What stance should end users take?

[einstein99]

Most of us here have purchased hobbist (testing) materials from Canada and US based sources. If we should receive a letter from DTV (warranted or unwarranted) how should we react? Its my understanding that substantial evidence is required for a search warrant.

[Lager]

Throw it in the trash. You are right, them just having your name on a list is not nearly enough to get any kind of warrant. If they try to send you something certified just refuse to accept it. You have the ability to look at the letter before you agree to sign for it.

Lager

[einstein99]

It's my understanding that buying/owning an iso interface programmer by itself is legal as it can be used for other purposes. It's also my understanding that buying/owning an unflashed unlooper in canada is also legal. There is no evidence to allow for any legal action on this basis. that is why they have to set up sting operations just like a drug deal to obtain a search warrant. I think it is important to understand that you have to incriminate yourself or get caught in the process of commiting a crime for any legal action to result. Although that would not stop DTV filing a civil suit for spurious reasons.

[Steve747]

Directv may be getting themselves into hot water by sending out these letters. They are accusing you of committing a crime for which they have no evidence other than your mailing address on someones else's computer. No judge in his right mind would ever issue a search warrant based on this evidence. All it will take is someone with a sharp lawyer to sue Directv for any number of reasons. The best advice if you receive this letter is to throw it away. They have no authority to force you to respond to it in any way. This is only a scare tactic.

[captainAl]

i agree.. if you get a letter, just file it and forget it....

as far ascertified mail goes, i know i once got a certified letter to appear in court to face charges of not paying the full rent from my landlord (we reduced the rent due to some flood damages), and i just avoided the mailman... but i was later told that if i didnt appear in court, i'd forfeit my case even though i never got the certified letter....

just my 2 cents... but directv wouldn't send certifed letters....

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

Yo are all quite correct an what DirecTV® does have serves as no evidence at all. They have presente false invoices in my case in the legal action they took for 19 million dollars against me. We have submitte an affidavit showing that this information is counterfeit an manufactured by them and is NOT in any way real evidence of anything.

Furthermore whatever they have is totally inaccurate an is STOLEN property.

Much of it consists of people who inquired and NEVER purchase , people who sent in another persons name an all types of phony an irrelevant info that is NOT evidence. They do not have a SINGLE INVOICE of Vcipher an everything they have is completely false, erroneous an BOOBY TRAPPED info in case some BOOBY like them obtained in by theft or by "receiving stolen property." This info which they got by "dirty hands" is not acceptable to any court and cannot be proven as it is in FACT totally COUNTERFEIT.

Anyone who admits to anything they say using this info as supposed "Evidence" is NUTS.

Challenge the venue (as they wrongfully sue in California), Challenge the evidence as its counterfeit an there is NO way any of this kaka will fly. Yo may ignore letters shoud yo choose but DO NOT ignore any proper court papers they send. Respond to them (if they send any) by a challenge as above as yo r first action. It wont get past those challenges.

ADMIT to their evidence and yo are probably admitting to something that is totally incorrect an that is completely foolish.

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/niceday.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,
[ttrkmailname]


[red]Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth![/color][/size]
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/bllrbanner.gif
Now open with lots of useful reso rces at yo r disposal AT:
http://www.legal-rights.org

Please DONATE for the SUPREME COURT BATTLE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)

[spawn1]

if you get a letter from them though all your questionable stuff in the sewer then they cant prove nothing and refuse the letter and subscribe after that it will get thrown out then sue them back for stress/paraniod etc etc.

[To The Real King!!]

Hi Guys,

Here is an example of the type of LIAR and idiots they are. Dave made a press release and I posted it on legal rights with comments. Do the math of 100,000 letters they want to send at 1000 a month and the info will be 14 years old by the time the last letters are sent. What total idiots these folks arehttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

Check the post at

http://www.legal-rights.org/dtvliesagain.html

http://www.legal-rights.org/images/niceday.gif

Thanks & Good Luck,
[ttrkmailname]


[red]Freedom has nothing to fear from the truth![/color][/size]
http://www.legal-rights.org/images/bllrbanner.gif
Now open with lots of useful resources at your disposal AT:
http://www.legal-rights.org

Please DONATE for the SUPREME COURT BATTLE (http://www.legal-rights.org/donation.html)
.

[einstein99]

Well said TTRK,

DTV is desperate at this point. But the fact of the matter is they are trying to force people thru threat and intimidation to stop pirating their signal. If someone gets a letter from them the prudent thing would be to strongly deny any wrongdoing. Anyone selling/programming cards in the US is putting themselves at risk. The ironic thing about it was the idiots at DTV claiming "Game Over" after black sunday, It might be game over for them if they dont get their signal integrity under control. Certainly it's getting more interesting.

From just comming having my ass racked over the coals in California, take the letters seriously.

DTV did NOT lose the case in California, the lost the RICO Counts... All that is was the ability to count all the people as one! They still have individual cases against all of us. We settled. With the evidence presented to us, of invoices, shipping manifests, video and phone tapes and most importantly a former employee of VCipher.

I was not going to risk going to trial!

Do as you like, but consult a lawyer.[quote]

Yes folks DO CONSULT a LAWYER. But what Dave here is NOT telling you is that he is one of the cowards who signed a deal with Dave because he is too gutless to FIGHT.

If he did something illegal and he considers it better to CO-OPERATE with dave then he got what he deserves. Too dumb to understand they DO NOT have evidence, he was one who CO-OPERATED. Anyone who is dumb enough to do that rather than challenge them gets what he asks for.

Bye the way HE LIES about shipping evidence, tapes or an Employee and he is full of ---- on that. I believe he is really a lawyer with Dave and he should be ignored. But if anyone wants to believe him then be my guest.

Wgere are the RULINGS, the court transcripts etc. All of you know that I post these on legal -rights buut this fool simply makes claims but does NOT even have a court ruling to show for it. Scanners cost $59.00 today so where is that DAVE??

But he wont because it does not exist :)

I just hope that nobody gets sucked in by him and I recommend you all read all the articles on this issue at

http://www.legal-rights.org

Where you will find the TRUTH. Does ANYONE imagine I can say the things I am saying there if it is NOT the truth. they would SUE my ASS if they could but sorry cant sue when the TRUTH is told :)

Byy the way. Notices he registered in Aug 2001 and TODAY is the 5th. How dumb does he think people arehttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif

[Edited by To The Real King!! on August 4th, 2001 at 09:55 PM]

[SammyBoy]

Legal-dave,

You have no one to blame but yourself. You had to know that what you were doing was illegal. You had to decide if the risk was worth the reward. It was your choice, quit whining and blaming others. Take your medicine like a big boy.[Edited by SammyBoy on August 3rd, 2001 at 03:43 PM]

SammyBoy,

I am not trying to place blame anywhere else.. I am trying to warn other people not to listen to Reggies BS! They need to take this ---- seriously!!!!

Originally posted by SammyBoy
Legal-dave,

You have no one to blame but yourself. You had to know that what you were doing was illegal. You had to decide if the risk was worth the reward. It was your choice, quit whining and blaming others. Take you medicine like a big boy.

[quote]

Sure DAVE,

Try and get people to take you publicity seriously so that more cowards like you can cooperate with the enemy.

But those who DID NOT sign got off, they WON and the case is over.

Not too hard to see what a person should do.

Bye the way people I could not care less if someone pleads guilty to something like this guy did. I am ONLY telling you the facts at

http://www.legal-rights.org

So that people do NOT mess up and get raked over the coals for something they have ABSOLUTELY no EVIDENCE on. What they have is FABRICATED and COUNTERFEIT BUT its no skin off my nose whatever some fool and gutless wonder wants to do. I am not even implicated in these bull---- letters. So do as YOU please but at least KNOW the truth. Freedom has NOTHING to fear from the truth.

To The REAL King!! [/quote[

[Edited by To The Real King!! on August 4th, 2001 at 10:07 PM]

[gizzmastr_0]

geez but you only have 6 posts?..just signed up in aug2001?

i agree that the "so-called" evidence contained in the letter is not enough for individual search warrants...not on a large scale(nationwide)maybe once in a localized area...to shock the fear into the rest of us..

if one "was" to sign the letter..it would be an "admittance of guilt" and you may surely need a lawyer then.

[einstein99]

Who the Hell is "reggie"?

Was'nt he one of the Archie comics Characters?

[ed12]

WHAT
repeate after me WHAT
ENGLISH MAN
pl.thks.
you have been RANTING LONG ENOUGH
come clean or SHUT UP
thks
again
my 2%
regards
and the one SHOT I CANT LET GO
DSSMEDIC IE DARTH IE DR7 LEAVE
GO GET A FIX
again
ed

[whistler]

Admit Nothing

Deny Everything

& Demand Proof

[einstein99]

Bin,

I don't know what fantasyland you are living in, but you better realize that no matter what you convince yourself of, there are laws protecting corporate america. If you live in the United States and are receiving their signal illegally or have trafficked in signal theft equipment DTV and the authorities have the right to enter your house, take your property and seize your bank accounts. Also they will tie you up in court and get a judgement against you so the only thing you will own for a while is your sorry butt.

YOU had better take this seriously.

[Ha!Ha!]

Einstein -- A law is not a law until a jury says it's a law -- in the USA, anyway. Juries love to kick big corporatons asses these days.

[Nacman]

Originally posted by Legal-Dave
From just comming having my ass racked over the coals in California, take the letters seriously.

DTV did NOT lose the case in California, the lost the RICO Counts... All that is was the ability to count all the people as one! They still have individual cases against all of us. We settled. With the evidence presented to us, of invoices, shipping manifests, video and phone tapes and most importantly a former employee of VCipher.

I was not going to risk going to trial!

Do as you like, but consult a lawyer.

FYI RICO is not as you described. No offense, but in matters of law you should not state that which you don't know is absolutely correct.

The RICO act (RACKETEER INFLUENCED AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS) was enacted to fight organizations that specifically engage in racketeering activity which is defined as:

(A) any act or threat involving murder, kidnapping, gambling, arson, robbery, bribery, extortion, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled
substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year;

(B) any act which is indictable under any of the following provisions of title 18, United States Code: Section 201 (relating to bribery),section 224 (relating to sports bribery), sections 471, 472, and 473 (relating to counterfeiting), section 659 (relating to theft from interstate shipment) if the act indictable under section 659 is felonious, section 664 (relating to embezzlement from pension and welfare funds), sections 891-894 (relating to extortionate credit transactions), section 1028 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents), section 1029 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with access devices), section 1084 (relating to the transmission of gambling information), section 1341 (relating to mail fraud),
section 1343 (relating to wire fraud), section 1344 (relating to financial institution fraud), section 1425 (relating to the procurement of citizenship or nationalization unlawfully), section 1426 (relating to the reproduction of naturalization or citizenship papers), section 1427 (relating to the sale of naturalization or citizenship papers), sections 1461-1465(relating to obscene matter), section 1503 (relating to obstruction of justice), section 1510 (relating to obstruction of criminal investigations), section 1511 (relating to the obstruction of State or local law enforcement), section 1512(relating to tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant),
section 1513 (relating to retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1542 (relating to false statement in application and use of passport), section 1543 (relating to forgery or false use of passport), section 1544 (relating to misuse of passport), section 1546 (relating to fraud and misuse of visas, permits, and other documents), sections 1581-1588 (relating to peonage and slavery), section 1951 (relating to interference with commerce, robbery, or extortion), section 1952 (relating to racketeering), section 1953 (relating to interstate transportation of wagering paraphernalia), section 1954 (relating to unlawful welfare fund payments), section 1955 (relating to the prohibition of illegal gambling businesses), section 1956 (relating to the laundering of monetary instruments), section 1957 (relating to engaging in monetary transactions in property derived from specified unlawful activity), section 1958 (relating to use of interstate commerce facilities in the commission of
murder-for-hire), sections 2251, 2251A, 2252, and 2260 (relating to ---ual exploitation of children), sections 2312 and 2313 (relating to interstate transportation of stolen motor vehicles),sections 2314 and 2315 (relating to interstate transportation of

stolen property), section 2318 (relating to trafficking in
counterfeit labels for phonorecords, computer programs or
computer program documentation or packaging and copies of motion pictures or other audiovisual works), section 2319 (relating to criminal infringement of a copyright), section 2319A (relating to unauthorized fixation of and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos of live musical performances), section 2320 (relating to trafficking in goods or services bearing counterfeit marks), section 2321 (relating to trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts), sections 2341-2346 (relating to trafficking in contraband cigarettes), sections 2421-24 (relating to white slave traffic),

(C) any act which is indictable under title 29, United States Code, section 186 (dealing with restrictions on payments and loans to labor organizations) or section 501(c) (relating to embezzlement from union funds),

(D) any offense involving fraud connected with a case under title 11 (except a case under section 157 of this title), fraud in the sale of securities, or the felonious manufacture, importation, receiving, concealment, buying, selling, or otherwise dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), punishable under any law
of the United States,

(E) any act which is indictable under the Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act, or

(F) any act which is indictable under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 274 (relating to bringing in and harboring certain aliens), section 277 (relating to aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter the United States), or section 278 (relating to importation of alien for immoral purpose) if the act indictable under such section of such Act was committed for the purpose of financial gain.


RICO is used PRIMARILY against mob type organizations, but is somewhat used in other non-organized types of situations.

Circumstantial evidence is just what it is, circumstantial. Individuals should become familiar with the difference between it and physical evidence and how that applies to the application and granting of search warrants or arrest warrants.

Einstein99,

Reggie, as you ask is the person that I beleive cooperated with DTV and the US Govm. on the California 80 Case, which I was a part of.

He is Reginald Scullion, Reggie, Owner of VCipher, Owner of the Legal-Rights.Org Web-Site, and many other corporations he has used in the past. He is the largest known supplier of pirate DTV and C-Band merchandise in the Northern hemisphere. He is the person named, along with his wife in the California suite. His daughter Tamara runs his web site (do a who-is lookup on the internet)

He comfortably lives in Canada, and loves to downplay his role. His intentions to FREE the Canadians was never the issue, it was to sell the Americans product! And he made Millions! So he can get off his high horse of Canadian Politics... Why did he then ship stuff to the us??

Yes, it is MY fault for what I bought.. I was a opporunist! Arent all americans? Hell that's why we live here with our laws and Canadians choose to live there.

Originally posted by einstein99
Who the Hell is "reggie"?

Was'nt he one of the Archie comics Characters?




Gee Dave,

Look around. Nobody believes your cowardly lies here. 10 posts and joined in Aug 2001, the last 5 days.

Try and get people to take your publicity campaign seriously so that more cowards like you can cooperate with the enemy. But I dont think ANY will because most have PRINCIPLE and are not like you. Just READ the posts here :)

But those who DID NOT sign got off, they WON and the case is over. That is how they handled it

Not too hard to see what a person should do.

Bye the way people, I could not care less if someone pleads guilty to something like this guy did. I am ONLY telling you the facts at

http://www.legal-rights.org

So that people do NOT mess up and get raked over the coals for something they have ABSOLUTELY no EVIDENCE on. What they have is FABRICATED and COUNTERFEIT BUT its no skin off my nose whatever some fool and gutless wonder wants to do. I am not even implicated in these bull---- letters. So do as YOU please but at least KNOW the truth. Freedom has NOTHING to fear from the truth.

And as YOU well know Dave TV, I have spent 3 YEARS stating that and assisting people, not three DAYS.

To The REAL King!! I think you are ahttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/hiena.jpg[Edited by To The Real King!! on August 4th, 2001 at 10:16 PM]

You say it isnt illegal to buy a scanner and listen to police chases... You are right.. Modify that same scanner to receive Cellular Phone calls and get caught, you are going to Jail!

Who do you blame now, the Cellular Companies?

Originally posted by Bin
dtv is making plenty of proffit at such a degree that they may be losing money but in no way are they going under I mean who isn't losing money nowadays .The way I see it people purchased the equipment sold by dtv unlike cable. The people own this equipment and they have nothing coming from the street to their house that has anything to do with dtv. We also are suppose to have a free airspace above our homes to fly kites throw baseballs and whatever. It is not illegal to look up and watch the planes go bye or watch the neighbor fly his kite even the eagle gets to fly free through the sky so how do they figure anyne is doing anything illegal the way I see it it should be dtv's job to fix the problem on their end .We can go out and buy a scanner and listen to the police ,ambulances etc. it is coming through the same airspace . So what is the big deal did our tax dollars have nothing to do with putting those satellites in the sky and if the airspace is not free then I think they should pay us for using it their signal is coming accross our land.This is my 1st post but I mean what I say we should all go together and make the satellite companies pay for using our airspace if it isn't free and we have proof on them[Edited by Bin on August 4th, 2001 at 06:28 AM]

I guess the Canadians dont deal with it, but we have to!

The IRS comes in, takes your house, money, bank accounts and then ask if you did anything wrong... This is America... WAKE UP! You take the Good with the BAD, and there are alot of BOTH!

Dont play down the letters!!!!!! The are not playing!!

Originally posted by einstein99
Bin,

I don't know what fantasyland you are living in, but you better realize that no matter what you convince yourself of, there are laws protecting corporate america. If you live in the United States and are receiving their signal illegally or have trafficked in signal theft equipment DTV and the authorities have the right to enter your house, take your property and seize your bank accounts. Also they will tie you up in court and get a judgement against you so the only thing you will own for a while is your sorry butt.

YOU had better take this seriously.

[gizzmastr_0]

just remember..."plausible deniability" works great for the government...statements like "ohh...i didnt know" and "thats illegal"...or the best..."im trying to start a career in smartcard security,this is all research data and educational equipment"...stick to your guns and who knows..you might end up suing them for defamation! :)

[einstein99]

Seems like a no-brainer to me, if you want to do business (dss) move to Canada, Anyone doing this in the US (land of the free)(sic) you are taking a big risk. Also end users better stop bragging. This "hobby" is starting to get very ugly!

[To The Real King!!]

Originally posted by Legal-Dave
[B]From just comming having my ass racked over the coals in California, take the letters seriously.

DTV did NOT lose the case in California, the lost the RICO Counts... All that is was the ability to count all the people as one! They still have individual cases against all of us. We settled. With the evidence presented to us, of invoices, shipping manifests, video and phone tapes and most importantly a former employee of VCipher.

I was not going to risk going to trial!

Do as you like, but consult a lawyer.

[quote]

Yes folks DO CONSULT a LAWYER. But what Legal-Dave here is NOT telling you is that he is one of the cowards who signed a deal with Dave because he is too gutless to FIGHT. He did not "get" it up the ass he actually inserted it up HIS ass himself :)

I suspect he may like it that way.

If he did something illegal and he considers it better to CO-OPERATE with Dave and sign an An Landers Confession, then he got what he deserves. Too dumb to understand they DO NOT have evidence, he was one who CO-OPERATED and confessed. Anyone who is dumb enough to do that rather than challenge them gets what he asks for in Spades.

The posers HERE know what to do and many of them are RIGHT on the MARK. But among the best advice is whistler when he says [quote]
Admit Nothing

Deny Everything

& Demand Proof

and that is PRECISELY what should be done. Challenge their supposed evidence and they CANNOT come up with the answer to WHERE THEY GOT IT, IS IT STOLEN and PROVE ITS REAL. It is stolen, they got it illegally and it is BOOBYTRAPPED and NORT REAL. Bye the way HE LIES about shipping evidence, tapes or an Employee and he is full of ---- on that. I believe he is really a lawyer with Dave and he should be ignored. But if anyone wants to believe him then be my guest.

Were are the RULINGS, the court transcripts etc. All of you know that I post these on legal -rights but this fool simply makes claims but does NOT even have a court ruling to show for it. Scanners cost $59.00 today so where is that DAVE??

But he wont because it does not exist :)

I just hope that nobody gets sucked in by him and I recommend you all read all the articles on this issue at

http://www.legal-rights.org

Where you will find the TRUTH. Does ANYONE imagine I can say the things I am saying there if it is NOT the truth. They would SUE my ASS if they could but sorry cant sue when the TRUTH is told :)

By the way. Notice he registered in Aug 2001 and TODAY is the 5th. How dumb does he think people arehttp://www.legal-rights.org/images/ttrk.gif[Edited by To The Real King!! on August 4th, 2001 at 10:26 PM]

[gunsmoke2]

Does anyone get the feeling lately that certain newbies of late have shown up and have intentionally taken our challenge to the Supreme Court of Canada out of the discussions.. attacking TTRK and have one doing the same at another forum to me.

WELL SCREW OFF !!

WE NEEDS FUNDS ASAP OR THERE WILL BE NO FIGHT AND THIS SITE WILL GO AND SO WILL THE DISCUSSIONS

THE ONLY REAL IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION IS THE CHALLENGE AT THE SUPREME COURT IF WE CAN'T GET THERE. WE ARE $75,000 SHORT AND NEED THE FUNDS BY SIX WEEKS

GS2

[einstein99]

^

[gizzmastr_0]

there is definately an increase in "GREMLINS"....as of late..it would seem they are in many forums..mostly pushing bad advice that stands a 95% chance of looping a card...not to mention the fear factor that is trying to be produced...not saying one should be un-afraid..just "dont be"...un-aware.