Starchoice and Exvu

[sonyguy]

Hi all

Can i use my existing starchoice dish to receive bev..I'm getting rid of starchoice and want to get bev...hoping i can save a few buck by only buying the reciever.

Thanks

[qnx22]

The dish should work fine.

[davidnb]

Dish would be okay, but you would need a different LNB.

[sonyguy]

Any idea where I can pick up a new LNB in the Toronto area???

u can go to ur local bell world and buy 1 for around 60 bux or go find some poor suxor and ripp his off. (NOT).. just an idea about bell world

iscream

[PrinceLH]

Why would you trade Choice for Bell? I went the other route a year ago. I used a Bell 24" dish and added a linear LNBF for Choice. I hated Bell, because of their unneccessary Hockey Blackouts and their ridiculous menu's. If it's for hacking? Go for it! For quality, I'll take Choice over Expresspuke every time!

[fastbreak]

Originally posted by PrinceLH
Why would you trade Choice for Bell? I went the other route a year ago. I used a Bell 24" dish and added a linear LNBF for Choice. I hated Bell, because of their unneccessary Hockey Blackouts and their ridiculous menu's. If it's for hacking? Go for it! For quality, I'll take Choice over Expresspuke every time!

Reasons to get BEV over *C:

1) NHL Center Ice
2) English League Soccer Season Package

No picture quality/customer service/pricing advantage can make up for lack of certain programs.

[Leetch66]

Hmmm...true enough if you overlook the 100 + channel advantage because of dual sat and oddles of bandwidth this fall from Star Choice .

[fastbreak]

Originally posted by Leetch66
Hmmm...true enough if you overlook the 100 + channel advantage because of dual sat and oddles of bandwidth this fall from Star Choice .

The 100 channels aren't giving me Penguins vs Flyers, Avalanche vs Stars, Caps vs Devils, Manchester United vs Arsenal, Liverpool vs Chelsea, are they?

These are games ONLY available on BEV. The hockey games are not carried by any Canadian OTA channels, thus blackout isn't even an issue. *C can add 1000 channels but still can't get these American-televised games.

[davidnb]

Sc will not have a 100 channel advantage this fall, not even close. The only transponders they will be using on Anik2 are 6 west and 6 east and all french programming are being changed to Anik2.
I have a SC myself, not trying to start a flame, just correcting the facts.

[Leetch66]

OK , a hundred was a little extreme . :) But they will have more !

BTW...if you are in the US of A and buying BELL for hockey then you can expect trouble eventually because of no phone connection . Plus thousands of Canadians are twinning up[activating 2-3 receivers under one name and having all 3 at different locations , a REAL BIG thing going on up here in Canada] with their neighbors and splitting the costs of this package. Buyer beware ! It happens with the DTV and CI package because they are required to enforce the phoneline connection for major league sport packages .

I always had to buy a new card yearly in order to renew CI on DTV . Bell will soon have to enforce it too . It's just a matter of time and more money in their coffers because of the twinning factor .

Heck ya...if there is programming on one and not the other that you want , then you would be stupid not to buy that one . I agree 100% with ya on that . Buy the one that suits your needs .

Having 300 + hockey games for 14-15 US/mth included in the regular packaging and sports pack on Star Choice is also a big selling point . Throw in the Nets[Seattle/Spokane/Buffalo/Detroit] , Football , Baseball , Basketball , and other stuff and it's one good deal . Plus more great sports ch's are the Score and TSN .

I'm also going to play with my 75 cm Elliptical dish so that I can modify[add DTV LNB] it to obtain DTV services on it , thus ridding myself of rainfade and another dish on the house . I have to wait until 7 ft of snow melts first though . :)

[fastbreak]

Starchoice's selling point is NOT programming. There is hardly a program on StarChoice that you can't get on BEV, unless all you want is Buffalo/Detroit/Spokane local news, or a Korean audio channel. On the other hand, there are lots of programs that you can get on BEV but can't get on *C.

*C's advantage is its larger footprint, i.e. it can sell to someone living in southern Mexico or Central America. For people living in Canada and U.S., there isn't any advantage.

Of course, if you are only interested in Canadian hockey teams, you can get their games cheaper (because the OTA broadcasts are not blacked out), but that's about it.

In essense, *C is a subset of BEV.

This is as opposed to the different directions DTV and Dish take. DTV is the major American sports system, while Dish is the ethnic and foreign sports system. Each system has a niche to serve its target market.

[Leetch66]

True enough that Bell has a few more "Video" channels at the moment , but most are just extra PPV movies and CI channels . What are the channels not on Star Choice that you say are on Bell other than PPV and Sports Packaging ?

There are 25 new Category 1 channels coming this summer that are a MUST CARRY for the satellite companies . Plus there are another 262 new Category 2's optional carry channels schedlued for this fall . It's rumoured only about 60-75 will be ready and feasable enough for fall carriage .

I have been reading at kusat forum that after Bell adds the 25 Category 1 channels that they are essentially out of room with one bird and limited bandwidth and will have to overcomress the crap out of their existing line-up in order to stay with Star Choice because of their bandwidth advantage .

When the talks were on-going with the CRTC over new licences being issued Bell was pleading it's case[lack of bandwidth] whereas Star Choice was all for as many as possible . Why do you think that was ??? Why do you think BCE tryed to reneg on it's deal over leasing transponders to Star Choice[which Star Choice won BTW] ?

Oh... BTW those Niche Sports Packages are not an exclusive for Bell...the CRTC does not allow it . Star Choice can still add it if they so choose .

All in all it is nice that they both will offer different things . Not everyone likes total sports . A lot like the niche channels...and the Category 2's are full of them . The complete list is available at the CRTC website .

[fastbreak]

So as of now, in April 2001, StarChoice is still behind BEV in terms of programming. The only ***potential*** advantage *C has are the 60-70 category 2 channels coming later this year, which may or may not happen. And it may or may not be a *C advantage, since BEV may also carry them on another satellite.

And if you choose *C now for channel X, but

1) channel X doesn't exist yet
2) if channel X exists, it's all fair game; BEV may also carry it.

There are too many unknowns to choose *C over BEV for something that may or may not happen 6 months from now.

[Leetch66]

LOL...whatever you think . Oh...BTW ,the channel count was listed over at kusat forum and Bell is now behind in overall count . But who cares right ? :) Both systems have their merits . I just like the 300 games and no blackouts and you like CI for a couple of hundred bucks . I can understand that . I like Dolby Pro Logic on Star Choice instead of Musicam format that Bell uses on most models .

[davidnb]

To compare channels at the moment would be hard. Do you count all the PPV channels, and all the audio only channels.
And now both sc and bev acrry multi channels of the same network for time shifting, the list goes on. But, SC has got more room to add future channels coming later this fall. Until BEv gets a new satellite launched in a couple of years SC will carry a big adavtange over them. If your choice comes down to most channels, then go with SC, for sure. The only adavangte BEV has is the CI package.

[PrinceLH]

If you don't want to spend $200.00 for Centre Ice, you can still get lots of over the air hockey on Choice. Bell blacks out A Channel, Edmonton, VTV, Vancouver, CFTO/CKVR, Toronto, CHRO, Ottawa. Unless you insist on watching all U.S. based games, why pay those intimidators at Expresspuke anything? They'll just use the extra cash to harass more small DSS dealers in Canada.

[CalgarySat]

By the time BEV has a new bird launched *C will have Anik F3 launched and move F2 from 107.3 to 111.1 so they will have 2 new sats up there. Right now BEV may be ahead (or not, depending on your opinion) but in a couple of years, *C will be WAY ahead of anything BEV could even dream of. Only reason I know anything about *C and BEV is because I installed them for quite some time. Personally, I like *C receivers better; better menus and options, but that's my opinion.

[fastbreak]

People choose a system based on programming lots of time (e.g. buy DirecTV because of Sports, buy Dish because of Superstations or ethnic channels), but very few people will make such a choice based on the future, not the present.

*C may have lots of channels in the future, but what are these channels? how do you know, by April 2001, that this channel will be exclusive on *C? and how do you know you want this channel?

If you buy *C in April 2002 because they carry channels X, Y and Z while BEV doesn't, then it make sense.

As of April 2001, people defending their choices on *C are based on pure speculations.

[Leetch66]

I dunno about that . You can buy a Choice system for 149.00 + tax CDN plus get a 100 buck Program credit and a 75 cm Elliptical dish to boot with 2 stacked lnb's versus 299.00+taxes for Bell . No future upgrade costs is good for consumer buying Star Choice . Why pay more if you don't want CI and soccer PPV's for less desireable hardware when the rest of the channel lineup is 95 % identical ?

I know what you are saying Fastbreak but after the CI package and soccer packs the lineups are virtually identical and I believe Star Choice is about to increase their PPV offering too . Not everyone[but some like Fastbreak do, which is great] wants to pay 235.00taxes in , more for hockey , when they can get 300+ games in the small packages on Star Choice thus avoiding Bell's blackouts unless you buy CI . Yes it's true...unless you buy CI on Bell you will get a lot of games blacked out and if you buy CI on Bell you will still have to watch/listen to some games in FRENCH , I know that for a fact .

Plus you will need a phoneline connection for the hockey and PPV very soon because of some behind the scenes going-ons up here , so that hurts the US business . US providers and CI will enforce this big-time this fall . Watch out . DTV did the same a couple of years ago to Canadians .

A lot of people do rave about the Bell 6000 receiver and their HDTV lineup versus Star Choice .

The future for Star Choice is only 6 mths away with the new Cat 2 channels . Not that long a wait ! :) They are avaiable on the CRTC website if anyone is interested in checking them out . 262 of them as possibilities is quite tempting for a 6 mth wait . Don't expect all to make it though . But at least Star Choice will be able to handle more because they don't have 10 channels being used for CI . Some great niche prgramming for folks from all walks of life .

BTW Fastbreak...you still have not listed the channels on Bell that Sta Choice does not have . Other than PPV CI and soccer . What are they ? I'm sure many are interested . BTW , only 5 % of Bell's sub base buy CI . Bell had a big advantage for 18 mths with their new bird Nimiq but now Star Choice is on a level playing field and is fast tracking in the sub count and yesterday we were informed of a possible hardware shortage because of demand for the Elliptical dish .

[fastbreak]

I'll worry about it when BEV actually REQUIRES a phone line for the sports package. Till then, it's idle speculation again. I would say BEV will NOT require the phone line. So it's your speculation vs mine.

You want the list of channels that BEV has that *C doesn't have? easy, CI and English soccer. That's something you absolutely cannot argue.

OK, what's the channel that *C has that BEV doesn't have? Notice the present tense, not the future tense.

Notice your *C argument is all about speculating the future. BEV "will" require the phoneline, *C "will" have more channels in 6 months, etc. That's about as shaky a business argument as you can get.

[CalgarySat]

I myself prefer *C (as you could probably guess from my last post) but as far as installing goes, good god!! *C is the biggest pain in a$$ ever with the new dual lnb ellipticals. I've installed sats for over a year now and can do a DTV in about an hour (start to finish with tweaking the signal). The first time I put in a new *C dual it took me 4 freakin hours. And I have even gone to an installations seminar put on by Marc Nadeau (one of the head tech guys at *C). That was back in December when I put my first one in and now I've got it down to about 1 1/2 hrs, but they're still a pain to install.

[Leetch66]

It won't be Bell pushing for the phone connection Fastbreak . It will be the NHL and CI . It is part of the terms and conditions of the licence that Bell was granted for being able to sell CI . It was overlooked with DTV the first couple of years and then it was enforced with phonechecks upon renewal of the package . DTV will not renew a CI sub unless you get a new card every year , that's how it is for us Canucks who want DTV sports packages . DTV and the NHL will enforce this because of blackout rules and rights of other broadcasters . Bellwill have no choice but to do the same . Sorry , but don't shoot the messenger .

I alread know Bell has CI and soccer . I said that in my post . You said they had more channels other than that . But you can't list them . Well it really does not matter because they are only minute locals anyways . The same thing goes with Star Choice...they have more Music channels and more locals and a better audio format, DPL on most receivers versus Musicam offered by Bell , no big deal , unless you want 300+ games and less blackouts without paying 199 and tax for hockey and if you don't want to pay 199 and like hockey and buy Bell , then you lose out yet again with Bells blackouts bcause of CI rules .

I think that if you want the CI and Soccer Pak that you made the proper decison in your case . Mind you not all want 800 + hockey games and they should then buy Star Choice if they like hockey but are not totally enthralled with it because they will receive 300+ games and less blackouts . I think it's a very viable option .

I hope that explains my point of view a little more clearly for you . It's not a slam against Bell or you for your decision on buying it . But calling Star Choice a lesser Bell is just totally ridiculous statement that you fail to back up with any facts other than that "you" bought it ! You are in the 5 % market . That leaves 95 % who didn't buy CI . A year ago things were different , everyone knows that , with Bell having their new bird and a headstart on subs . Well Fastbreak Choice has a new one now too with lot of power for those places where Bell can't reach and they have added the channels that were missing , that Bell had first because of their new bird .

It's certainly fun . Things could get real interesting this fall . Bell is looking over their shoulder now . They are also coming up with some incentives to keep existing customers from switching to STar Choice . That's their biggest concern right now other than killing small independents in court over selling Grey/Black market systems .

Oh yeah I forgot that they were involved in a big porn scandal here recently and were chastized for showing illegal porn and bondage films without approval . They have since removed the programmng on those two channels . I believe it has been replaced with some softer stuff so I read over on the Canadian forums where you should really pay a visit to keep up to date on current events on Canadian satellite since you now own one .

BTW...can't you get that soccer you watch on DTV ? That's pretty cool if a Canadian system has niche sports that DTV does not . Sorry , I'm not familiar with soccer programming options . C ya . :)

[Leetch66]

Originally posted by CalgarySat
I myself prefer *C (as you could probably guess from my last post) but as far as installing goes, good god!! *C is the biggest pain in a$$ ever with the new dual lnb ellipticals. I've installed sats for over a year now and can do a DTV in about an hour (start to finish with tweaking the signal). The first time I put in a new *C dual it took me 4 freakin hours. And I have even gone to an installations seminar put on by Marc Nadeau (one of the head tech guys at *C). That was back in December when I put my first one in and now I've got it down to about 1 1/2 hrs, but they're still a pain to install.

LOL@Calgary , good God man you should be gaining speed by now on those installs . My installer does them in an hour or less and that's with 75 cm ellipticals and not the 60's . The first few were slow but now with the new bird and a channel check available on the 2nd sat it is much faster . Just where exactly are you being bogged down ? Are you using a GOOD compass and digisat meter ? Maybe your installs are just more complex for starters than ours because of dish rotation and tilt because of location . I think we are a ways apart in distance . :)

I do believe Fastbreak made the right decision on buying Bell since he loves hockey and CI . But like you and I we choose the other more viable option that best suited us , 300+ hockey games and virtually the same line-up as Bell with the bandwidth available for many more additions of the new Cat 2 channels available this fall . I can't wait for the Toronto Maple Leaf channel . :)

It's all about bandwidth in the satellite game and Star Choice has more than Bell now . [Thanks for that line MRVH, if you are reading ] That's a fact !

[fastbreak]

Originally posted by Leetch66
It won't be Bell pushing for the phone connection Fastbreak . It will be the NHL and CI . It is part of the terms and conditions of the licence that Bell was granted for being able to sell CI . It was overlooked with DTV the first couple of years and then it was enforced with phonechecks upon renewal of the package . DTV will not renew a CI sub unless you get a new card every year , that's how it is for us Canucks who want DTV sports packages . DTV and the NHL will enforce this because of blackout rules and rights of other broadcasters . Bellwill have no choice but to do the same . Sorry , but don't shoot the messenger .


I'll believe it when I see it. As of now, the phone line has NOT been enforced, so your "advantage" here is still speculation.

Besides, even if the phone line is enforced, so what? Canadians have no problem plugging the phone line in. So why does it matter?

Even if CI is not available to the Yanks, CI is still fully available to the Canucks, thus BEV provide more choice for the Canucks, true or false?


I alread know Bell has CI and soccer . I said that in my post .

That's the big advantages I emphasize on. Your already conceded that, so why bother to argue?


You said they had more channels other than that .

OK, cite where I said they had more channels other than that. I can't wait.


But you can't list them .


I'll worry about it after you cite I "said they had more channels other than that (English soccer and CI)".


Well it really does not matter because they are only minute locals anyways . The same thing goes with Star Choice...they have more Music channels and more locals and a better audio format, DPL on most receivers versus Musicam offered by Bell , no big deal , unless you want 300+ games and less blackouts without paying 199 and tax for hockey and if you don't want to pay 199 and like hockey and buy Bell , then you lose out yet again with Bells blackouts bcause of CI rules .


Why is that a lose out? It means a BEV sub CAN pay $199 for more than 300 games, which you absolutely cannot do with *C even if you are willing to pay $999, true or false? There is no freaking way you can watch a Caps vs Hurricanes or Stars vs Kings on a Saturday evening on *C, no matter how much you want to pay.

Guess what? How important are the music audio channels as compared to hockey to Canadians? Besides, I am not even sure *C has more audio channels. Check out KU sat's *C vs BEV comparision. There are four different criteria (count audio channels, count PPV, etc.) BEV won out on 3 of 4.


I think that if you want the CI and Soccer Pak that you made the proper decison in your case . Mind you not all want 800 + hockey games and they should then buy Star Choice if they like hockey but are not totally enthralled with it because they will receive 300+ games and less blackouts . I think it's a very viable option .


That (the cost) is not even the argument. BEV has more choice of programming than *C. More programming may require more $$$, but that's not the issue.

For example, there are two PPV providers. Provider A has 20 movies at $5 a pop, while provider B has 3 movies at $2 a pop. You may not like Provider A's pricing, but you have no way to argue against its inventories.


I hope that explains my point of view a little more clearly for you . It's not a slam against Bell or you for your decision on buying it . But calling Star Choice a lesser Bell is just totally ridiculous statement that you fail to back up with any facts other than that "you" bought it !


Why is that ridiculous? From a programming standpoint, ther e is absolutely no argument unless you have to resort to music channels. It's just like Dish's argument vs DirecTV:
"so what if DirecTV has pro sports, lots of people don't want pro sports."


You are in the 5 % market . That leaves 95 % who didn't buy CI .

I couldn't care less how many people buy CI. This argument is about who provide more CHOICE. This is the same argument about the niche channels in the future. How many people would really buy and watch the "Livestock auction channel", "Watch paint dry channel"? Yet it doesn't stop the *C fans from bragging about the 200+ new channels *C will have in 6 months...


It's certainly fun . Things could get real interesting this fall .


I'll believe it when I see it. Till then, *C is overmatched.


BTW...can't you get that soccer you watch on DTV ? That's pretty cool if a Canadian system has niche sports that DTV does not . Sorry , I'm not familiar with soccer programming options . C ya . :)

DTV doesn't carry English soccer PPV. The matches on BEV are only available on Dish Network, at a much higher price.

[Leetch66]

Golly gee whiz you are right , I forgot , Bell has the cow channel already ! That's a big advantage ! :) Let's mooooooove on .

[Andrew8468]

I was all ready to make some cow jokes but the 300 "free" NHL games on SC is now down to 280 since A-Channel will only be carrying 10 games OTA next season. And they aren't really free because you are still paying for them in your subscription.

[davidnb]

Originally posted by Andrew8468
I was all ready to make some cow jokes but the 300 "free" NHL games on SC is now down to 280 since A-Channel will only be carrying 10 games OTA next season. And they aren't really free because you are still paying for them in your subscription.

SC currently has 300+ hockey games, infact the current number is 347 games this year. So the statement of 300+ games still holds true for this year and next.

[everyday_jay]

bell
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A subscription to TMN is required to order Playboy





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Star Choice info channel 299
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looks like the line ups are all the same people .... the only difference is bell has ci and those racing and soccer channels ..... and bell has more ppv .... now if u seriously think bell will let starchoice get the jump on them over total number of channels then that is mistake ... they have too much money and too much of total control over the government plus let's not forget the sd channel and hdtv channel plus the extra tmn that is in sd/hdtv as apposed to star's one and only hdtv channel

i hope this stops all the bickering back and forth ... i say go for what u want ... go with the big boy or small timer .... but for the extras bell has more and let's not forget the dish internet crap they can provide except for the stupid extra isp u need to use it ...

[Leetch66]

Big Boy ? You mean the phone company who only have one satellite ? No plans announced either for a second sat . Plus their bandwidth is pretty well maxed , especially with the mandatory cat 1 channels they must carry . Star Choice already has their 2nd new sat under construction . Bell might have to rent one of the ancient ex Echo sats to try and stay on par with Star Choice who also feed most of the cable companies in Canada .

Plus there is a lot of upset people on the Canadian forums because of the 4700 model and problems with DD and the Movie Networks . BEV won't admit they have big a hardware problem on their hands . Then again , their equipment comes from Charlie . I read also they think they are having the same problems with their 6000 HDTV model and pixelation while using DD . That's what one of their techs told a sub who was having probs with the 4700 model and Dolby Digital . LOL , they actually told him to shut off the DD and use just Pro Logic . Now is that not a great answer for someone who buys their [better ?] model ? I don't think so !

Many have stated in the past that General Instruments/Motorola make far superior hardware . Star Choice made the right decision choosing them over Echo . At least that seems to be the general concensus on the Canadian forums these days .