Blame Dave??

[pennylane]

To all those that in the past few months who have had Dave come knocking on your door, is he really the only one to blame in this little mess some of us are in?
How about passing a little blame on some of the dealers that people have sent their hard earned money to, especially those north of the border?
Case in point: Vcipher/Avantac.
Now these "winners" had alot of visibility and when the heat came down on them they struck a deal with the RCMP and Dave in 1998; turned over all their customer files to Dave, claim they were raided and closed down, only to reappear under the same name operating down in Mexico about a year latter, using the same customer files and selling to those loyal customers who unbeknown to them had had their names turned over to Dave.
Now these guys seem to me to be bigger "SCUMBUCKKETS" than Dave as far as I am concerned.
:mad:

[X_Factor]

I was under the impression that when VCipher was raided by the RCMP that they did not strike a deal with anyone. In fact they have been one of the few companies who have spent a ton of money in legal fee's to fight back. I thought that DTV fabricated purchase invoices and that records were not turned over to them voluntarily. I know that TTRK has been a big help to the community in explaining the current laws regarding testing in Canada and is always willing to help out with advice.

[incredible]

TTRK has NEVER done any deal with the government or Directv!
If he had he would not be in the position he is in today.
He has had to fight everybody, on all sides, at the same time.
IF we had a few more people like TTRK we would not be in a
defense mode. Yes dealers make money, but some also help support
the cause!

[pennylane]

Originally posted by X_Factor
I was under the impression that when VCipher was raided by the RCMP that they did not strike a deal with anyone. In fact they have been one of the few companies who have spent a ton of money in legal fee's to fight back. I thought that DTV fabricated purchase invoices and that records were not turned over to them voluntarily. I know that TTRK has been a big help to the community in explaining the current laws regarding testing in Canada and is always willing to help out with advice.


Some big help to the community. After having their records seized or more likely they handed them to Dave, these "SUBHUMANS" at Vicipher, continued to sell to customers that they knowingly had turned over to Dave as having purchased so called "illegal" signal theft equipment.
They really did Dave not the community a big favor.
I hope Dave is able to fry these Vcipher SCUM in oil!!:mad:

[lustinspace]

hey penny, how about some facts to support your garbage.
While I realize a few years ago when he was in business, Vcipher was roundly regarded asa a pricegouging slimepuppy. Fortunately, forced retirement seems to have change him. Other than the 60 dealers he had whose cases got overturned again, I am not aware of any enduser that got popped, and the SOL is way beyond over.
how about backing your claims?

[pennylane]

Originally posted by lustinspace
hey penny, how about some facts to support your garbage.
While I realize a few years ago when he was in business, Vcipher was roundly regarded asa a pricegouging slimepuppy. Fortunately, forced retirement seems to have change him. Other than the 60 dealers he had whose cases got overturned again, I am not aware of any enduser that got popped, and the SOL is way beyond over.
how about backing your claims?

Certainly my SOL is not over from alleged purchases that were suposidly done during 98-99.
How do you prove when exactly Dave got this info on their slimy hands?
Do you have any idea how long and how much it will cost to defend this extortion case against Dave, with no guarantee that you will win?
Let face it, no matter how we try to rationalize this whole matter(are programmers and unloopers, scripts really illegal, did they actually see me trying to steal their signals?), at least 95% of the people that have gotten letters are guilty of at least attempting to steal Dave's signal.
How else would he have gotten your name from a slimeball like Vcipher, to even send you a letter? They made up the names???
Pay up to Dave, forget this whole thing ever happened, get on with your life, and cancell you subsription if you had one, and give Dish Network your busines, and FCK Dave!::) :mad:

[morgana]

Pennylane
You have got to be one of the dumbest people I have ever come across. You whine and whine about things you have not even a sliver if facts about and then you spout off about things that are only in your mind.

Now first off, when Vcipher was raided, here in Canada on Nov 4 1998 he was charged criminally for the crimes and all evidence was sealed by the courts and DTV did not get to use anything held in that evidence for any reason. What you saw back then was a stolen copy of Vciphers database sold to DTV by a Scott Doniger, and that was where letters from back then came about. Vcipher did not give out anything.

Vcipher then fought his case in court, and won, but was again ordered to stand trial on appeals and this will be this fall. In the mean time DTV in the USA had sued Vcipher for $19,000,000.00 USD and won by default as vcipher was not about to set foot inside the USA. When DTV saw that vcipher may win again in court they decided to come to Canada and collect the $19 million they got default on. The Canadian courts did grant them leave to collect. So this meant they could go to the home of the owner of Vcipher and seize all assets they could find, that were not already seized. This included the database and any and all computers etc. Now, that is where they now have the database with all the ownership rights, and that is also where they can now start the letter campagne, as the 2 years only started last fall of 2002. So if you actually look Vcipher has fought this tooth and nail right down to him losing everything he had, and an idiot like you spouts crap about him being a slimeball?

You are the worst of the lowest form of creep in this industry and I hope not only they nail you but I hope they take every thing you own and you get depressed and commit suicide. Because jerks like you are just a waste of oxygen. You may lose and have to pay $4,500- $10,000, whoopee. Vcipher was a multimillionaire before satellite was even out and now he is broke, and you think you have been hard done by. How can you look yourself inthe mirror. I suggest the next time you are shaving and you do look in the mirror, you press the razor down hard on the left side of your neck and pull hard with pressure across to the right side of your neck. That way you would be at least making this world a better place.

[Tygh]

pennylane,
I was informed by DTV, when calling in response to a letter I received from them recently, that they received my VCipher purchase information from the RCMP in November 2002. The purchases were from 1998, but the S.O.L. run from the time that DTV was made aware of the purchase. So, I don't think that VCipher gave their database to DTV in 1998, or I would have received a letter from DTV during their first round with VCipher customers.

We are all angry about getting these letters, but, to my knowledge, and conversations with DTV, VCipher did not turn over customer information. Rather than flinging crap at others, deal with your own situation and do what is necessary to protect yourself.

[pennylane]

Originally posted by morgana
Pennylane
You have got to be one of the dumbest people I have ever come across. You whine and whine about things you have not even a sliver if facts about and then you spout off about things that are only in your mind.

Now first off, when Vcipher was raided, here in Canada on Nov 4 1998 he was charged criminally for the crimes and all evidence was sealed by the courts and DTV did not get to use anything held in that evidence for any reason. What you saw back then was a stolen copy of Vciphers database sold to DTV by a Scott Doniger, and that was where letters from back then came about. Vcipher did not give out anything.

Vcipher then fought his case in court, and won, but was again ordered to stand trial on appeals and this will be this fall. In the mean time DTV in the USA had sued Vcipher for $19,000,000.00 USD and won by default as vcipher was not about to set foot inside the USA. When DTV saw that vcipher may win again in court they decided to come to Canada and collect the $19 million they got default on. The Canadian courts did grant them leave to collect. So this meant they could go to the home of the owner of Vcipher and seize all assets they could find, that were not already seized. This included the database and any and all computers etc. Now, that is where they now have the database with all the ownership rights, and that is also where they can now start the letter campagne, as the 2 years only started last fall of 2002. So if you actually look Vcipher has fought this tooth and nail right down to him losing everything he had, and an idiot like you spouts crap about him being a slimeball?

You are the worst of the lowest form of creep in this industry and I hope not only they nail you but I hope they take every thing you own and you get depressed and commit suicide. Because jerks like you are just a waste of oxygen. You may lose and have to pay $4,500- $10,000, whoopee. Vcipher was a multimillionaire before satellite was even out and now he is broke, and you think you have been hard done by. How can you look yourself inthe mirror. I suggest the next time you are shaving and you do look in the mirror, you press the razor down hard on the left side of your neck and pull hard with pressure across to the right side of your neck. That way you would be at least making this world a better place.
Very rude comments from a real Winner. AT least I can afford a razor. Morgana needs to go back and work on his minimum wage job.:eek:

[Entropy]

I disagree with the date that DTV got a hold of customer records. I saw in a court document that the date that records from 5/96 to 2/98 were obtained was fall of 2000 so that is the date the clock started ticking for the people in that time period.

[Tygh]

I think DTV may have gotten some information early on and then additional information in late 2002. Pretty dangerous for them to lie about evidence, so I think their story is valid. There is no reason for them to make up dates, as they will be reviewed in any case that goes to court.

[incredible]

But how many cases have gone to court! I was just at a hearing where the RCMP filed a false affidavit. When questioned on the stand they reversed their position! I am SURE this is the case with TTRK!