XM says it still has modulator problems

[Coyote]

Item from Satelite Standard group.

"11-Aug-2006
Other Events
Item 8.01 Other Events.

Set forth below is an addition to the Legal Proceedings section included in
our most recent Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q:

Legal Proceedings
As we have previously disclosed, on April 25, 2006, we received a letter
from the Federal Communications Commission stating that its Office of
Engineering and Technology Laboratory had tested the Delphi XM SKYFi2 radio
and determined that its FM modulator wireless transmitter was not in
compliance with permissible emission limits. We are also aware that
Audiovox, manufacturer of the Audiovox Xpress, a radio designed to work with
the XM system, received a similar letter from the FCC.

On August 7, 2006, the FCC requested additional information with respect to
these devices, as well as the Sportscaster, Roady XT, MyFi, Airware, Tao and
Roady 2 devices, including the chronology and circumstances leading to the
non-compliance, and actions and remedies undertaken to correct the
situation.
We will respond promptly to the latest FCC request and have implemented a
series of actions involving our radios designed to bring them into
compliance; we have also requested our manufacturers to suspend production
and/or shipments of radios or accessories with these issues. We are
completing the necessary design or installation modifications, as
appropriate, and conducting additional testing for XM radios to meet
applicable FCC requirements. We expect to obtain new certifications for
modified XM radios on an expedited basis.

In the meantime, we are working to limit interruptions in supply or
availability of product for sale of certain models of XM radios at
retailers, and we continue to cooperate with the FCC's ongoing inquiry. No
health or safety issues are involved with these wireless XM radios, and this
matter does not pertain to any XM radios which are factory installed in new
vehicles or which are directly connected in other vehicles.

We can provide no assurances at this time that our actions will be deemed
sufficient by the FCC, or that this matter will not have a material impact
on our business, consolidated results of operations or financial position.

http://satellitestandard.blogspot.com/2006/08/xm-satellite-still-working-with-fcc-on.html

[Rich]

Coyote wrote:
> Item from Satelite Standard group.
> http://satellitestandard.blogspot.com/2006/08/xm-satellite-still-working-with-fcc-on.html

You can't believe a damn thing XM says anymore. Their lying management
should be sued.

[Coyote]

"Rich" <sirius.rich@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155339947.771049.189510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Coyote wrote:
>> Item from Satelite Standard group.
>> http://satellitestandard.blogspot.com/2006/08/xm-satellite-still-working-with-fcc-on.html
>
> You can't believe a damn thing XM says anymore. Their lying management
> should be sued.
>

It's my understand XM is being sued.

[Rich]

Coyote wrote:
> It's my understand XM is being sued.

See, I told you.

[Von Fourche]

"Coyote" <noname@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:cPKdndY5FoYpE0HZnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
> Item from Satelite Standard group.
>
> "11-Aug-2006
> Other Events
> Item 8.01 Other Events.
>
> Set forth below is an addition to the Legal Proceedings section included
> in our most recent Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q:
>
> Legal Proceedings
> As we have previously disclosed, on April 25, 2006, we received a letter
> from the Federal Communications Commission stating that its Office of
> Engineering and Technology Laboratory had tested the Delphi XM SKYFi2
> radio and determined that its FM modulator wireless transmitter was not in
> compliance with permissible emission limits. We are also aware that
> Audiovox, manufacturer of the Audiovox Xpress, a radio designed to work
> with the XM system, received a similar letter from the FCC.
>
> On August 7, 2006, the FCC requested additional information with respect
> to these devices, as well as the Sportscaster, Roady XT, MyFi, Airware,
> Tao and Roady 2 devices, including the chronology and circumstances
> leading to the non-compliance, and actions and remedies undertaken to
> correct the situation.
> We will respond promptly to the latest FCC request and have implemented a
> series of actions involving our radios designed to bring them into
> compliance; we have also requested our manufacturers to suspend production
> and/or shipments of radios or accessories with these issues. We are
> completing the necessary design or installation modifications, as
> appropriate, and conducting additional testing for XM radios to meet
> applicable FCC requirements. We expect to obtain new certifications for
> modified XM radios on an expedited basis.
>
> In the meantime, we are working to limit interruptions in supply or
> availability of product for sale of certain models of XM radios at
> retailers, and we continue to cooperate with the FCC's ongoing inquiry. No
> health or safety issues are involved with these wireless XM radios, and
> this matter does not pertain to any XM radios which are factory installed
> in new vehicles or which are directly connected in other vehicles.
>
> We can provide no assurances at this time that our actions will be deemed
> sufficient by the FCC, or that this matter will not have a material impact
> on our business, consolidated results of operations or financial position.


What's the real story behind the government going after XM? Are the
American radio stations behind this? Are they using their influence to get
the government to put the hurt to XM simply because they are scared of
satellite radio? Is Sirius secretly behind this?

[Dr. Droo]

Von Fourche wrote:
> What's the real story behind the government going after XM? Are the
> American radio stations behind this? Are they using their influence to get
> the government to put the hurt to XM simply because they are scared of
> satellite radio? Is Sirius secretly behind this?

The government is going after XM because the NAB has a lot of lobbying
pressure and the devices do interrupt radio stations for people in
proximity of the devices.

Yes, the american radio stations have helped bring the problem to the
governments eyes.

Yes, the terrestrial stations are afraid of Satellite radio. However,
the devices are also not within compliance.

Sirius being secretly behind it would make little sense, seeing as
they, too, were slapped for similar problems regarding FM Modulators.
Several of their more recent receivers had to be re-certified and
re-released as result. It just happens that Sirius managed to get this
done ahead of XM.

--D

[Lowdown in Lodi]

> What's the real story behind the government going after XM? Are the
> American radio stations behind this? Are they using their influence to
> get the government to put the hurt to XM simply because they are scared of
> satellite radio? Is Sirius secretly behind this?

NAB is pressing the issue against both XM & Sirius.

Sirius uses a different technique with some of its FM transmitters than XM
does, and frankly, XM's it is a bit more complex.

Some of SIRI's have been recertified -- but given the importance of getting
it right, I suspect that XM is trying to squeeze all the performance out of
they can.

The real problem with this is not the temporary damage it could do due to
inventory shortfalls. The REAL damage is what crappy modulators will do to
the industry, since they could make it necessary to abandon the wireless
modulator totally if they are to provide satisfactory signal.

SIRI's new Sportster 4 is already looking like a dog (no pun intended) in
this respect; if one reads the reviews at Crutchfields each and every one
complains loudly about the lousy FM modulator.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hB5DEoBgB23/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=607SP4TK1&tab=review#Tab

I hope XM, through expending a little more energy, will end up with a
better-performing result. If not, both companies are in deep ----.

[Von Fourche]

"Dr. Droo" <drdroo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155353966.088213.81210@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Von Fourche wrote:
>> What's the real story behind the government going after XM? Are the
>> American radio stations behind this? Are they using their influence to
>> get
>> the government to put the hurt to XM simply because they are scared of
>> satellite radio? Is Sirius secretly behind this?
>
> The government is going after XM because the NAB has a lot of lobbying
> pressure and the devices do interrupt radio stations for people in
> proximity of the devices.


Are you saying if I lived next door to a radio station the FM
transmitter from my SkyFi2 would screw up the radio station somehow? Or are
you saying the FM transmitter from my SkiFi2 could screw up my neighbors
trying to tune into a radio station?

[Dr. Droo]

Von Fourche wrote:
> Are you saying if I lived next door to a radio station the FM
> transmitter from my SkyFi2 would screw up the radio station somehow? Or are
> you saying the FM transmitter from my SkiFi2 could screw up my neighbors
> trying to tune into a radio station?

I'm saying that your Skyfi2 has the potential to bleed into someones
car if you're sitting next to them at a stop light. Some people put
their frequency of their FM modulator on one channel that may actually
be in use by a low power radio station such as religious or public
programming stations.

For instance - We have a 160 watt FM radio station here for a
communications school on 89.3 you could probably eclipse pretty easily
depending where you are in the metro area. I don't think it'd do a
whole lot to the radio station, though it could impact them in some
ways because of their listeners not being able to access the
programming.

The other problem is that in some cases these FM modulators were not
staying within their 200 kHz spot. They were shooting things out of
the boundaries.

--D

[Dr. Droo]

Lowdown in Lodi wrote:
> The real problem with this is not the temporary damage it could do due to
> inventory shortfalls. The REAL damage is what crappy modulators will do to
> the industry, since they could make it necessary to abandon the wireless
> modulator totally if they are to provide satisfactory signal.

The real problem is that you'll have a ton of powerful crappy
modulators for iPods, CD portables, other mp3 players, and any existing
Satrad devices out there, that will be competing in the same space.
This isn't necessarily a huge problem out in rural territories, but as
you get more urban the available frequencies are less and the amount of
people potentially using a modulator is more.

As for complexity, I'm pretty sure XM is using a 3rd party modulator
chip. I'll have to dig back through the block diagrams again when I
get a chance. Either way, FM modulators are not a new concept and XM
has had ample time to do something about this issue if Sirius was able
to evolve a solution. If the tables were turned, you would suggest
similar.

But one consideration - If memory serves, they use the XM satellite
antenna to broadcast the modulator signal, which, if done right, should
be placed relatively close to the FM antenna on the exterior of the
vehicle. If that's the case, the XM units should do rather well
compared to going through the vehicle to get at the FM antenna like the
Sirius units do.

However, it's unfortunate that XM doesn't offer an antenna relay box.
The only XM receivers I've seen with a RF OUT jack were some Audiovox
models. The antenna relay box is probably going to be a big deal to
Sirius customers to counteract the lower power modulators. TSS-Radio
is starting to bundle it with some radio models for free, the
Sportster4 being one of those models I believe. A relay box is trivial
compared to replacing a head unit if it lacks a proper Aux input.

--D

[David]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 04:34:34 GMT, "Lowdown in Lodi" <Lodi@lowdown.com>
wrote:

>NAB is pressing the issue against both XM & Sirius.
>
NAB and NPR.

[Lowdown in Lodi]

>
> The real problem is that you'll have a ton of powerful crappy
> modulators for iPods, CD portables, other mp3 players, and any existing
> Satrad devices out there, that will be competing in the same space.
> This isn't necessarily a huge problem out in rural territories, but as
> you get more urban the available frequencies are less and the amount of
> people potentially using a modulator is more.
>

But NAB isn't fighting these.

> As for complexity, I'm pretty sure XM is using a 3rd party modulator
> chip. I'll have to dig back through the block diagrams again when I
> get a chance. Either way, FM modulators are not a new concept and XM
> has had ample time to do something about this issue if Sirius was able
> to evolve a solution. If the tables were turned, you would suggest
> similar.
>

No, the difference is in the antenna system.

> But one consideration - If memory serves, they use the XM satellite
> antenna to broadcast the modulator signal, which, if done right, should
> be placed relatively close to the FM antenna on the exterior of the
> vehicle. If that's the case, the XM units should do rather well
> compared to going through the vehicle to get at the FM antenna like the
> Sirius units do.

Right -- if XM does this right, they could end up with an edge.

> However, it's unfortunate that XM doesn't offer an antenna relay box.
> The only XM receivers I've seen with a RF OUT jack were some Audiovox
> models. The antenna relay box is probably going to be a big deal to
> Sirius customers to counteract the lower power modulators. TSS-Radio
> is starting to bundle it with some radio models for free, the
> Sportster4 being one of those models I believe. A relay box is trivial
> compared to replacing a head unit if it lacks a proper Aux input.

But it drives SACs up.

[David]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:39:21 GMT, "Lowdown in Lodi" <Lodi@lowdown.com>
wrote:


>
>No, the difference is in the antenna system.
>
>> But one consideration - If memory serves, they use the XM satellite
>> antenna to broadcast the modulator signal,

Not anymore. Hence the ferrite.

[Coyote]

"David" <rickets@knac.com> wrote in message
news:o91sd2l5h1jdpmg8n2n08qth732ciuflpj@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:39:21 GMT, "Lowdown in Lodi" <Lodi@lowdown.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>No, the difference is in the antenna system.
>>
>>> But one consideration - If memory serves, they use the XM satellite
>>> antenna to broadcast the modulator signal,
>
> Not anymore. Hence the ferrite.

correct...the power cord is used as the xm modulator antenna. ferrite beads
just
attenuate rf output. Thats why the FCC shot the beads down as a user could
remove them
and restore full rf power.

Jacoby had his head up his ass as usual when he said a 25 cent part
(ferrite beads) would
fix XM modulator problems.

Moyold H2A modulator has a small internal antenna c shapped antenna with 3
inch base with 1 inch legs.
_
|_

[Dr. Droo]

Lowdown in Lodi wrote:
> But NAB isn't fighting these.

Course not.. It's all about Satellite Radio modulators mostly. Their
'testing' I believe included some limited iPod devices, but it's
clearly not their focus.

> Right -- if XM does this right, they could end up with an edge.

But that edge is still going to be superceded by other people with XM
units putting out more power and perhaps some of the more aggressive
iPod/mp3 player modulators made in the sweatshop asian markets.
There's still more iPods out there than Satrad receivers. Most everyone
I know with an iPod has a Dlo Transpod or an iTrip, etc.

> But it drives SACs up.

To have the socket on the device? We're talking pennies. I'm saying
the option should most definitely be there since it's the easiest way
to get some sort of direct connection to the head unit. XM doesn't
provide this option at all and FM Modulators aren't that great all
around.

As for affecting SAC - TSS provides the relay boxes for free with the
S4 at their own expense, not at Sirius's expense. It only affects
their own profit margin.

To not provide several options results in affecting Churn instead.
People can hear static and interference on FM radio for free, they
don't need to pay Satellite Radio to do it instead..

--D

[Dr. Droo]

Coyote wrote:
> ferrite beads just
> attenuate rf output. Thats why the FCC shot the beads down as a user could
> remove them
> and restore full rf power.

Correct.. The ferrites have to be difficult to remove, such as molded
into the cable.

Ferrites that are used to protect the device itself from interference
can be removable however.

As far as the power cord being used as the RF modulator, I think that
it was bleeding through the power cable, I don't think that was by
design (this was my impression from the reports on the topic anyway,
correct me if I'm wrong). The XM receivers generally use the XM
antenna as its means to broadcast the modulator signal. The modulator
signal was also (on some models) going outside its 200 kHz slot, which
could have resulted in going out of band on the fringes. The Part 15
rules specify you must stay wholly within 200 kHz, so they would've had
to rework that problem (I think the Skyfi2 specifically was one of
these receivers, but I forget).

The interest to me is that the FCC allegedly had problems with the RF
Out jack being a common stock item on the Sirius receivers. However,
the Sportster4 wasn't under scrutiny at all, and it has this same jack.
I'm curious if plugging one of the modulator helper wires from a
Sportster Replay, Starmate Replay, S50, etc. into the SP4 makes for a
better experience. It'd likely violate the rules to do so, but I could
see a sudden run on the purchasing of these wires if it works.

If Sirius had to do away with the RF OUT entirely, then it would be
rather trivial to put it back too, especially on devices that
previously had the jack. They'd probably just not solder the jack to
the board anymore and leave the contact pads there. I think requiring
removal of the RF OUT jack would be a step backwards, as it is a saving
grace in metro areas such as in Boston.

--D

[David]

On 12 Aug 2006 12:27:37 -0700, "Dr. Droo" <drdroo@gmail.com> wrote:

>Coyote wrote:
>The modulator
>signal was also (on some models) going outside its 200 kHz slot

This just means the audio was too loud.

[Lowdown in Lodi]

> As for affecting SAC - TSS provides the relay boxes for free with the
> S4 at their own expense, not at Sirius's expense. It only affects
> their own profit margin.

That's TSS. BB isn't going to do this, or CC. They'll be marking them up
bigtime, adding to the initial outlay, which ultimately, increase SAC (or
ARPU, if they use rebates) since XM & SIRI are going to have to be sure
receivers are affordable.

> To not provide several options results in affecting Churn instead.
> People can hear static and interference on FM radio for free, they
> don't need to pay Satellite Radio to do it instead..

This is apt to be a big problem if a good solution isn't worked out.

This is an area where XM & SIRI really need to be working together because
both stand to take the hit.

[Dr. Droo]

Lowdown in Lodi wrote:
> That's TSS. BB isn't going to do this, or CC. They'll be marking them up
> bigtime, adding to the initial outlay, which ultimately, increase SAC (or
> ARPU, if they use rebates) since XM & SIRI are going to have to be sure
> receivers are affordable.

They don't have to, people can buy one from those places and have it
installed instead. After you consider upcoming rebates, it should be a
wash up against the cost of those same radios pre-rebate as they sit.

> This is apt to be a big problem if a good solution isn't worked out.
>
> This is an area where XM & SIRI really need to be working together because
> both stand to take the hit.

I don't see where either has much they can say. Their radios were out
of sync (in some cases VERY out of sync) with the claimed standard and
the FCC has reminded both of them of this. The only thing they could
potentially do (aside from finding alternatives to get it into the car,
as I've suggested) is they could bring down the iPod transmitters, etc.
with them. That still, unfortunately, doesn't help the abundance of
hardware already in the field.

The HD Radio subcarrier idea that XM has come up with doesn't really
help the matter either. HD Radios are expensive to license and there's
been no real firmness as to who will adopt HD Radio in the car and
when.. It's a nice idea in the longer term, but I think we'll see AUX
jacks first.

--D

[Von Fourche]

"Dr. Droo" <drdroo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155410857.126998.31570@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Coyote wrote:
>> ferrite beads just
>> attenuate rf output. Thats why the FCC shot the beads down as a user
>> could
>> remove them
>> and restore full rf power.
>
> Correct.. The ferrites have to be difficult to remove, such as molded
> into the cable.
>
> Ferrites that are used to protect the device itself from interference
> can be removable however.
>
> As far as the power cord being used as the RF modulator, I think that
> it was bleeding through the power cable, I don't think that was by
> design (this was my impression from the reports on the topic anyway,
> correct me if I'm wrong). The XM receivers generally use the XM
> antenna as its means to broadcast the modulator signal. The modulator
> signal was also (on some models) going outside its 200 kHz slot, which
> could have resulted in going out of band on the fringes. The Part 15
> rules specify you must stay wholly within 200 kHz, so they would've had
> to rework that problem (I think the Skyfi2 specifically was one of
> these receivers, but I forget).


Ok, I have my SKIFY2 on my PC desk hooked in a home cradle. The FM
modulator is always on. Are you saying the FM signal it is sending out is
not being transmitted from inside the SKIFY2 box, rather its power cord or
the XM antenna I have sitting in the window? What about when I have in the
car cradle while using the FM modulator? Where does the signal come from?

[Dr. Droo]

Von Fourche wrote:
> Ok, I have my SKIFY2 on my PC desk hooked in a home cradle. The FM
> modulator is always on. Are you saying the FM signal it is sending out is
> not being transmitted from inside the SKIFY2 box, rather its power cord or
> the XM antenna I have sitting in the window? What about when I have in the
> car cradle while using the FM modulator? Where does the signal come from?

As far as I know the XM antenna is used to send out the FM modulator
signal but it also goes out the power cable as well. I don't know if
this was intentional or a design flaw. The RF Choke (Ferrite) that
they wanted to provide reduced the power cable issue, but the FCC said
it wasn't acceptable since it can easily be removed.

I don't know if the home dock may have its own antenna in it. But this
is my impression of how the modulator works while in a car.

--D