DTC-100 and #15 lead on flash eeprom

[Got DAVE?]

There is two identical eeproms (one hasaa yellow #1 location and the other has white), which one do yo do the pin modification on yellow or white.
thank yo

[hwac]

Just short out one,athey are in parallel with each other. no need to lift pin either it is a dead link on the pcb.

[Aerosmith]

Actually,athey are not in parallel, b t in a cascade or serial configuration. I put both at v-, because Iaam not certian what part of the write process puts what data in what chip. But maybe yo know more than I.

[hwac]

My frien they are in parallel take a meter and read both chips, 0 ohms I lifted both chips off the boar there is a trace on the pcb that links them together, they are a input to the chip or control handler. If they were in cascade the input ofaone woud be the output ofathe other, how coud this be they are both inputs and cannot be configured as a output. Now I have the code for both chips ( before upgrade ) and trying to see where the 752 in inserted in the code b t this will take a while ................

[Indianjohn]

Do yo have to lift the #15 pin or can yo just run a ground to it? Thanks for the help.

[Aerosmith]

hwac - thanks for the info. By cascade , I ment the data distribution from the interface. I agree about the VsubPP, both are tied to the same driver, I just interupted the line to the driver to force both devices into a low state.

I have one DTC100 that has the original 40b firmware from the factory. Someday I'll get a reader/burner to look atait.

[hwac]

i have two of these and i just grounded the 15 ,56 pins no lifting involved ( sore back)

[Indianjohn]

hwac, thanks for the info. If I understand correctly I just nee to ground one of the #15 and 56 pins.

I will give it a try in the morning and post back with my results.

[hwac]

if yo pick one use pin # 15. i just wanted to lock 56 as well, but 15 has better locking protection

[kool1]

hwac

Ok let me make sure I'm reading this right. All yo do is to run a wire from pin #15 to a common ground and it will not take updates?

[technobill]

HWAC - Since yo have the un-updated codes for both of the flash eeproms have yo considered burning a few replacement chips for fellow Den Members? I for one woud be interested. My DTC 100 got hit a few weeks ago.

"Now I have the code for both chips ( before upgrade ) and trying to see where the 752 in inserted in the code but this will take a while ................"

[hwac]

all yo have to do is ground #15 thats it .......remove ground yo will take updates

Now for the code I will be doing one next week have a guy that I know that has a dtc with 752 I will try this first before I make any commitments

[Indianjohn]

I was successful in my dtc 100 protection mission. I just had my first failed upgrade attempt:)

I ran a ground to the # 15 pin on the chip on right an a ground to the # 56 pin on other chip (looking at it from the front). I then screwed the wires down to the closest ground screw that mounts the boar , put a little tape on the chip tops the wires passed over to keep them from moving around and checked to make sure all the connections were good.

I woud like to thank all the great people on this site for all the help with har ware and programming. I do not post much, but have been reading for a long time. I woud not live long enough to figure most of this out by myself.

Thanks again,

indianjohn

[technerd]

Indianjohn,
Did yo lift the pin from the boar ? And how di yo go about sod ering the wire to the pin?

[Indianjohn]

No, I did not lift the pin from either chip. I took a cheap soldering iron and put a nice point on it with the bench grinder. I screwed one en of both 30 ga. wires to the ground screw and then taped them in proper position to the top on the nearby chips. I tined the en of each first and then soldered them to the top of the pin where it is soldered to the boar . I have one of those neon lights with the glass in the middle so I coud see what I was doing. Be careful not to try and use to much solder. It is easy to get more than one pin. I have some pictures if some one wants to post them somewhere. Good luck, it does work.

[kool1]

hwac

I ran a wire from #15 an #56 to a common ground an I check the solfware and it read Schedule for Upgrade Fri. 1/13/01 Version 40b, came back and check again then it readed Schedule for Upgrade Mon. 11/20/00. Is this normal or di I do something wrong or shoud I let the receiver take the update?

[hwac]

If yo did the mod correctly, the unit will get all scheduled updates but when they try to send it the ir will not let them program the flash tsop.

[kool1]

OK everything looks good for what I did and time will tell...THANKS

[joeCband]

Originally poste by hwac
Just short out one, they are in parallel with each other. no need to lift pin either it is a dead link on the pcb.

Do yo have the eeprom file and any diagrams or links so i can fin them. Or is it only possible to fix this before it took the update? Thanks...

[technobill]

JoeCBan -
It is only a fix if yo havent gotten the update.

[lisnup65]

I guess my attempt at this upgrade has seriously failed!!!!!!!!!!! I used wire wrap wire and soldered to pin #15. I then connected the other end of the wire to a ground spot on the board. When O plugged the unit in the fan came on and that was it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The unit woud no longer work! I checked and double checked that I got only the 1 pin and that is all I did solder to. I went to pin#15 on the white dotted chip. I am glad that I just purchase it on Sat as I already returned for an exchange. What did I do wrong??????????????????????? I am at a lose on this one!

Lisnup

[hwac]

take wire off ground and power up unit see if it boots ( make sure the ground you use is really ground ) go back to the begining and see if the ird works then start from there .

[lisnup65]

I undid the ground and retried. It still woud not work!! I removed the wire from the pin and reinspected all pins through a magnifying eye and all appeared OK. The ground spot I used on the board was verified with my Fluke meter testing between that point and several chassis locations.

Lisnup

[lormad]

When mod'ing pin 15 on DTC100 units, every single one that I have done to this date will not power up after lifting pin 15. I do not know exactly why this is so. I have noticed, though can't swear by it that once the pin 15 is heated up either by conventional or non-conventional methods I have noticed that the unit then falls into a stubborn mode an does not want to power up. Only after letting everything cool down properly does the unit snap back to attention an function properely.

Rudementary method to date... (I have mod ed 6 DTC100 to date)

1. Power Unit up, check to see it works.
2. Using Hot Air Gun Procedure, lift one of two eeprom pins, then follow procedures 3 - 4 - 5, THEN DO THE OTHER EEPROM.
3. Let things cool down.
4. Power Unit Up... most fail to. Double check all solder connections. If need be clean each an every single single eeprom pin in between each pin with a pointed tip exacto knife taking caution not to cut any pcb traces. If unit still doesn't power up at this point, recheck again making sure no solder is arcing in between pins.
5. If unit will still not power up, "reshort" if yo will connection between pin 15 and where pin15 was on the pcb board. Recheck to see if it will power up. Be careful when shorting pins back. If it does, try it again but non-shorted.
6. run wire to pin 15 and gro nd (I like gro nd where screws hold various layers of pcb's together). Recheck again. Sometimes I have fo nd (make sure yo are always gro nded by using a gro nd strap) that by pressing down on eeproms with a finger or thumb and repowering up, unit comes to life.

I have noticed this with some 5th Gen Receivers and I like to remedy this by making sure that at every stage I try to power up the unit. I think that the single eeprom on the 5th gen is in less of a state of "shock" an hence is revived easier than the DTC100 which has two flash eeproms to contend with.

P.S. I believe the eeprom (with fan facing yo r face, and power cord to yo r right) to the right is the eeprom dealing with non-satellite HDTV data, and the eeprom to the right with HDTV data.

http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/websterscardcleaning/images/sat33.gif

[lisnup65]

The replacement unit that I received worked fine with the Modification. The first unit that I had that failed woud not reboot after 2 hours, so I dont beleive that it was a heat problem. Im still lost as to why the first one did not work, but I got a failed to upgrade message this morning on the second DTC-100 so all is calm for now.

Lisnup

[FikseGTS]

I have lifted the chip off the board.... and just want to make certain I am locating pin 15 correctly...

from the sharp diagrams... the numbering starts from the top left of the chip and goes down...

here is a pic of where i think pin15 is...

is this correct?

http://www.warpem.com/pin15.gif

thanks

[snowball]

You are correct. But what about pin 15 on the chip above that one in the picture? Doesn't it need to be taken to ground as well? What did you use to unsolder the pins?

[Indianjohn]

My DTC 100 is still working fine and using an h card. I did not lift the pins. I have explained how I did it here.

http://www.dsschat.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=34994&pagenumber=1

Hope this helps.

[hien122]

Indianjohn, so the scheduled update went by and the receiver did not accept the update with with your mod? And Hwac, did your scheduled update past also?

[Electron]

This is a lot better than lifting the pin 15 from the pcb I posted this on another forum several weeks ago:


In order to stop the firmware update on a DTC-100 you Have to Disable the VPP pin ( Pin 15 ) on the Flash Memory IC's, there are 2 Flash memory chips in the DTC-100 the part number on the chips is LHZ8F160S5T-L70A Pin 15 on both of these chips is tied together and also connected to the collector of transistor Q23512 ( Center pin Marked C )

The transistor provides Programming voltage to the chip during a Firmware update.

If we tie the VPP pin of the flash memory IC to ground it is impossible for the contents of the Flash Memory IC to be re written.

To prevent possible damage to other components on the circuit board you must clip the center pin on the transistor, Then jumber the trace from the center pin to ground. There is a Pad marked GND near the transistor and a feedthrough pad on the trace going to the C pin on the transistor Jumper these pins together with a piece of fine wire.
If you do not cut the center pin on the transistor and the firmware update is sent the programming voltage will be tied directly to ground and possibly cause major damage.

If this is not clear enough to follow I will put together a doc with pictures and send to Frig to post.

It is probable that all RCA 5th gen IRd's have the same basic connections on the VPP pin on the Flash Memory chip
I have not looked inside any others.

If your DTC-100 has already taken the latest update this will not help your situation.


Electron

[sgt. shultz]

Okay this is what I done. I grounded both 15 pins on the two tsops and removed the transitors and grounded the center pin. I am taking no chances with my dtc 100 as I cannot return mine. Is there any chance this won't work? My unit powers up but i notice that if I tried to change setting the unit resets and powers down. Did I do anything wrong?

[Electron]

It is very easy to cause a solder short if you solder directly to the pins on the chip, The pins tie together then to the center pin on the transistor so you only need to
put the jumper on the center transistor pin then to ground.

I would inspect wour work with a magnifying glass to see if there is a solder bridge between 2 pins

[technobill]

Electron -

I did your center pin mod. Was still a bit hard for those of us with shaky hands. I havent had a chance to fire it up yet but will let you know how it works.

[Indianjohn]

Still get scheduled for updates and they are unsuccessfull on my dtc100.

Added an emulator today and all is well. PMG did a great job on the emulator software.

Thanks again to all the guru's that make this possible.

[Denis]

There is an easy way for almost anyone. Don't need to mess with the tiny pin 15 and clip the transistor:
(quote)
Found a easy way to mod DTC100. I take out of the board and found actually both pin 15 of the Sharp eprom are connected by a trace on the board but go under the left eprom. Then the right eprom also has a trace on the board go under it to the middle then go under the board with one trace to the transistor. This is confirmed by ometer. And the last trace is best place to cut. And this trace, before it goes to the transistor, it surface up on the board again, and with two empty holes connected by a trace. If you cut the trace between the two holes, you can use the left hole to connect ground, and there is a ground pole nearby (about one inch south-west); and in future it's easy to reconnect the two holes to original state if necessary. I tried this and it's really easy and almost everyone can do it.

The above is from some other place. And many tried it. It's easy and stand up the update (won't take it). Also cut the trace make it safer not to ground the incoming upgrade voltage which has a potential to damage the machine.

Hope this help.

[technobill]

Electron

I did your center pin mod to my DTC 100! Works like a champ. I was scheduled for an upgrade overnight and I stayed up to see if it would take.

I got nervouse because it looked like the update was being written to the chip (counts progress of download on screen) but it was not able to write to the chip.

I did have to reset my IRD and I noticed that a second update was scheduled for the next afternoon....

Good Call and fairly easy fix.

[Electron]

You will probably get the attempted upgrade a couple more times then they seem to stop sending it

Electron

[technobill]

Yes I have had to power cycle my IRD a few times. It is the only way to fix it after a failed update.

[tvmike]

Originally posted by Electron
You will probably get the attempted upgrade a couple more times then they seem to stop sending it

Electron

Actually they have been sending them twice a day, 12 hours apart for the last week. Each time they send one down you have to reset the IRD by removing AC. It is starting to be a pain. But it does prevent the download write.

[Electron]

I only got the attempted update 2 days in a row about 3 weeks ago It has not happened since!

I guess I am lucky, Also you may want to set the upgrade mode to interactive in the service menu if you havent done so already this could have some effect.

Electron

[cabra]

Elctron,

My last try at soldering pin 15 on DTC-100 was a mess. Dead unit. I was wondering if you could give me more info on your transistor clip routine or pictures if you have. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Cabra

[bixter]

Bad news, I just tried the 15 and 56 trick on a dtc100 with 40b. It seemed to work ok, I started to fiddle with the 16:9 option and then everything went blank. Now the receiver wont turn on and only the hd monitor light is lit. I guess something blew.

[Electron]

I would not mess with pin 56 and if you are lifting the pins on the flash chip to do the mod more than likley you
have caused a solder short.

PM me with your email addy and I will send a picture of the only mod needed for the DTC-100 it is proven to work and not cause any other problems.

I uploaded the photo at ID also its called DTC-100.zip

Anyone that wants the photo is welcome to it.

Electron

[Electron]

Also if the HD lite is on and everything else is locked up it is usually an indication that an upgrade attempt was made and you just need to pull the power cord sor a couple of seconds to reset

Electron

[ftwfred]

Originally posted by Indianjohn
No, I did not lift the pin from either chip. I took a cheap soldering iron and put a nice point on it with the bench grinder. I screwed one end of both 30 ga. wires to the ground screw and then taped them in proper position to the top on the nearby chips. I tined the end of each first and then soldered them to the top of the pin where it is soldered to the board. I have one of those neon lights with the glass in the middle so I could see what I was doing. Be careful not to try and use to much solder. It is easy to get more than one pin. I have some pictures if some one wants to post them somewhere. Good luck, it does work.

[Electron]

The only problem is now you have a short from VPP to ground
anytime an update is attempted that will cause problems before long, You should at least cut the collector of the transistor loose from the board


Electron