And the contract goes to....

[dssdog]

This is the stuff (http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/25/news/companies/war_contracts/index.htm) that makes me question motives.:mad:

[crownvic]

Motives For What??
Do you think that this is WHY IRAQ was attacked??
Not really sure where you are coming from DSSdog.
Maybe you could explain a little better
:)

[dssdog]

I hope we don't see members of the administration profiting personally from this war, we shall see.;)

[Bone Daddy]

Well I worked with the Halliburton guys and they are the largest and best oilfield guys around..It makes sense that they won the bid (they're huge) and they'll do a great job...Sometimes things that make too much sense seem odd...But don't for a second think Cheney swayed anything....The cream always rises to the top and Halliburton is the best...
One note I worked in the Gulf Of Mexico in the oilfields and Slumberger and Halliburton are tops in the field..

[gandalf_thegrey]

Well maybe we should give it to the people who already profited from Iraq for the last few years.

hxxp://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/03/25/50799-ap.html

[dssdog]

Actually we did! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/articles/halliburtonprimer.html)

[dssdog]

Past events, it is argued, have no objective existance, but survive only in written records and in human memories. The past is whatever the records and the memories agree upon. And since the Party is in full control of all records, and in equally full control of the minds of its members, it follows that the past is whatever the Party chooses to make it.

-From the book 1984 by George Orwell

[phoztech]

dssdog.. that applies to every political party.

ontracts have to be awarded to someone... and irregaurdless of political parties it is a long time tradition of big businesses to be granted favor from political figures for campagn contributions etc... this is not something specific to the republicans.

should you question motives? yes of course you should. but also think about what is happening, regaurdless of the possible hidden motives something good is being done, that is something that no liberal or anti-bush person can argue.... sure they can say he is going for oil but the result is still the same the people of iraq will have better lives.

one thing that pisses me off is that france wants to play a major role in the reconstruction... they think they deserve to have all of their companies over there doing thing and getting paid to do it by the USA... WTF? they have lost their damn minds. they want their way both ways.. .well france i think you misssed the boat.

[dssdog]

Ok phoztech, if we are bringing liberation to the people and this will be a free society, shouldn’t they be the ones deciding who gets the contracts? If their liberation comes with strings attached, have they been liberated?

[NotHome]

dssdog

They have a say in that which they pay for, if it's on our dime then we say what happens.

Until the oil fields are rebuilt, Iraq will not have any money to pay for anything, therefore it is the US that will pay for the work. It is our money and blood that are paying to free Iraq, why shouldn't we pay OUR companies that money.

NotHome

[dssdog]

I may have missed it on the news, did they ask for our help?

[NotHome]

Yup, 12 years of side stepping the UN resolutions - I'd say they asked for it.

NotHome

[ebayfan]

Don't think so, seeing as how the U.S. knows it's inevitable they'll win this war they already have taken power and control of the main objective. I can't believe how many people still this this is over terrorism, There is no Bin Laden there and most likely no chemical weapons and if there is I'm sure you'll all know about it soon enough.
Terrorism is a reality that most countries face, and in most cases it's your own citizens carrying out the act. I agree Saddam should be gone but come on 700 Billion? Why did the U.S. not force him out back in 1991? I know the U.N. but they could have refused to end the war back then unless he stepped down or was removed from power. Instead you taxpayers are shelling out 100's and 100's of billion dollars to finance this crap. Geez I wonder why they need control of the oil market? Once the war is over they can recoup some of there war and aid costs.

[NotHome]

Ebayfan: I would not say that one case is most.

NotHome

[phoztech]

dssdog -- if they did ask for our help they were shot. 1991 is a prime example.

ebayfan-- 700 billion? i think it is less than that besides whats a few billion when your country is going to profit trillions. and no one thinks this is about bin laden... well no-one with any sense... it maybe about genocide and terrorism , see the thing is that we live in a world that is getting smaller all the time... 50 years ago noone even heard of iraq and the middleeast much less that some people were goign to fly planes into skyscrapers... if we can change the middleeast and get rid of these leaders and regimes that produce these ultra poor that are told by that regime that the USA is the reason their life sucks then maybe we have a chance at not having another terrorist act happen...
and of course we are going to benefit from their oil... but so are they, where as before only Saddam benefitted.dont try and act like we are going to go over there and rape their land and get free oil..
the iraq situation represents a turning point in the US government policy... before we installed puppet governments with dictators etc as long as they were in line with the US goals... this is changing and we are starting to realize tha this was not correct and that all these unhappy people are going to end up costing us more in the long run...
the other thing is the faster the third world economies grow the faster our economy will grow.. .

[dssdog]

Originally posted by phoztech
dssdog -- if they did ask for our help they were shot. 1991 is a prime example.

ebayfan-- 700 billion? i think it is less than that besides whats a few billion when your country is going to profit trillions. and no one thinks this is about bin laden... well no-one with any sense... it maybe about genocide and terrorism , see the thing is that we live in a world that is getting smaller all the time... 50 years ago noone even heard of iraq and the middleeast much less that some people were goign to fly planes into skyscrapers... if we can change the middleeast and get rid of these leaders and regimes that produce these ultra poor that are told by that regime that the USA is the reason their life sucks then maybe we have a chance at not having another terrorist act happen...
and of course we are going to benefit from their oil... but so are they, where as before only Saddam benefitted.dont try and act like we are going to go over there and rape their land and get free oil..
the iraq situation represents a turning point in the US government policy... before we installed puppet governments with dictators etc as long as they were in line with the US goals... this is changing and we are starting to realize tha this was not correct and that all these unhappy people are going to end up costing us more in the long run...
the other thing is the faster the third world economies grow the faster our economy will grow.. .
Sorry Bud, I got to disagree with ya. :eek: We are not the world police, I don't know about you but I don't want to pay higher taxes. That will be the ultimate outcome of this. Besides do you want to put our troops in harms way for the next century “freeing” other nations? And at what point are all these other countries that oppose what we are doing going to rise up? How long before Canada, Mexico and France just to name a few say that’s enough?

[gandalf_thegrey]

We have been the worlds big brother and the worlds red cross for years so why not be the world police. We have been doing that for years too if you think about it.

[phoztech]

Originally posted by dssdog
Sorry Bud, I got to disagree with ya. :eek: We are not the world police, I don't know about you but I don't want to pay higher taxes. That will be the ultimate outcome of this. Besides do you want to put our troops in harms way for the next century “freeing” other nations? And at what point are all these other countries that oppose what we are doing going to rise up? How long before Canada, Mexico and France just to name a few say that’s enough?

1. we are the worlds police.

2. this(iraq) will not make us pay higher taxes. in fact we will come out on top.

3. we are not putting them in harms way to free other nations as much as we are trying to prevent another 9-11... now granted hate for us in the arab countries is at an all time high however it is that high cause these people are uneducated... once we change iraq there is a chance that change will occur acros the rest of that region. you know why alot of those nations leaders are scared and dont want this war? its cause thier neighbors are going to have a democracy that will cause unrest in their own citizens and they might lose power. and in the long run changing and educating the middleeast and getting rid of these breeding gounds for terrorism is fighting for the safety of future american generations.

4. as far as other countries standing up against us.... well lets just say that they wont ever stand up against us till we are morally in the wrong. if saddam had never invaded kuwait and if saddam was a nice guy then we would be wrong for going after saddam. however he made his bed its now time to sleep in it. by the same token we are justified in attacking france if they attacked spain and started killing all the people that lived in paris for some reason.... we stepped in and stopped kosovo. we should have stepped in and stopped things in rawanda(or some other african nation i cant remember), but we did not cause politics at the time was to lay low and not cause a stir(clintons policy of doing nothing,which at times is the best thing to do)

I guess the bottom line is that everything in this world effects us and as more and more time passes this will only become more and more true. to deny this fact is to be ignorant.

[NotHome]

phoztech: great posts but I believe we are wasting bandwidth.


Dssdog:
The mindset of the terrorists is born out of hopelessness and desperation. These people have nothing to live for and grasp onto any rope that is held out. The problem now is that the rope is being offered by fundamentalists who hate anything that is not Islam. The west represents everything that is evil to them, there is nothing we can do to change this except converting the governments to Islamic rule. If the US were to fall, these groups would turn to the next targets, those western countries no against the war.

Give these people a realistic chance to better themselves and they will move away from the fundamentalist Islamic groups. That is how the invasion of Iraq will help in the future. When people have a future to look forward to then they will have something to loose through terror.

NotHome

[dssdog]

1. We are the world’s police because we put our noses where they don’t belong. Granted it’s good to help but it’s not always wanted. We are not the world’s parents.
2. Do you really in all honesty think the UN and the Arab nations will allow us to make any direct money from that oil? The only money made will be going to the corporations that the government picks, (I’m sure you know the names). Again, you and I, the tax payers are footing the bill on this one. To believe otherwise is naive. As for democracy in Iraq, good luck, the civil wars will start shortly after our occupation ends. And we know from history, they can last a long time.
If this war were about 9-11 then we may be going after the wrong country. Why wouldn’t we go after the Saudi royals? They have a
PROVEN link. (http://www.inq7.net/wnw/2002/aug/17/wnw_4-1.htm)
3. If we find no WMD, Mr. Bush is going to have explaining to do. If they have scuds it’s not yet been confirmed that they have used them.
4. It’s very simple, FOLLOW THE MONEY! It’s what put GW in office, it controls the news you see!

[phoztech]

dssdog ... we are damned if we do and damned if we dont... aka everyone wants our money and aid yet they want us to not interfere... its a two way street...


as far as you saying that we wont make any direct money from that... lol... even if we dont make direct money if we make indirect that will be enough. and of course this money will go to corporations... geez do you honestly think that it would ever be a possibility that they drop a 40 gallon drum off in front of your house or mail you a check? the way it works is these companies get moeny and hire people, also this influx of oil/energy will lower the cost of living index and make prducts cheaper, also making profits higher and then other non-oil companies hire more people.

basically any influx of wealth into an economy is good for that economy.

i never said this war was about 9-11.... i said it was about preventing another 9-11 amoung a vast assortment of other economic and moral obligations... i realize that their is little or no connection between binladen and saddam.


as far as saudi arabia... this ruling family never invaded kuwait and never had sanctions put on it that it did not follow... if they had we would likely be going through the same thing with them. especially if they gassed and systmatically murder their own people ..basically amounting to genocide.(my france argument still applies)


you cant have your argument bothways.

the only justification that anyone can morally or legally have for this war not taking place is that they dont want iraqi civilians and american soldiers to die. and even this throws you into the thought of if we dont "liberate" iraq then how many more people will die at the hands of saddam?
this brings up "isolationism" as an american policy... this we cannot do as our corporations and wealth are so dependant on the rest of the world, we cannot reverse this and it would be idiotic to try and do so... basically it would require us to hand the "power baton" off to another country and how exactly would that benefit the good old USA?

[rob13572468]

Originally posted by phoztech

the only justification that anyone can morally or legally have for this war not taking place is that they dont want iraqi civilians and american soldiers to die. and even this throws you into the thought of if we dont "liberate" iraq then how many more people will die at the hands of saddam?
this brings up "isolationism" as an american policy... this we cannot do as our corporations and wealth are so dependant on the rest of the world, we cannot reverse this and it would be idiotic to try and do so... basically it would require us to hand the "power baton" off to another country and how exactly would that benefit the good old USA?

good point.. and to add to that, how about that fact that liberating iraq is the morally right thing to do... yes it is up to us to go in and do the right thing but the real question is why is it always us?... why is it that no other countries want to do the right thing just because it costs money. This is war and it is serious business and while i dont think that anyone really wants to go to war, sometimes it is necessary to do so and when we have the chance to remove a murdering regime and help people i would say that im proud that we are.

[stuffy]

Dssdog - you seem to have a problem with Capitalism. Capitalism is not a dirty four letter word. Yes, there will be large US and hopefully Canadian Corporations that will get contracts to do whatever is needed. These corporations will be chosen by their past performances. As it should be. I am glad that Haliburton was chosen as I know people in the oil industry and they say that this group is top-notch. I want the Iraqii's to have the best! What is wrong with that? Are we the only ones that deserve the best?

Our countries were founded on the principles of capitalism, you work, you make $$$, you start your own business, you make more $$$ (hopefully) or you continue to work for someone else. Whatever floats your boat as we have the ability to choose our destiny. Others don't have that option. Hopefully the ones who choose to start their own business's are successful and are able to hire more and more people. One day maybe they will own a Haliburton - what is wrong with that? Nothing, if you live in a country that supports this type of environment. Do you think that maybe someone in Iraq might be competent enough to, if given the chance, start their own business and successfully grow it to a Haliburton? Sure there is. But, not right from the get-go because they need help. Fortunately the US is helping them and not N Korea!!!

Thank God that President Bush and Vice-President Cheney know about oil. If I had a cancer, I would certainly go to an oncologist and not a ophthalmologist. I would want the best person for the job. Bush and Cheney are the best.

As far as the US being the world's police - they are not. Otherwise, you would see them in Africa - where the French are, unilaterally w/o UN support - and in Chechnya (sp?) and they are not..... They only go when there is no other option, I commend them on their obvious self-control. There is so much more that they could have done, but they have refrained, hopefully not at the peril of some of the coalition soldiers!

As far as NK goes - they are trying to get China/SK/Japan to start flexing a little muscle so that they DON'T have to do that too. BUT, isn't it funny how the voices so opposed to them going into Iraq without the 18th resolution wants them to put their soldiers into harms way with NK without any UN intervention at all???? What's up with that??? What hypocrits, or are they afraid at what the US will find in Iraq, but not in NK???? France and Germany for sure have some dirty laundry to share with SH and terrorists like UBL!

It could be worse. We could be depending on Chretien to make those types of decisions..... Lord only knows who he would send! Sorry for the length, I am wordy tonight.....

[dssdog]

:R

[dssdog]

I guess I'm not the only one who thought this was a conflict of interest. (http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/28/news/companies/Halliburton/index.htm)

[MercurE1]

Man is it so hard to believe that the best company had our VP as a ceo? I would HOPE that our VP came from the best company out there, rather than he was a attendant at 7-11 and bush just needed someone. I mean he headed one of the BEST companies for doing this, now is this shameful? No i say it is not, but i also say, hey comspiracy theorists rejoice for this is your second shooter on the grassy knoll. I mean come on, we have a situation where a company is being paid to go help another contry rebuild. I do not find it depictable, rather gratifying that my countrymen are helping the people of iraq create a new society that will benifit everyone (except the french, germans, and koreans) Sorry had to throw koreans in there i only mean the north because do you realize that now the koreans have no one to sell weapons of mass destruction to? So what? how does this affect you anyways? Just my two cents, talk to you later...

Merc

[MercurE1]

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
Well I worked with the Halliburton guys and they are the largest and best oilfield guys around..It makes sense that they won the bid (they're huge) and they'll do a great job...Sometimes things that make too much sense seem odd...But don't for a second think Cheney swayed anything....The cream always rises to the top and Halliburton is the best...
One note I worked in the Gulf Of Mexico in the oilfields and Slumberger and Halliburton are tops in the field..

Btw
Bone Daddy
Pirate QuarterMaster
(Moderator)
Grave Robber
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 2696

dssdog
Powder Monkey
Registered: Aug 1999
Posts: 86

which one am i gonna put more trust in? lol

Merc

[dssdog]

Originally posted by MercurE1
Man is it so hard to believe that the best company had our VP as a ceo? I would HOPE that our VP came from the best company out there, rather than he was a attendant at 7-11 and bush just needed someone. I mean he headed one of the BEST companies for doing this, now is this shameful? No i say it is not, but i also say, hey comspiracy theorists rejoice for this is your second shooter on the grassy knoll. I mean come on, we have a situation where a company is being paid to go help another contry rebuild. I do not find it depictable, rather gratifying that my countrymen are helping the people of iraq create a new society that will benifit everyone (except the french, germans, and koreans) Sorry had to throw koreans in there i only mean the north because do you realize that now the koreans have no one to sell weapons of mass destruction to? So what? how does this affect you anyways? Just my two cents, talk to you later...

Merc
Did you read the link?

[dssdog]

Originally posted by MercurE1
Btw
Bone Daddy
Pirate QuarterMaster
(Moderator)
Grave Robber
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 2696

dssdog
Powder Monkey
Registered: Aug 1999
Posts: 86

which one am i gonna put more trust in? lol

Merc
You do realize this is a message board? For all you know Bones and I both could be mass murders. Might I suggest you trust only in people you know? Just keep saying to yourself, it’s only the internet, it’s only the internet….

[Bone Daddy]

I read the link and it makes sense to me....The only thing they don't tell you is if the bid wasn't competitive or they just wanted to spare themselves critizism...Cheney left Halliburton quite awile ago and fully divested ...Many CEO's of big, successful companies are chosen to run for political office..There really is no way around it, the best and brightest come from the private sector...And if the company is big enough(say General Electric) there is no way to distance yourself completely...
Are you saying we should stop culling our leaders from the best source possible?

[luvtowin]

Originally posted by MercurE1
Btw
Bone Daddy
Pirate QuarterMaster
(Moderator)
Grave Robber
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 2696

dssdog
Powder Monkey
Registered: Aug 1999
Posts: 86

which one am i gonna put more trust in? lol

Merc

What are you trying to say, just because someone doesn't have a ton of posts he is not believable ?

[Bone Daddy]

Yup that's what he's saying...:R I hope he was referring to the fact I was over there for desert shield /storm and the fact I worked in the oilfield industry...It gives me a unique perspective on these events...

[luvtowin]

Originally posted by Bone Daddy
Yup that's what he's saying...:R I hope he was referring to the fact I was over there for desert shield /storm and the fact I worked in the oilfield industry...It gives me a unique perspective on these events...

If he was referring to your experience nobody can argue with that. :D :D I was making reference to the amount of posts he has made.

[MercurE1]

I was comparing the two people making arguments, and yes i sided with bonedaddy, since i know of him and his word on the experience he recieved in this topic, i had no concern with post numbers, only the people making the arguments. Look at my posts, only in the hundreds, i would make a weak argument if i said ignore this guy cause he only has this many because a guy with a similar number says so. I was only making a comparison of the sources.... My mistake i formatted it wrong.


Merc

[Bone Daddy]

I feel comfortable enough with you luvtowin to mess with ya...There's no doubt to anyone who's been around and has any sense that postcount doesn't mean much..At last count No1b4me has 372???? LMAO:cool:

[NotHome]

Originally posted by dssdog
I guess I'm not the only one who thought this was a conflict of interest. (http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/28/news/companies/Halliburton/index.htm)
I don't see where the conflict of interest is stated in this article.

Newsweek reported that it was unclear whether Halliburton took itself out of the running for the contract, was asked by the Bush administration to do so, or whether its bid was simply not deemed competitive.


If this is what you are refering to, there is nothing about a conflict of interest at all. Just because the Bush administration may have asked Halliburton to pull out doe snot mean that there is a confilct of interest. Many times companies will not bid in order to not get the bad press that an appearance of conflict would produce.


The development is likely to spare Cheney, who was Halliburton's CEO from 1995-2000, and the Bush administration from conflict-of-interest criticism.

This is the only place where a conflict is mentioned and is a positive statement. Halliburton probably does not want the money bad enough to deal with the bad press it will definately get from the Bush haters.

NtoHome

[dssdog]

Halliburton scores big off Iraq (http://www.msnbc.com/news/958312.asp?0cv=CB20&cp1=1)
Size, scope of work greater than previously disclosed

By Michael Dobbs
THE WASHINGTON POST

Aug. 28 — Halliburton, the company formerly headed by Vice President Cheney, has won contracts worth more than $1.7 billion out of Operation Iraqi Freedom and stands to make hundreds of millions more dollars under a no-bid contract awarded by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, according to newly available documents.

[LemonHead]

Big deal, what is your point?

The UN's oil for food contract had a higher profit margin figured in than Halliburtons contract does. Their contract is set at a fixed percentage rate above cost, just as the UN's oil for food contract was, except Halliburtons contract is for a lower rate. Go figure.

The fact of the matter is, there are only a few companies that exist in this world that are capable of doing the job properly and Haliburton is one of them.

Keep beating the dead horse, you'll show em eventually.

[dssdog]

Isn't this called war profiteering?

[LemonHead]

Originally posted by dssdog
Isn't this called war profiteering?

No, it's called making a living while fulfilling a need.

Basic Business 101

Do you expect them to do it for free?

[dssdog]

It must be a coincidence (http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/12/cheney.parachute.ap/) .:R

[LemonHead]

Originally posted by dssdog
It must be a coincidence (http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/12/cheney.parachute.ap/) .:R

Of course it is.

You need to quit living in the past. Old news is so stale!

Did you happen to notice the article you reference in your link

*http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/12/cheney.parachute.ap*

is dated:

August 12, 2000
Web posted at: 2:29 PM EDT (1829 GMT) ?

Hello, anybody home?

[dssdog]

The reason you pay someone back is because they gave you something first, no?:eek: Certainly your vision isn’t THAT clouded.:R That’s the reason most people are convicted AFTER the crime.;)