, 07:55 PM

I think as far as a humanitarian body the UN is: good
But the Security Counsel: means nothing

You can not have international LAW if nobody is willing to INFORCE the LAW.

It’s called Anarchy.

chevy

March 27th, 2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by newmex
US claims that the main reason to attack Iraq is to free iraq people from Sadam, Why didnt went to cuba first, is closer and cheaper,
OOOPs , not enough oil, guess not worthy yet?

Come on open your eyes, at least show some reality, this is all about the bens, its ok to go to war when its the only way, but why such a hurry? as someone in a reply said, no news about mass destruction (that chem fact could be seen from atlanta) weapons so dont lose the point, what if no mass des weapons found, then this is illegal, what if north korea suddenly wants to help iraq, and iran and the more arabs... did bush had the Legal right to start this? no, dont answer yet, lets wait and see, hope no weapons to be planted by the usgovt.
dont tell me youll really be surprised?!!

chevy

March 27th, 2003, 08:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newmex
US claims that the main reason to attack Iraq is to free iraq people from Sadam, Why didnt went to cuba first, is closer and cheaper,
OOOPs , not enough oil, guess not worthy yet?

Come on open your eyes, at least show some reality, this is all about the bens, its ok to go to war when its the only way, but why such a hurry? as someone in a reply said, no news about mass destruction (that chem fact could be seen from atlanta) weapons so dont lose the point, what if no mass des weapons found, then this is illegal, what if north korea suddenly wants to help iraq, and iran and the more arabs... did bush had the Legal right to start this? no, dont answer yet, lets wait and see, hope no weapons to be planted by the usgovt.
dont tell me youll really be surprised?!! [/QUOTE

Lets talk about brains. Everybody has one , right. No , not right. You are certainly one of a kind. You were born with NO brain. If this was all about oil why are we not invading Saudia Arabia , Kuwait , or any other oil rich country? Why didn't we take all the oil we wanted after the first gulf war? Do YOU feel responsible for all those people who died on 911? I hope you do because people like you are the reason it happened. What you need to do is volunteer your services as a human shield for those poor Iraqi officials. I think it would be very funny if someone had to notify your family that you had an unfortunate accident while in Iraq. Someone had to notify the families of those innocent people on 911. That's all I want to say! I hope I wasn't too forward.

NotHome

March 28th, 2003, 04:54 AM

newmex

North Korea is a problem, but a new one created by the former president. Diplomacy will be used to take care of that situation. We have many diplomatic tools at our disposal when dealing with North Korea. China has quite a lot of influence and we hold sway over thier economy. Look what a disorganised effort has done to the French wine industry (the stuff made from grapes not the sound coming from thier gaping cake holes).

I have no problem paying for this war. I believe it is just and neccessary. As far as my loosing possesions, they are less than nothing when considering the security of my two children.

And this will help the economy long term from the increased stability in energy supply, both oil and natural gas. Did I mention natural gas, no one seems to want to say anything about that, maybe becasue Bush doesn't really have any ties to natural gas so it can't be used as propaganda against him.

NotHome

fancy pants

March 28th, 2003, 07:51 AM

All of these protesters with nothing better to do should help clean up the body parts and talk to the victims families after the next terrorist attack. Think they might feel a little differently about our proactive approach then?

vinapi

March 28th, 2003, 09:10 AM

heres is a video of the IRAQI REPUBLICAN GUARD........
what a shame:(

Sorry no URL's,that link was to a bunch of other stuff that broke the rules here at the den.

vinapi

March 28th, 2003, 09:14 AM

all the people that are against the war answer this, would you want to be in that line up? i didn't think so.......we have every right to be there!

panchero

March 28th, 2003, 10:57 AM

Crownic, the reason the TV station was targeted, was because the US could not control it.
And before you say, “it was being used as a propaganda tool” I ask you this.
Why then was it not hit before?
And What the difference from their “support your country, support your nation, support your troop” then our TV telling us the same?

Chevy,
To answer your question about why we don’t go after the others who have oil. Well my friend, US already controls it they have deals with us, they are willing to deal, trade, or sell oil. Iraq told the US “no dice chino, you aint getting none of my oil, I don’t care what you pay” and its NOT just about getting the OIL, its about Controlling the oil. Controlling who gets it and who does not.
The reason 911 happened was not cause of people like you, me or anyone else, the reason it happed was because of our foreign policies.
No one here is DEFENDING Saddom, what most folks are saying is the US was wrong for invading. For Invading IRAQ, or for INVADING any other country.
And IRAQ was not responsible for 9/11. If you believe it was, then tell me why we bombed Afghanistan.

Mouse:,
Bush never did get the votes he needed from the UN, I believe he had something like 9 of twelve or something like that. This is the reason it was taking so long to bring out the new resolution, Then they just gave up, CAUSE france or germany was going to veto it even if they did get the votes. So they didn’t have the votes to begin with, and then if they would have got them, they would have got the big “rejection”
US gov is great in putting spin on things, and this is why they blamed france for not seeking another resolution. Ask yourself, why didn’t they even try?

First off, I want to thank everyone on this site and this forum. Up until now, I had no place to vent.
I was tired of talking with people who didn’t know all the facts, or only know what was convenient to them.
Lets face it, OUR government (US) only tells us what they want us to know. And they keep the bad hidden from us.
Case and point. Sunday Iraq announced that it had POW. All that morning US denied it…
It was not until Iraq TV showed proof positive on TV that they did have POW that the US acknowledged it. As a matter of fact,US put a spin on it and denounced Iraq for airing it, and said it was a war crime. MORE was made of the Geneva convention, then the fact that there was some POW. Further more, they did not want the networks to show the video.
I saw the war crime accusation as a smoke screen, as a attempt to deter the US public from the fact that things were going bad.. “Instead of addressing the issue of POW, lets focus on the issue of war crimes” Maybe the public will forget that we too showed Iraq POW on TV.

On another note: Iraq has been under sanction for 13 yrs. However resolution 1441 was not established until November of last year. So to say Iraq had 12 years to disarm is inaccurate, its more like they had about 4 months to declare and disarm, that’s just a few weeks longer then the government gives us to file our taxes. Grant it there were other resolutions before that, but none were worded as 1441 was.

One more point I would like to make. According to BUSH, we are there to liberate the people of Iraq, so dis-arming, and 1441 are a non-issue. If you are to support BUSH and his actions, then you must stay relevant, his current reason for “invasion” is to free people, not to disarm people.

UN met wednesday (I think it was wednesday) to debate this whole Iraq thing and nothing was shown on TV about this. I saw nothing on CNN, or the other networks, no mention of it was made, Only BBC news mentioned it. I understand the debate was hot and heavy, (all against) and it was set to continue. (about 70 countries signed up to debate)
Powell walked out of the debate…..

Sure the Gov,. will TELL you (what they want you to hear) tell you that they have like 20 something countries supporting them. But what they don’t tell you is who those countries are: Places like Morocco, Kuwait, Nigeria, etc…. Little countries that were either bribed, blackmailed, or strong armed into supporting the cause.
Look what happened with Turkey. First they tried to pay them off, then they tried to strike a deal. Basically what I’m saying is that US would not even look to these countries on a normal day.

And since we are on the subject, If I remember correctly, the reason for attack on Afghanistan was because we were going after the “mastermind” of the 9/11 attack.
(Bin-Ladin) what ever happened with that? Nothing but the destruction of a country that was in bad shape to begin with.
So a few moths ago, we capture this one guy who is “the mastermind” of the sep 11 attacks.
What happened there, I thought Bin Laudin was that mastermind? If now this guy is the “mastermind” then why did we go after Bin Laudin and Afghanistan.

Let me tell you something else, when the first FBI most wanted list came out, this guy barely made the cut (I think he was #21) once they caught him, all of a sudden he’s the mastermind and became #3 or #4 on the list. (that’s looks great for the Fed)

And what happened to Afghanistan, weren’t we going to put in a democratic government there too, weren’t we liberating the people there too? What the status there?
2 years latter, nothing.. We as Americans only tend to see what we want. And what effects us, forget the rest. Oh yea, Afghanistan is also one of the supporting countries.

Whoa……… I’m getting way of the topic/subject here.
US has not presented any justifiable reason to Invade Iraq.

US is doing to Iraq, what Iraq did to Kuwait 13 yrs ago. (It was wrong then, But now that we do it now, and it’s all good)….

Freedom Fighters are terrorist when they do not fit our agenda, but Terrorist are Freedom Fighters when they do fit our political agenda.

And remember. BUSH was NOT elected president, he won the title in court

NotHome

March 28th, 2003, 11:37 AM

The reason the TV station was not taken out earlier was it was useful for info. When the info ran out, it was taken out.

The attack on 9/11 did not happen because of our foriegn policy. It happened because of our culture, the fundementalist Islamics hate us for our culture. They would have attacked us even if we did not support Isreal, or have troops stationed on "Islamic holy land" during the gulf war.

The invasion of Iraq is not retaliation for 9/11 like Afganistan was. It is a measure to prevent another 9/11 type attack.

As far as France goes, why should we seek another resolution when France insists on vetoing ANY resolution. Why waste our time.

Our showing of POW's from Afganistan does not break any laws or conventions that I know of. I have yet to see any POW corpses and no POWs were questioned on camera for public display.

Iraq did have 12 years to disarm. They were ordered to disarm as part of the cease-fire aggreements. UN 1441 was just a reiteration of those demands. When I tell my children to put their toys away I do not threaten punishment at the first request. If they do not obey my requests, they get an ultimatum before being punished. UN 1441 was the ultimatum, Sadam ignored it at his own peril.

The disarming is part of the UN resolution. Once a stable government is in power, those weapon might not be as great of a concern. But they are offensive weapons, so why would a peacefull nation need them? I know we still have nukes - but they are part of MAD and therefore a defensive weapon.

As far as the master mind behind 9/11, an operation that large takes a lot of logistics. Someone has to plan,execute and finance the attack. Each of these rolls can be done by different people and they are all just as guilty. If you pay someone to kill a third party, you still are the 'mastermind' even though you didnot planor execute the actual killing.

Freedom fighters attack military and politcal targets not civilians. Anyone who sets out to kill civilians is a terrorist, period. And the US is not above a terror attack (Japan), we just did it to try to end a war not start one.

Bush was elected president so get over it. Ever hear of the electoral college? I don't agree with it but that is the way our president is elected. Look at how ALL of the candidates campain. They use the electoral votes to their advantage. I don't like the electoral system at all, but until the constitution is ammended to change it, that's the way it is.

NotHome

Bone Daddy

March 28th, 2003, 11:46 AM

LMAO OK panchero you base all this on the fact that the gov't tells you only what it wants you to know??? So anything it says is wrong..That's your whole basis?? There was a cool TV show for folks like you called X-Files, it was quite popular alittle while ago..Please discuss facts here ...
They bombed the TV station because it was also used for troop instruction..
As far as controlling the countrites that produce oil, we already do...All oil is priced on the New York Stock exchange..Fully +80% of all oil produced travels into the US anyway...Whether piered at one of our ports or used directly by us...
nd nothome says it all no need to say more..
BTW I was there in the gulf and i believe my own eyes as to what I saw..Or did the gov't brainwash me?!?!?! The truth is out there

panchero

March 28th, 2003, 12:28 PM

So the question, for me at leaste, is what is the justification we have to go in and attack this country IRAQ?

And if the US is just in its cause why is there so much worldly outcry over these actions?

What is "MAD"?
What is "BTW"?

NotHome

March 28th, 2003, 12:41 PM

The justification is Sadam's regeme was financing terrorism and not disarming per the cease fire agreement.

The outcry is mainly from countries who have something to hide.

MAD: mutually assured destruction
BTW: by the way

NotHome

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by NotHome
The justification is Sadam's regeme was financing terrorism and not disarming per the cease fire agreement.

The outcry is mainly from countries who have something to hide.

MAD: mutually assured destruction
BTW: by the way

NotHome

That include Canada?;)

crownvic

March 28th, 2003, 03:01 PM

Panchero YES I feel like the IRAQI people have a right to be informed of whats going on.
NOW seeing that they can't recieve TV from the free world and only TV what the Government controls then they are only getting the truth according to SADA$$ and his band of THUGS.
Eventually WE will take out anything that this Murderer controls that will give him the upper hand,the TV station was just the start.:)
Weapons found in schools and hospital are totally unacceptable,he is using his own people as Human sheilds.

gandalf_thegrey

March 28th, 2003, 03:06 PM

The sad thing is that no matter what you say or show people like these three you will never get them to admit that they are wrong. We could have 1000 or more men die in bagdad with chemical or biological weapons and they will say it is our fault for going there. You are fighting a losing battle just like Saddam is.
It looks to me like a couple of the people executed in that video were women. What did they do, wave at an American just like the one they hung yesterday for waving at the troops?

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 03:23 PM

Could anyone send me a link with the REASON for this execution?

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by gandalf_thegrey
The sad thing is that no matter what you say or show people like these three you will never get them to admit that they are wrong. We could have 1000 or more men die in bagdad with chemical or biological weapons and they will say it is our fault for going there. You are fighting a losing battle just like Saddam is.
It looks to me like a couple of the people executed in that video were women. What did they do, wave at an American just like the one they hung yesterday for waving at the troops?
Anytime you want to start debating with FACT AND ONLY FACT, let me know I’ll be glad to play. My posts are based in things that I can back up.:R

Bone Daddy

March 28th, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by dssdog
Well at least your not listening to Rush. We do however have to work on your listening to Savage. Do your homework on him and you’ll find out what a fraud he is.:)

I was using this as a simplistic comparison to your oil comment. Things are a little more complicated then that. You do realize that the US will never see direct money from Iraq’s oil. The UN and the Arab countries will never let that happen. Face it, the good old American tax dollar will be paying for this war.

I for one will never complain about the price of gas. The company I work for pays for all of my fuel.
In the big picture, you never know when caribou will hold the key curing a disease. It’s not that I want to cuddle a caribou, but once you drive a plant or an animal into extinction you will never find its full potential.

I see all this conjecture backed up by fact???

crownvic

March 28th, 2003, 04:11 PM

Well the Fact is that Saddam is trying to defend himself by shooting missiles at public targets.
Shopping mall in Kuwait City,it won't be long Folks before all these countries that have abstained from this War will be along side the rest of the coalition.
The last couple of days have really shown this Murderers true colors,which we already knew of course.

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
I see all this conjecture backed up by fact???
You’re a smart guy, go to the top of your browser and click the “search” icon. Next put in the name Michael Weiner, (that’s Savages real name). After that, click that icon again and put in the BBC, now it’s going to get tricky, you’ll have to search that site and find the UN policy regarding IRAQ. After that, click that search icon again and put in “Iraq spending request” look around and you’ll see how much the commander and thief is asking for. As for my employer, you’ll have to take my word for it, (they also pay for my car). If any of this gets confusing let me know!
Almost forgot, you also have to read, (that’s were you find the facts).:o

vinapi

March 28th, 2003, 04:58 PM

crownvic sorry about the link, i never looked at the website, i only
watched the video. (sorry).....!

i couldn't tell if there was a woman there or not, it just makes me sick to know that this is happening in the world! i'm just thankful to god that i was born here and not some cruel place where if you say the wrong remark or opinion you'll be tortured or excuted by your government! honestly, i hope the usa goes beyond iraq when their finished!

gandalf_thegrey

March 28th, 2003, 04:58 PM

you also have to read, (that’s were you find the facts).

I guess that depends on where you read your facts.
Funny how the BBC's own field reporter is complaining about them not reporting what he is sending them.

Bone Daddy

March 28th, 2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by dssdog
You’re a smart guy, go to the top of your browser and click the “search” icon. Next put in the name Michael Weiner, (that’s Savages real name). After that, click that icon again and put in the BBC, now it’s going to get tricky, you’ll have to search that site and find the UN policy regarding IRAQ. After that, click that search icon again and put in “Iraq spending request” look around and you’ll see how much the commander and thief is asking for. As for my employer, you’ll have to take my word for it, (they also pay for my car). If any of this gets confusing let me know!
Almost forgot, you also have to read, (that’s were you find the facts).:o

OK you said alot but didn't answer my reply...Try being less smug and read what you post...You drew 2 outrageous analogies and when called on it acted like a child...Caribou ring a bell?:eek:

chevy

March 28th, 2003, 06:59 PM

Everyone knew Osama and his followers were a threat to the U.S. years ago. He pulled some nasty stunts when Clinton was president. If good old Bill went after Osama in Afghanastan a few years ago people would have said why are we going to war with a country over 1 man. After 911 everyone thought it was ok to go to war with a country over that 1 man. It would have been a good Idea to remove that threat sooner than we are doing it. Now everyone ( everyone with common sense ) knows Iraq is funding these hate groups that want to hurt innocent people. How many people have to die before we do something. If we know it's coming we can try to prevent it.

crownvic

March 28th, 2003, 07:10 PM

vinapi...
That's ok,
I edited it out because of some of it's content,i'm sure it was an honest mistake.

dssdog you have your opinion on this matter and that is perfectly fine for you to voice it,however please try to refrain from personal insults. People may see things differently than you so that does not make you smarter than the other person. I am kinda enjoying reading the mixed opinions and don't want to close this thread but I don't really want it to get personal.

gunner99

March 28th, 2003, 07:22 PM

The world couldn't take the chance of letting him stay in power any longer. Even if there were no weapons of mass destruction at this time. The entire world could not afford to take the chance and wait for a smoking gun. Anyone protesting this war make me sick. I can understand protesting the war before it started. That's their right. But now we have troops over there. Mostly young kids who probably signed up to pay for college. They're scaired, and doing their best to represent their country and free Iraqis. We should stand behind these troops no matter what the outcome.

crownvic

March 28th, 2003, 07:35 PM

NotHome

March 28th, 2003, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by dssdog
That include Canada?;)

What part of mainly is unclear?
And if you want to go there, yes Canada does have a financial stake in this war. The US gets a large amount of oil and natural gas from Canada at prices inflated by the instability of the middle east. A stable supply of cheap oil/natural gas from Iraq could cause some money problems for Canada.

Do I believe that Canada is against the war for these reasons - Hell No!. You will not believe any of this either way, so it doesn't matter if it is based in truth or speculation

NotHome

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 08:13 PM

You guys are right, I have seen the light!

dssdog

March 28th, 2003, 08:15 PM

ozzy67

March 28th, 2003, 08:27 PM

Dssdog, is your real name "Tom Daschle"?:K

NotHome

March 28th, 2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by dssdog
You guys are right, I have seen the light!

No rebuttal - I expected some idea on your position.
Do you agree that Canada actually does have good reason (money) to be against this war?

If that is not the reason they are against the war it should be one of the reasons, you do have to look out for number one. Canada does not have it's 'hand in the cookie jar' as far as I know, so if it wants to keep profits up that's just the way it goes.

NotHome

stuffy

March 29th, 2003, 09:09 AM

Just like in the states, those of us in Canada disagree with the way that Chretien - the PM - stated the cause. He should have said that we will not be able to send any of our troops there because they are still in Afghanistan and our ships are currently in foreign waters. We do have some military men/women who are currently "embedded" with the US/UK/... troops that are in Iraq. Besides, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH OF A MILITARY DEFENSE.

Instead, Creton just came out and said "Canada will not be involved with the war in Iraq". He has about as much diplomacy as a slug. For that I apologize to the US and all the people over there that are working together to accomplish the goal of securing peace in an area that has never known peace. OUR wonderful "leader" seems to be directing our country to become a part of the European Union, rather than be a friend to the US.

Why is this - I don't know for sure. Creaton is french - maybe that explains it. You in the states probably don't know that Creaton has also decided to spend millions on making EVERYONE in Canada become bilingual - speaking FRENCH as a second language. Can you imagine if after electing BUSH he decided to force you guys to all speak Spanish as a second language!!! It just would not happen in the states, but sadly it has happened here....

READ MY LIPS USA - MOST OF CANADA IS WITH YOU - BESIDE YOU - AND SUPPORTING YOU IN WHATEVER WAY WE CAN!!!

Of course, just like in the US, we have those who oppose just about anything and everything, but they are in the minority. Usually they are unable to listen to all sides of the situation and then make a decision about whatever the issue is. Instead they talk things to death in committee after committee spending millions of dollars senselessly never accomplishing anything.

US = doers
CANADA = Let's create a committee.... :confused:

ozzy67

March 29th, 2003, 03:49 PM

Us Americans still love you Canadians, after all, yall did give us the PIRATEDEN.

:cool:

MercurE1

March 29th, 2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by ozzy67
Dssdog, is your real name "Tom Daschle"?:K

Not sure if anyone had seen this but i thought it was freaking hilarious.

Merc

Overclocked

March 30th, 2003, 01:06 AM

The picture about sums it up. Just a quick question - How many nations in the past have asked the UN for permission to act militarily? I thought the only reason the UN was approached was to ask that it enforce its resolutions. Now, as for me (and I suspect the majority of us) this letter captures my feelings as an American in this liberal hell:

Bad American (http://www.mikeonline.com/events/badamerican.html)

L8r-
Overclock

NotHome

March 31st, 2003, 10:46 AM

Overclocked

I guess I'm a bad american also.

NotHome

newmex

March 31st, 2003, 09:45 PM

Sometimes things are clearer when told by someone else, so i´ll quote some people that have no post here, but are important:

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." A.Lincoln
"Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it nothing can succeed." Abraham Lincoln
"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." Abraham Lincoln

"More than an end to war, we want an end to the beginnings of all wars" Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both."
- Eleanor Roosevelt

"All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse" Benjamin Franklin

"The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times" U S. Grant

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." Jhon Adams

"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings" JFK
"But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people. So let us not rest all our hopes on parchment and on paper, let us strive to build peace, a desire for peace, a willingness to work for peace in the hearts and minds of all of our people. I believe that we can. I believe the problems of human destiny are not beyond the reach of human beings." JFK
"Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind" JFK
"Those who make peaceful revolutions impossible will make violent revolutions inevitable" JFK
"When written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters - one represents danger, and the other represents opportunity" JFK

"When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and we knew exactly who the "they" were. 'It was us versus them. And it was clear who "them" was.... Today, we're not so sure who the "they"are,' he continued, pausing as giggles began emanating from the crowd. 'But we know they're there.'"
George W. bush

And the most interesting one of all:

[B]If Jack's in love, he's no judge of Jill's beauty Benjamin Franklin

MercurE1

March 31st, 2003, 10:27 PM

Here's one from Dennis Miller
Its a forward going around thought you would get a kick out of it

TRYING TO HELP - BY DENNIS MILLER

ALL THE RHETORIC ON WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD GO TO WAR AGAINST IRAQ HAS GOT
MY INSANE LITTLE BRAIN SPINNING LIKE A ROULETTE WHEEL. I ENJOY READING
OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES BUT I HAVE DETECTED A HINT OF CONFUSION FROM SOME
OF YOU.

AS I WAS READING THE PAPER RECENTLY, I WAS REMINDED OF THE BEST ADVICE
SOMEONE EVER GAVE ME. HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE KISS METHOD ("KEEP IT SIMPLE,
STUPID!) SO, WITH THIS AS A THEME, I'D LIKE TO APPLY THIS THEORY FOR THOSE
WHO DON'T QUITE GET IT. MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN SIMPLIFY THINGS A BIT AND
RECOGNIZE A FEW IMPORTANT FACTS.

HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT
ISSUE:

1) OUT OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY.

2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING KEEP THIS
IN MIND, THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND IRAQ
HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE.

3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES,"YOUR
REPLY WILL BE "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?"

4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTIWAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT
FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION
YOU DESERVE.

5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY
TRY TO KILL US.

6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE PLAYS ONE
ON TV

7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTIWAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL!" AND BIN LADEN WANTS
YOU DEAD, TOO!

8) IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY" BUT NOT IN THE DANGER
THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER DUDE.

9) WE ARE NOT TRYING TO LIBERATE THEM.

10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN AND
WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL
NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION.

I HOPE THIS HELPS.

ozzy67

April 1st, 2003, 07:44 AM

What I am already seeing as day by day we see more justification for this war against Sadaam is that unfortunately(for the anti-war stance) the point of view against this war will not stand up to the test of time.
History will record this war as a war for the good of the Iraqi people and that is the bottom line.
No one in the future will say"Oh I wish they had never have taken down Sadaam!" JMO

God bless the Marines and their dangerous mission on the ground in Iraq

slush

April 1st, 2003, 11:47 PM

ive been following this thread for a few days and finally had to say somthing.
first off im a american,i support my elected president bush,and our brave soldiers in iraq.buts lets face it the only reason france and germany oppose this war is oil,they have agreements with sadas$ for it.but if not for france we would be speaking the queens english,so helping them with germany twice settles the score for me now its even time to start anew.however saying they never win a war is false while napoline may not of won all of his battles he did win a few of them agianst greater odds.
but our govt does only let us know what they want us to hear,in the 50s we put radioactive matiral in california airconditioning vents just to see what would happen with the way it dispersed thru the air putting kids a risk of cancer later on.it wasent until the 90s that we found out what they did to us.there is no telling what other experements they did to us or to other countrys.
im not a conspireciy buff im just saying what is fact about our country.
the reason for 911 was bin lardas$ was pissed off becuase after helping them win with russia we turned our backs on them and left them to fend for themselves when they wernt ready for it after we promised them help forming a new govt.
thats how the usa does things when we get what we want f*** you.
you may agree with me or not this is just my opion on things.

NotHome

April 2nd, 2003, 06:08 AM

Slush

France played a small part in the American Revolution, we would not be speaking the Queens English even if France did not help. A battle won is still not a war, but Frances military might is not in question here, it is only a joke to blow off steam over the real issue. France was putting money above world security and pointing the finger (middle above all) at us for looking out for our security. France and Germany don't want to loose their cheap oil source and then blame the US for going into this for oil.

Our Government is made up of people, just like ever other, and being so is imperfect. We have done terrible things in the past but nothing on the scale of what Sadam is doing. Yes, we do some stuff just for ourselves, but doesn't every other country? Maybe we should pull all of our foriegn aid and see what happens. Hell, we were taking flack when we threatened to pull aid in order to get support, and this was from our own media. It's our money so if you don't help us you get nothing - what's wrong with that.

As far as 9/11, if you can say with a straight face that even one of the victims deserved to die you are in serious need of help. Attacking a purely civilian target is terrorism. The attacks on the USS Cole and the Embassies could be classified as an act of war because of the nature of the target. The attack on the Pentagon would have been an act of war if a civilian filled aircraft had not been used.
We were attacked simply because we are not Muslim and support Isreal. This is a war not only on terrorism but a war for our basic constitutional rights.

NotHome

phoztech

April 2nd, 2003, 06:19 AM

one thing that amazes me is that people against this war think that a majority of the world is against it... where they get this idea i dont know. I guess its cause they see protestors on tv.

granted the same thing could be said for those for the war except less press coverage. cause lets face it someone not causeing a stir/disruption is not really news.

I would like to see a national(usa only vote) vote done .. not a poll but a real vote. then i would like to see a world vote also. i think it would be interesting to see were other ountries really stood and not just what the media tells us.

Bone Daddy

April 2nd, 2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by ozzy67
What I am already seeing as day by day we see more justification for this war against Sadaam is that unfortunately(for the anti-war stance) the point of view against this war will not stand up to the test of time.
History will record this war as a war for the good of the Iraqi people and that is the bottom line.
No one in the future will say"Oh I wish they had never have taken down Sadaam!" JMO

God bless the Marines and their dangerous mission on the ground in Iraq

I wish your view would come true...but alas these folks will probably say history is written by the winner and find some excuse to hang onto their fantasy...The US built those chemical factories just to bomb them themselves...They put mind controlling drugs in the MRE's(meals ready to eat) to make the soldiers believe they didn't see them missles, or torture chambers...Or the satellite photos of those terrorist factions camping out in Iraq??

newmex

April 6th, 2003, 11:04 PM

no weapons of mass destruction been used, or sadam is good in tolerance or he doesnt have them.
funny how threads develope, not many people answered the main question, its a moral question, hope you all noticed that, nobody in 100 replies think its posible that bush is wrong, or doing what many usa presidents in the past have done, lie to their people, today things are different the world is much more connected and the truth will prevail, history will tell. thanks all for the replies this has been really interesting.

ozzy67

April 6th, 2003, 11:13 PM

On the contrary, the main question was "have the Iraqi people been tortured and killed and raped and starved by a cruel regime?"
As we speak the coalition has won this war and the Iraqi people can now live like their neighbors in Kuwait and have some dignity, YESS!! COURTESY OF THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION.
Tell me this and this phase of this debate will come to a close.
Are not starvation, rape, torture killings, beating, and everything else Saddam did to his own people be considered weapons of mass destruction???

mouse01

April 7th, 2003, 08:36 AM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. forces near Baghdad found a weapons cache of around 20 medium-range missiles equipped with potent chemical weapons, the U.S. news station National Public Radio reported on Monday.

NPR, which attributed the report to a top official with the 1st Marine Division, said the rockets, BM-21 missiles, were equipped with sarin and mustard gas and were "ready to fire." It quoted the source as saying new U.S. intelligence data showed the chemicals were "not just trace elements."

It said the cache was discovered by Marines with the 101st Airborne Division, which was following up behind the Army after it seized Baghdad's international airport.

U.S. Central Command headquarters in Qatar had no immediate comment.

The United States and Britain launched the war against Iraq (news - web sites) to rid the country of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq denies having such weapons.

NotHome

April 7th, 2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by newmex
no weapons of mass destruction been used, or sadam is good in tolerance or he doesnt have them.
funny how threads develope, not many people answered the main question, its a moral question, hope you all noticed that, nobody in 100 replies think its posible that bush is wrong, or doing what many usa presidents in the past have done, lie to their people, today things are different the world is much more connected and the truth will prevail, history will tell. thanks all for the replies this has been really interesting.

Yes, Sadam has not used any weapons of mass destruction, but who says he didn't want to use them. If it is true that he was killed or injured at the beginning of hostilities, then he may not have been in the position to order them used.
If you look around the world, every country's leaders have at one time lied to their people. The US doesn't have a monopoly on this. And if you think the Iraqi information ministry is telling the truth, God,I want some of what your smoking.

Yes, the truth will prevail as will the USA

NotHome

MercurE1

April 7th, 2003, 12:10 PM

News reporting site finds substances that test positive for chemical weapons in initial testing.

newmex

April 12th, 2003, 09:05 PM

|Up°|
No wmd found yet!

xsforce

April 13th, 2003, 08:21 AM

News reporting site finds substances that test positive for chemical weapons in initial testing.
No Merc. Bush said the reason for this war is to disarm Iraq. Where are all of these WMD Bush was talking about? That huge cache of arms (rifles, grenades etc.) was not WMD! Nice try though.

ozzy67

April 13th, 2003, 10:29 AM

One word there Xsforce. SYRIA.

cleancards

April 13th, 2003, 03:40 PM

ozzy67 I would have to disagree with you and I would have to say two words......
Syria
Iran

LOL !

ozzy67

April 13th, 2003, 06:17 PM

Syria will be complicated.
Syria will not fold as easily as Iraq, they have the most militant terrorists on the face of the earth.
No one knows including me just how evil this regime in Syria is.
These people are 75% of the problem in the West Bank and historical writings(politically correct for BIBLE) indicate that there will be a great conflict in this region.
If and when we go into Syria, it will be a take no prisoners stance and we sure as hell will not be liberaters.
Syria will be something none of us are prepared for and it will be PLENTY SCARY!!!
The people that hated the Iraqi war cant even fathom what Syria is going to look like and I am not looking forward to it either for our troops but the future of peace in the Middle East might require this incursion.

For all the peace protesters, before you crack your nuckles and start firing at me , STUDY YOUR HIGH SCHOOL HISTORY.

xsforce

April 13th, 2003, 06:44 PM

So you guys think that Bush will go into Syria?

ozzy67

April 13th, 2003, 07:03 PM

Xsforce, greetings from the Carolinas.
The answer to your question is yes im afraid.
The man that runs Syria is a HARDCORE terrorist and has a blatant disregard for peace in every sense of the word.
I know that sometomes I make very blunt statements, but I sware I would not intentionally lie to you.
My family has always watched the news from the Middle East and Israel since I can remember and Syria has all down through History
been a bloodthirsty bunch.
A TWIST COMES WITH SYRIA.
Russia will automatically support us(probably in secret though) in our effort against the terrorist nation that is Syria.
Russia wants us to do their dirty work in Syria so they can gain influence in the West Bank.(have I blown your mind yet)
Russia has a GREAT INTEREST in Israel and will use us to weaken Syria's terorrist hold on the West Bank(remember, Russia always thinks ahead about five to ten years).
Pay attention in the coming months and years because some interesting things are going to happen around the West Bank.

NotHome

April 14th, 2003, 05:36 AM

I agree about Syria, the place really needs to be erased as there is no real infrastucture of peace to work with. Syria is just a warren of terrorist support so if you topple the current government, who replaces it? Just more of the same. Iraq is not the place that will bring terrorism home, Syria is. If we attack them, we will see Isreal brought home.

Ozzy,
Not only the Bible but much of the earlier writings speak about both Syria and Iraq. The area has always been trouble and will remain that way until the end days. I never really did study this stuff much but too much is said about those regions to ignore.

NotHome

scavenger

April 14th, 2003, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by NotHome
I agree about Syria, the place really needs to be erased as there is no real infrastucture of peace to work with. Syria is just a warren of terrorist support so if you topple the current government, who replaces it? Just more of the same. Iraq is not the place that will bring terrorism home, Syria is. If we attack them, we will see Isreal brought home.

Ozzy,
Not only the Bible but much of the earlier writings speak about both Syria and Iraq. The area has always been trouble and will remain that way until the end days. I never really did study this stuff much but too much is said about those regions to ignore.

NotHome

"Now" very well could be the beginnings of the end days NotHome....There are prophecies in the Kuran in regards to Jihad...Islamic religion believes it is God's will so why would the followers not welcome this unholy war.... ( the teachings of the bible are the true enemy of the kuran's religion) this hatred has been going on ever since Esau(the father of Islam) sold his birthright to his younger brother Jacob(who is now called Israel)

The Islamic religion breeds more fanatical terrorism than any other religion and that is where the root of the problem remains and always will....And anyone taking a religiously politically correct attitude is not addressing the problem.
This was brushed aside in the early days of the war when that Muslim US soldier (Ansar) I beleive his name was tossed a grenade into the tents of his sleeping fellow troops (killing 2)...They News tried to cover it over calling him a disgruntled soldier and making up other excuses for his actions...I say bull..call it like it is ..He tossed that grenade for one reason only... Because of his Muslim faith.
Troubled times are ahead and It certainly looks as though the world will soon welcome any solution to all the troubles in the middle east and everywhere for that matter. The bible has prophecy about the rise of a new world leader offering a remedy of peace for the situation the world is in.. And If you thought Hitler and Saddam were evil..well this guy will have a lot more blood on his hands than anyone we've ever seen before...he will be a great deceiver.

xsforce

April 14th, 2003, 10:22 AM

I'm sure if no WMD is found, some will be planted!!!!!!!! Bush cannot afford to not find some! He talked tooooooo much about disarming Saddam of WMD! If they can't find any he would be persecuted by every nation on the planet! It wouldn't be the first time the US pulled a con to justify their BS!!!

scavenger

April 14th, 2003, 10:50 AM

that is why Bush should have just said in the first place....

Saddam you are an evil man who is abusing the power you have towards the Iraqi people,and you are a threat to the safety of the US and the rest of the world.. So your going down dude...

But everyone is sooo concerned about being politically correct it has confused the real issue..

gandalf_thegrey

April 14th, 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by xsforce
I'm sure if no WMD is found, some will be planted!!!!!!!! Bush cannot afford to not find some! He talked tooooooo much about disarming Saddam of WMD! If they can't find any he would be persecuted by every nation on the planet! It wouldn't be the first time the US pulled a con to justify their BS!!!

Do you seriously think in todays world of global information that Bush has the power to do this? Sorry man but that is a little too paranoid. He has every country in the world looking for him to do that and there is no way possible he could.

ozzy67

April 14th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Xsforce evidentally does not believe that Saddam was a threat to anyone.
His speculations place any weight of responsibility on President Bush.
Xsforce underestimates Saddam in his ability to Take his wmd's to Syria, and other countries.
Have patience with Xsforce, he will see the truth and the truth will set him free OR when they find these weapons it will be Bush that planted them and we should give Saddam the benefit of the doubt.
Sooner or later Xsforce will have to realize that Saddam was evil and Bush, however naive as some believe did what was good for the free world.
A man cant beat a dead horse forever, and the wmd issue no longer is an issue to the Iraqi people.

Bush was successful no matter how you slice it, that is the facts.

NotHome

April 14th, 2003, 07:16 PM

When you ask how long a liberal can beat a dead horse you need to ask a few questions.
1) Is there a social program to train people to beat a dead horse properly? If not we need to create one.

2) Who is tracking the affirmative action programs for the BADH program? We would not want to effect the minority horses in a demeaning manner by not beating them first. Create an oversight commitee.

3) After beating the dead horse, is it a productive member of society? No, a dead horse worker retraining program must be immediately implimented.

4) Is there any tax money left over after all the programs? Yes, we haven't done enough so create a commitee to find new ways to beat the horse. If there is no more money, blame the conservatives for being tight-wad racists for not being in tune with the needs of dead horses across America.

God help our wallets if they find gay-lesbian, hispanic, cross-dressing illegal alien dead horses.

NotHome

ozzy67

April 14th, 2003, 09:44 PM

In the words of President Bush "hei, hei, hei, hei!!!

xsforce

April 16th, 2003, 03:35 PM

No WMDs yet? "Hmmmm........ I wonder where I left those darned things!!!"

ozzy67

April 16th, 2003, 03:40 PM

Ive already answered that question Xsforce SYRIA.
Have patience dude, you will get what you wish for.

newmex

April 16th, 2003, 10:36 PM

atacking syria is complicated cause iran will get involved helping syria, the US is urged to start pumping oil from iraq since reserves are running low, so it´s probably a not good idea to do so (atack syria)soon, first iraq need to be controlled and Up and running, maybe a special forces select attack to retrieve sadamm, but this point is too hot right now, so my guess is that he is more likely in russia or somewhere else.
the WMD are syrian and been there for a long time. by the way more WMD can be found in israel.

ozzy67

April 17th, 2003, 06:09 AM

Newmex, Israel is a PEACEFULL nation and in order to exist must keep nuclear weapons(wmd).
Im not going to get going on this point, but realize that Israel is confronted on all sides by blood thirsty regimes who worship "Mohammed" not Jesus the Prince of Peace.
Im not going to follow up on this and this is just my beliefs and mine alone, but remember this coming Sunday we will not be celebrating "Mohammed" risen again.
The only thing Mohammed ever celebrated was violence in my opinion.
OK, Ive said to much.

newmex

April 18th, 2003, 06:33 PM

, but realize that Israel is confronted on all sides by blood thirsty regimes
i agree on that, what could happen if not all, but a small part of those weapons get in the wrong hands, after all everybody knows where they are and that they DO really exist!!
If everybody dissarms in the region, after that occurs, and i guess at the end, Israel should do the same, so this be a truly WMD free area! for me that is a fair plan, dont ask me what you wont do!

ozzy67

April 18th, 2003, 07:15 PM

Newmex, Israel has a TIGHT security apparatus that is almost unpenetrable.
If Israel's military security could somehow be breached, trust me, the terrorists that they are surrounded by would have found a way to get to their weapons.
The only reason that Israel is still in tact is because they are a smart bunch.
I will give you an example.
Israel teaches our FBI and CIA how to manage security in America.
Their airlines are also a good example of just how meticulous they are at security.
The suicide bombers know that the only way to strike Israel is by vehicle.
Have you heard about their missle defense(whichPresident Bush was given by Israel)? It has an accuracy 100% better than ours.
Im not saying that it couldnt be breached, but it would be very hard if not literally impossible.
As far as Israel destroying their wmd's, they would be attacked from all sides.
I dont understand it myself, but Israel does not have many friends in the world and is considered even by Russia(yes, Russia) to be one of the most sought after pieces of real estate in the Middle East.

EDIT: Let me add this: Israel's missle defense system (CODENAME "ARROW") is only two years old.
That is why Saddam was able to get Scud missles into Israeli airspace in the first gulf war.

scavenger

April 18th, 2003, 08:21 PM

Ozzy here is something to consider why Israel may be so sought after...This is not my interpretation but take it whatever way you like...it makes some sense though I think

http://www.nessenergy.com/

ozzy67

April 18th, 2003, 08:53 PM

I have read some concerning the possibility of oil in Israel.
I would venture to guess that there are vast reserves of oil in Israel.
TheRed Sea is also full of untold riches and the country also is home to some of the smartest people on the face of the earth.
Israel is a giant in the field of electronics and they are big in the high tech industry.
Everything they do is twice the quality and precision of most countries.
They are a big reason for our success in the world because they share their knowledge with us because we are their chief ally and I say we should always defend them as if they were our own, they would always stand ready to do that for us.

newmex

April 20th, 2003, 04:48 PM

_-Update-_
Not Even Sniff Of WMDs Found In Iraq: Independent
20.04.2003 [22:24]

Four weeks have already passed since the U.S. and U.K. waged their illegal war on Iraq to disarm Iraqi president Saddam Hussein from alleged weapons of mass destruction, the menace to the entire world. So where are they? Asked a respected British newspaper Sunday, April 20.

As the world is being distracted by the scenes of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, children maimed at play, looting of time-honored museums and unprecedented anarchy, The Independent is keen on placing the proclaimed purpose of this war on center stage.

“But, Mr. Blair, where are they? A month has passed since American and British troops entered Iraq, more than a week since the fall of Baghdad. But thus far not even a sniff. Not a drum of VX or mustard gas, not a phial of anthrax, not a shred of evidence that Iraq was assembling a nuclear weapons program,” the daily wrote.

The mass-circulation paper said that U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell presentation before the U.N. Security Council two months ago was nothing but a charade.

“The charts, the grainy intelligence satellite pictures, the crackly tapes of the intercepted phone conversations among Iraqi officials? How plausible it all sounded, especially when propounded by the most plausible figure in the Bush administration.

“And what about those other claims, wheeled out on various occasions by Messrs Bush, Blair, Cheney and Rumsfeld? The Iraqi drones that were supposed to be able to attack the U.S. east coast, the imports of aluminum tubes allegedly intended for centrifuges to enrich uranium, the unaccounted-for lethal nerve and germ agents,” it said.

“All, it seems, egregious products of the imagination of the intelligence services – one commodity whose existence need never be doubted.”

Never Trust Your Leaders Again

The Independent said the British people and the American have been fooled by their leaders and believed that the U.S.-led troops would “liberate Iraq.”

It said that U.S. and U.K. officials give their fabricated reasons “from behind their comfortable screen of anonymity,” noting that were pretty sure that “their reasonable and trusting people, mostly accepted the word of their rulers.”

“Oh yes, we know a lot more, but if we told you, we would be showing our hand to Saddam and endangering precious intelligence sources.

“Just believe us, old boy, the Government told us, and you'll see we were right all along,” it said.

The paper further said that if the U.S. and U.K. allegations were right, so why did not Saddam use “his WMDs” to deter the invaders?

“Indeed, it collapses at the first serious examination. Why should Saddam part with his most effective means of defense, when the survival of his regime and himself was on the line?” It wondered.

Well, Saddam is now gone, it added, and with him has disappeared any conceivable risk to those intelligence sources (assuming they ever existed).

“So just what was this information on the basis of which Washington and its faithful ally launched an unprovoked invasion of a ramshackle third world country? A country with a very nasty regime to be sure, but not a great deal nastier than some other potential candidates for “liberation” in the Middle East and elsewhere,” it said.

“If only for the credibility and reputation of our country, this newspaper hopes that enough weapons of mass destruction will be discovered to justify a war that has grievously weakened the UN, strained the Atlantic alliance and split the European Union.

The paper concluded its editorial by saying that the Bush administration and Prime Minister Tony Blair should provide their hard evidence on their claims or they would be held accountable for waging illegal war.

“Having rushed into war to suit its own military and domestic electoral timetable, the Bush administration now has the nerve to claim that a year may be required to establish the whereabouts of the WMDs.

“This pointless war cannot be un-made. If no "smoking gun" has turned up by then, a full parliamentary inquiry is essential – into the competence and accountability of the intelligence services, and into how our Government used them to sell a mistaken and reckless policy,” it said.

ozzy67

April 20th, 2003, 05:10 PM

I have explained this several times in these recent posts, I will try again.
First, even if there is no WMD's in Iraq. it was in our national interest to take down Saddam. agreed??
Second-Taking out Saddam gained Israel(which I support) a needed foothold in their war against terrorism.
Three-SADDAM IS GONE!!!
Four- We kicked butt and are stronger for it.
I dont know about you or where you are from or how old you are, but my Father always told me that the Middle East was full of terrorists and our government has never had the guts to confront it, so if the only way for us to get our FOOT in the terrorists back yard was to go into Iraq, then that is justified.
Five- whether or not there is WMD's in Iraq, I believe the operation was a SUCCESS based on the first four reasons I have stated.:D

xsforce

April 20th, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by ozzy67
I have explained this several times in these recent posts, I will try again.
First, even if there is no WMD's in Iraq. it was in our national interest to take down Saddam. agreed??

Nope.

ozzy67

April 20th, 2003, 06:00 PM

Thats not what The Iraqi people said.

xsforce

April 20th, 2003, 06:02 PM

I'm glad for the Iraqi people but I didn't know it was the US's job to go over there and liberate them.

ozzy67

April 20th, 2003, 06:12 PM

Well, chalk it up to a learning experience.
Are you waiting on someone else to do it?
If you followed world events BEFORE the Iraqi war, you would know that the Middle east has no stomach for spending their oil money on liberating their enslaved neighbors, they leave that to us to do that.
I dont know if you noticed this, but that is not an opinion thats a fact man.
I do believe though that there IS one place they might try to liberate, but the Israeli people wouldnt stand for that, now would they?

Happy Easter, Xsforce I see that you are high on them boiled eggs you ate today(you know, protein and all):D

Lithium666

April 20th, 2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by ozzy67
Thats not what The Iraqi people said.

I guess you missed that huge demonstration telling the coallition to get the F**K out!!!!!!

It's amazing how a couple of thou Iraqi's boo the coalition and our media/gov says they were scared of Saddam. Armed malitia, etc.

A couple of thou Iraqi's cheer the coalition (out of a city of millions) and they claim the Iraqi's are jubilant. Well could these not be the same people that were afraid off Sadams boys now afraid of the armed coalition troops????????

The simple fact is the biggest demonstration (by FAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) has been against the coalition presence.

Bush has set a precedent justifying pre-emptive action WITHOUT glabal support. I fail to see how this is in our interest. Whats to stop other nations following suit now???????

ozzy67

April 20th, 2003, 06:31 PM

These people are worried that we are going to leave them standing and not help them like we did in 1991.
I dont think you will see us do that this time and as far as the Iraqi people go they would have to be blind to think that they are worse off without Saddam.
We will just have to wait and see now wont we.

junglemike

April 20th, 2003, 06:34 PM

Whats to stop other nations following suit now???????

------------------------------------------------------
WE WILL , people need to learn , what we want , we get,come up against us and see what happens. we will always be the head dog in the junkyard , i personally think we were too easy on them

JM

newmex

April 20th, 2003, 06:38 PM

First, even if there is no WMD's in Iraq. it was in our national interest to take down Saddam. agreed?? OZZY67

lets look at news before war:
In the begining the war was about the WMD:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/09/powell.transcript/index.html

Wednesday, October 9, 2002 Posted: 8:54 PM EDT (0054 GMT)
(CNN) -- CNN's Larry King talked with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell Wednesday night about Iraqui terrorism
KING: A great general once told me, Chappy James -- I know you knew him well -- that no one hates war more than a warrior. You've been a warrior. Do you fear the possibility that if military action does occur it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and Iraq then uses its chemical weapons on a state like Israel?
POWELL: War should never be a self-fulfilling prophecy. It should always be a deliberate act by people acting rationally, hopefully. And in this case, as the president said the other night, we are trying to see war as a last resort.
There is a way to avoid war, but it must include the disarmament of Saddam Hussein, taking away his weapons of mass destruction and the capability to produce them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,76915,00.html

Tuesday, January 28, 2003
Bush Says Saddam 'Deceiving Not Disarming' in State of Union Address

WASHINGTON — Building a case for war against Iraq, President Bush said Tuesday night he will present fresh evidence to the United Nations next week of Saddam Hussein's illegal weapons and vowed the United States will lead a campaign to disarm the Iraqi regime if he refuses to surrender its arms
"The course of this nation does not depend on the decision of others," Bush said in his second State of the Union address.
"We will consult, but let there be no misunderstanding: If Saddam Hussein does not fully disarm for the safety of our people, and for the peace of the world, we will lead a coalition to disarm him," the president said.
Specifically, Bush said Saddam has not accounted for up to 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulism toxin, 500 tons of sarin, mustard gas and VX nerve agent and upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical weapons.
Bush said Saddam has shown "his utter contempt" for the United Nations and must be brought to account unless he disarms.
"The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary, he is deceiving," the president said.
Among his charges:
-- The British government has learned that Saddam recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
-- Three Iraqi defectors say Iraq had several mobile biological weapons labs in the 1990s that are now not accounted for.
Powell will allege that not only was Iraq hiding chemical and biological weapons from U.N. inspectors but smuggling in technology for long-range missile and nuclear weapons programs, a senior U.S. official said.

As today the militar operations had been a great success, troops are coming back and PoWs are free,im really glad about that, but let´s just dont loose the starting point, this was never about freeing iraq, it was about the WMD, that by the way havent been found yet.

ozzy67

April 20th, 2003, 06:48 PM

On the contrary, it is no longer about the Wmd's(at least not on Saddam's part).
I will try to explain this one more time.
This war was about more than just Wmd's, no matter what Powell or Bush said.(startling revelation??)
I believe it is time to just accept the fact that we did what we did and whoever wants to challenge that fact can.
It is obvious that some do not feel that it was our responsibility to free the Iraqi people and how can I debate that??
Whether or not there is Wmd's in Iraq is a lost point now, even though I think that anyone who thinks he NEVER HAD THEM is lacking insight.

xsforce

April 20th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Happy Easter, Xsforce I see that you are high on them boiled eggs you ate today(you know, protein and all)
How'd you know? Low carb rules! Happy easter!

Lithium666

April 20th, 2003, 07:34 PM

The primary justification given was this war is about WMD.

This cannot now be dismissed as a secondary concern.

Bush cannot talk about liberation with allies such as Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan. Not to mention Iraq being an allie not to long ago (Saddam Hussain and all).

Originally posted by ozzy67
I believe it is time to just accept the fact that we did what we did and whoever wants to challenge that fact can.

What we essentially did was invasion/regime change. This sets a very clear precedent. Will you accept other nations taking advantage of this.

For example:

India going into Pakistan?
Arab nations going into Israel because they dont like the current Israeli regime?
Country X going into Saudi Arabia to liberate the Saudi's and bring them free speech and democracy?
Country Y going into Kuwait to liberate the Kuwait people and bring them free speech and democracy?

Hypocracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is what you are asking the world to accept. If Bush wants to clean up the world, he should start in his own back yard.

Take to task:

- Those people who armed and trained Bin Laden.

- Those who argued Bin Laden & Afghan mujahadeen were "Freedom fighters" when they were using US arms to kill Russians.

- Those who supplied arms to Saddam during the Iraq/Iran war. Where were all the concerns about the Iraqi peopl then??????

- Those who supported and even helped install dictators around the world.

Will he support any action against ex secratary of state Kissinger for his collusion with General Pinochets Regime??????????? (Brief history lesson - 1973 US bac